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It would be less annoying for the Necron player if they just had a sort of FNP save. Besides that looks good.

The Obelisk is more points than the Lord of Skulls or Magnus! Looking forward to seeing it rules.

It's both worse and better. Worse because it can be negated and losses impact the morale.
Better because if you fail the role, you can try again in the following turns, and regain your warrior. A necron unit is always dangerous, even with a single model left.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes, the overlord/zhandrek/CCB buff allows tesla to trigger on 5+.

Eyjio wrote:
It's a worse version of FNP, or "Disgusting Resilience" which Plague Marines get, because those ones can't be denied; if you wipe the unit, RP is never rolled. It's pretty good, but nowhere near OP.

But FNP is once and a deal. You botch it, you are dead.

WBB you fail it, you can still come back.

(not to mention how useful repositioning of dead models can be...)

 Mr Morden wrote:
No its not "worse" - its different

DR allows you to ignore wounds, RP allows you to bring back dead models apparently ove mutiple turns

With respect, I'm sticking with worse. There are not many multi-wound models in the necron army currently, and those that are tend to be too expensive to run in large groups. I'm expecting the same thing to happen as it did in 5th & 6th edition - units are wiped before they can possibly reanimate - in which case it is strictly worse than FNP. The only situation in which it's better is if the opponent rolls really poorly against a super elite unit.

Basically Characters would no longer benefit from WWB/Reanimation Protocols.

It's worse in a purely non-balance sense because it's less fun for both players!

I can't imagine any Necron player I've ever known being annoyed by this system. In fact, I can just picture their grinning faces as they roll above the odds and dump half a unit back into play.....

And some game mechanisms are more for gaming sake than would be logical. Eg resolving armour after wounding. Rolling 19 dice and placing 6 figures back has a psychological impact that fnp just doesn't touch - ignoring potential repositioning shenanegans.

changemod wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
from the OP

Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.

So lets say i have a unit of 20 warriors. At the start of my movement phase there is only 1 warrior left so i roll 19 dice and 6.3=(19*(2/6)) come back? And i can do this every turn so if that unit doesn’t lose models in the next turn of my opponent Another 4.2=(12.7*(2/6)) come back?

Seems a bit OP

Think of it as a mostly weaker version of FNP: You take it later so it's useless for getting to contribute in assault if killed before you can strike, the wounds count against battleshock and you can't take it at all if the unit dies.

Oh and it looks like characters can't reanimate anymore, which is tremendously lame.

Now yes, you get to keep trying each turn, but that's just as annoying for the Necron player as the opponent, because it means long winded book keeping. I can see the reanimation pseudo-phase taking nearly as long as a second shooting phase in some cases.

Honestly reanimation = FNP was the quickest and easiest solution we've ever had, and very neatly covered the confusion of what to do with character reanimation.

Not to mention the fact that the old Reanimation was taken against every wound not death, so thats been lost also

xerxeshavelock wrote:
I can't imagine any Necron player I've ever known being annoyed by this system.

I have more than 11,000 points worth of Necrons, so I guess over 20,000 in the new system, and I am annoyed by this system.

So it's better and worse and OP and trash. Got it!

Doesn't seem that difficult to use. Remember how many were in it at the start, subtract the number still alive and roll. Hardly that complicated

changemod wrote:

xerxeshavelock wrote:
I can't imagine any Necron player I've ever known being annoyed by this system.

I have more than 11,000 points worth of Necrons, so I guess over 20,000 in the new system, and I am annoyed by this system.

But then you've been annoyed by so much it kind of loses any meaning

I'm liking how each faction gets its own spin on morale/durability type mechanics, rather than just copy-pasting the same USRs everywhere. It means they play more like the fluff and can be countered the same way. Before, if a unit was Fearless it was all or nothing, and anything with FNP was only countered with high-strength/ID weapons (even infantry).

Now you have:
Marines are reliable, but not immune to retreating. Apothecaries can patch up guys or even restore important 'dead' ones.
Commissars limit IG losses when present
Necron units need to be fully obliterated or they're still a threat.
Orks won't care about losses unless their numbers are severely whittled down.
Tyranids will fall apart if their synapse units are killed off, but the Hive Mind can focus on a specific unit to keep it going longer (Catalyst).

Eyjio wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
No its not "worse" - its different

DR allows you to ignore wounds, RP allows you to bring back dead models apparently ove mutiple turns

With respect, I'm sticking with worse. There are not many multi-wound models in the necron army currently, and those that are tend to be too expensive to run in large groups. I'm expecting the same thing to happen as it did in 5th & 6th edition - units are wiped before they can possibly reanimate - in which case it is strictly worse than FNP. The only situation in which it's better is if the opponent rolls really poorly against a super elite unit.

Disagree - I remember 5th ed - you had to really try to kill units - especuially large units. Having them cosntantly regnerate is a pain but its a intersting rule and fits the fluff perfectly.

I have 15k of Necrons, and I wouldn't say I'm annoyed at the new system, I just don't think it'll actually do very much in actual games. Fluffy, sure. More demoralising? Maybe. Worse than the 7e version? Absolutely. I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are (seriously though, look at them - it's pathetic) than I am about the change to RP.

So... From all the leaks I've seen so far... Is it safe to assume that dozerblades are dead now?

 xttz wrote:
I'm liking how each faction gets its own spin on morale/durability type mechanics, rather than just copy-pasting the same USRs everywhere. It means they play more like the fluff and can be countered the same way. Before, if a unit was Fearless it was all or nothing, and anything with FNP was only countered with high-strength/ID weapons (even infantry).

Now you have:
Marines are reliable, but not immune to retreating. Apothecaries can patch up guys or even restore important 'dead' ones.
Commissars limit IG losses when present
Necron units need to be fully obliterated or they're still a threat.
Orks won't care about losses unless their numbers are severely whittled down.
Tyranids will fall apart if their synapse units are killed off, but the Hive Mind can focus on a specific unit to keep it going longer (Catalyst).

Agreed - fluff and rules working together should be a nice combination.

Eyjio wrote:
I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are

Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?

Caederes wrote:
I'm just commenting on how crazy - i.e. silly - it seems that a Reaper Chainsword is less likely to hurt an Annihilation Barge than a Boltgun

It's not silly -- it's Quantum!

This is a fantastic piece of work from GW, I think. They're really hitting that 80s/90s retro vibe, when any amount of laziness in writing, worldbuilding, or game design could be hand-waved away just by adding the word "quantum".

I'd say that RP is better long-term, worse short-term.
However given 40k won't last long enough for the long term to really, truly exist... it's probably worse overall.

Not that I'm complain. I liked the old system because of how thematic it is. It's a shame it Characters really aren't affected though...

 xttz wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are

Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?

From 0 to about 83% blocks. 83% on the pretty rare dam6 weapons. More common ones like d3% it's 6++, against d6 ones it's slightly worse than 4++.

xerxeshavelock wrote:
I can't imagine any Necron player I've ever known being annoyed by this system. In fact, I can just picture their grinning faces as they roll above the odds and dump half a unit back into play.....

And some game mechanisms are more for gaming sake than would be logical. Eg resolving armour after wounding. Rolling 19 dice and placing 6 figures back has a psychological impact that fnp just doesn't touch - ignoring potential repositioning shenanegans.

I am a Necron player and i am looking forward to the new RP rules. It is a more unique feature putting models back on the table appeals more to me compared to another save roll. And don't forget about Mortal wounds FnP and IS are useless against mortal wounds.

Reanimation protocols sounds a bit like a lot of the abilities Death has in AoS, which makes sense. I would assume that characters heal wounds instead.

 xttz wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are

Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?

Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.

 Zewrath wrote:
So... From all the leaks I've seen so far... Is it safe to assume that dozerblades are dead now?

Almost all vehicle upgrades are out, or pared down to a very small list of options. Chaos lost Dirge Casters on the LR, warpflame gargoyles, daemonic possession...

fewer options are easier to balance, so rather than give people the old options and work hard to balance them, they've chosen to kill off the choice

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Any traitor legion tactics/chapter tactics leaks?

I don't think we see them on "day one".
In Live FAQ there was annouced that Space Marine Codex will be published later this year and will cover Chapter Tactics rules.
I think the same goes for:
CSM <LEGIONS>
TAU <SEPT>
NECRON <DYNASTY>
and others factions.
You see - everyone will have to buy additional rules for their army

IMHO Indexes will only include points and "vanilla" rules for "day one" release.

Eyjio wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are

Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?

Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.

I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?

Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are

Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?

Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.

I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?

Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.

Umm no. They don't roll at all, automatic 6 damage.

I am seeing no reason to take a Lord of Contagion over Typhus.
As much as I love the traveller (never had a battle without him leading), I was looking forward to using a dude of my own fluff creation.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are

Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?

Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.

I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?

Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.

Plasma guns are damage 2 yes? So 1/3 of those are disregarded if I understood the rules as translated? So you're looking closer to 10 shots again with a plasma gun.

Also while we haven't seen the exact wording of Living Metal, it is meant to restore wounds automatically now and it seems like all Characters and Vehicles have it.
It looks like between RP and Living Metal, if you don't destroy a Necron unit outright, it may be they're restoring lost models/wounds every turn.

 Weazel wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are

Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?

Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.

I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?

Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.

Umm no. They don't roll at all, automatic 6 damage.

Which is negated if the necron player rolls less than 6.
At least we know why variable damage is a thing; its because of quantum shielding.