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 Hulksmash wrote:
12 years is being kind.....I'm just happy I'll get an ending out of the show. I almost want him to just throw up his hands and hand it off to someone like Sanderson to finish off. Granted Sanderson is on his way to working on his own epic fantasy series and so far it feels much better than the entire GoT so far if not just the first 3 books of GoT. And I think the direction it's going it's actually going to be better than GoT by a significant margin.

Either way I won't be buying the next book in the GoT series. You might actually have to pay me to read it if I ever got it for free.

You'll never see Sanderson finish the ASoIF series - his Mormonism probably recoils at the sight of all the liberal sexualities that are scattered through the series. Although, I do agree that the Stormlight Archives, and the Mistborn series (which will expand apparently expand into a modern day equivalent, SWAT based series, and then a sci-fi series) are better. It just reinforces the belief I've had, that the ASoIF books were a mediocre series that would have faded into unfinished obscurity, had someone at HBO not decided to use it for a show.

Ah, Martin's book series was quite popular long before HBO picked it up - I don't think it would have faded into obscurity without a TV series...

 Alpharius wrote:
Ah, Martin's book series was quite popular long before HBO picked it up - I don't think it would have faded into obscurity without a TV series...

I disagree. Without the boost of the show I'm not sure his most recent novel would have hit the best seller list. And even with it most of the people I know who have read the series are done with it period. And that was before he failed to produce a new book in the 6 years he had given to him by the show.

Without the infusion of new readers thanks to HBO and the regular media the series gets this series would be dead due to the authors inability to do his job at all. Let alone do it well.

@Infinite_array

Yeah, he might but honestly he could finish it now without having to touch any of that stuff. I think he's professional enough that if someone dumps a truck load of money up to his house he'll do it. That said I don't think anyone will now that the show is going to finish the series for most people

And yeah, Mistborn is actually shaping up very, very well. I enjoyed the first trilogy and am really liking, more so than the original 3, the trilogy installment.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Ah, Martin's book series was quite popular long before HBO picked it up - I don't think it would have faded into obscurity without a TV series...

I disagree. Without the boost of the show I'm not sure his most recent novel would have hit the best seller list. And even with it most of the people I know who have read the series are done with it period. And that was before he failed to produce a new book in the 6 years he had given to him by the show.

Without the infusion of new readers thanks to HBO and the regular media the series gets this series would be dead due to the authors inability to do his job at all. Let alone do it well.

All very true..............

I was disagreeing with the 'fade into unfinished obscurity' part - no way would this have happened, regardless.

But anyway, it is so much shouting into a hurricane now!

So am I the only one who liked the books then..?

Nah, I liked them. But even then, I can accept that things were falling apart once you got to Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons.

The first three books are awesome. The last two need a good editing and could be half the size with nothing lost.


I quite like Sanderson, but I felt the first mist born trilogy was lacking after you know who died at the end of the first book. I also found the relationship between Rin and her husband lacking in every way......


I also found that he has "last page panic" in the books I read, it all goes crazy 50 pages from the end,

 ImAGeek wrote:
So am I the only one who liked the books then..?

I love the books, but books 4&5 were a hard slog for me.

 ImAGeek wrote:
So am I the only one who liked the books then..?

I enjoy the series, to a great extent. Even book 5. I'm not much of a book snob though. It takes a truly atrocious writer to turn me off.

I will say though that if it were not for the TV show, I probably never would have read the books.

Same here - though I think GRRM started going in the wrong direction with Book 4 and definitely Book 5, adding in too many new characters and plot lines when we really need to be consolidating and heading towards the finish.

Still, having said that, I'm looking forward to reading Book 6, whenever it comes out!

In saying that, I liked the Manderlay storyline in Dance with Dragons. - Admittedly I only particularly loved the storyline once a mate explained one of quiet sneaky bits of it.

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here - though I think GRRM started going in the wrong direction with Book 4 and definitely Book 5, adding in too many new characters and plot lines when we really need to be consolidating and heading towards the finish.

Still, having said that, I'm looking forward to reading Book 6, whenever it comes out!

Yeah, I remember feeling that there were just to many characters in book 5. I'm hoping that their introduction was vital to the eventual end of the story, and not just side plots that he thought would be cool to include. I'll be a bit miffed if book 6 was delayed so long because he was writing about characters that belonged in an off-shoot novel.

 Compel wrote:
In saying that, I liked the Manderlay storyline in Dance with Dragons. - Admittedly I only particularly loved the storyline once a mate explained one of quiet sneaky bits of it.

I'll never look at a meat pie the same way again after reading the whole "Rat Cook" theory...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Compel wrote:
In saying that, I liked the Manderlay storyline in Dance with Dragons. - Admittedly I only particularly loved the storyline once a mate explained one of quiet sneaky bits of it.

I'll never look at a meat pie the same way again after reading the whole "Rat Cook" theory...

Did you think he got as fat as he did by killing his enemies?

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here - though I think GRRM started going in the wrong direction with Book 4 and definitely Book 5, adding in too many new characters and plot lines when we really need to be consolidating and heading towards the finish.

Still, having said that, I'm looking forward to reading Book 6, whenever it comes out!

All true save that I will not be buying book 6 as I was so disenchanted by the content and continual (IMO) padding of 4 and 5, the side lining of fav characters, personality rewrites etc

He is writing about the things and people that interest him and sadly that often means many readers are disappointed with massive tangents, new characters and plot lines that may eventually in book 50 turn out to be important. It also can appear that he is spinning out the story and is no real hurry to finish (and stop the cheques coming in)

Why do people seem to dislike the dorn storyline. Yeah the jail scene was gratuitous. But I rather liked it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why do people seem to dislike the dorn storyline. Yeah the jail scene was gratuitous. But I rather liked it.

Its always going to be subjective but:

It seemed to me an afterthought and crowbarred in -

Show meeting room

"ok so George insists we do some stuff in Dron or Drag or whatever its called, Any ideas? Anyone read those bits? Sigh, ok then we can do a comedy double act bit with Jamie and Bron, everyone enjoys that - oh and stick in some kick ass ninja girls. What? oh we can't get ones who can actually fight, - never mind just get them to show some naughty bits - that will be fine. Alexander is looking for some work - nah we don't have to have him do much - just enough so that people think cool Alexander is in it - must be good."

Nothing really happened that seemed important to the plot or could not have been referenced. There was a couple of bits that were ok and the death of Mycella was nicely done, but she could have come home and been poisoned........

I didn't enjoy it in the book either so maybe bias............

The Dorne scenes are poorly written, poorly directed & poorly acted with very shallow characters, that's why at last I on't like them

I think it's the depth part where the biggest issue lies. But it may have been inevitable that Dorne would end up so unsatisfying. The writers may have decided they don't have room for all the Dorne storylines and politicking in the show (I can't really argue there, to be honest), yet they need to keep Dorne as a "thing" because reasons later that only they and GRRM understand.

This isn't to say that their execution of the Dorne sequences wasn't also lacking, of course.

IDK, I liked them because they are easy to follow. Unlike the clusterfeth of storylines converging.

You'll never see Sanderson finish the ASoIF series - his Mormonism probably recoils at the sight of all the liberal sexualities that are scattered through the series. Although, I do agree that the Stormlight Archives, and the Mistborn series (which will expand apparently expand into a modern day equivalent, SWAT based series, and then a sci-fi series) are better.

I actually found the Mistborn books pretty lackluster, aside from the magic angle which was inventively awesome. But so far after two books of the Stormlight Archives, I rank them higher than both Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones. I mean, fantasy power armor and humongous greatwords that can cut anything, even souls?

But....back on topic.

I have a wierd question:

My buddy and I were wondering about a wierd theory of ours. Does anyone remember any scenes with Tyrion and Varys after his leaving of Westeros where other people acknowledge Varys? I have a crazy theory, especially after he finds Tyrion in Mereen and they wander through town completely unaccosted, that he's currently a figment of the imagination of Tyrion, driven slightly crazy after some of the things he has been through/done. I think he actually spoke to a woman in the first episode of this season who was misunderstanding Tyrion's Valyrian, but I can't remember.

The sequence with the woman and the baby would seem to shoot that down.

edit: I think they probably save the majority of Varys' lines for interaction with Tyrion since those two have such good chemistry.

MY guess is that Hodor quite honestly just got kicked in the head by a horse, he is a stablehand afterall.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
MY guess is that Hodor quite honestly just got kicked in the head by a horse, he is a stablehand afterall.

I'm thinking the Stark boys will decide to fight with him despite what that woman(his mum? their matron?) said and accidentally brain him or trip him such that he cracks his head.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
MY guess is that Hodor quite honestly just got kicked in the head by a horse, he is a stablehand afterall.

I'm thinking the Stark boys will decide to fight with him despite what that woman(his mum? their matron?) said and accidentally brain him or trip him such that he cracks his head.

Maybe his giant blood effects him more as he ages?

 Yodhrin wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
MY guess is that Hodor quite honestly just got kicked in the head by a horse, he is a stablehand afterall.

I'm thinking the Stark boys will decide to fight with him despite what that woman(his mum? their matron?) said and accidentally brain him or trip him such that he cracks his head.

The supposed "Season 6 plot leak" suggested that it was a young Robert Baratheon who fought with and accidentally brained Hodor when Hodor teased him. Which is ridiculous because Ned and Robert only met when they were both fostered at the Eyrie in the Vale with Lord Arryn.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
MY guess is that Hodor quite honestly just got kicked in the head by a horse, he is a stablehand afterall.

I'm thinking the Stark boys will decide to fight with him despite what that woman(his mum? their matron?) said and accidentally brain him or trip him such that he cracks his head.

The supposed "Season 6 plot leak" suggested that it was a young Robert Baratheon who fought with and accidentally brained Hodor when Hodor teased him. Which is ridiculous because Ned and Robert only met when they were both fostered at the Eyrie in the Vale with Lord Arryn.

Has this been said in the show?

or Hodor was sent over to look after their horses at the Eyrie and it did happen there............

Good episode. The Tower of Joy scene was such a tease, but Arthur Dayne was a badass, pity about the way it ended.

I enjoyed it, though it was a bit slowly paced, more setting up what's to come kind of things.

I imagine Mr. Morden and company hated this episode too though - and we all know why!