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I have a very bad idea.... anyone thought about running blobs of
20 man chaos space marines and 30 cultists? Alpha legion for infiltrate? World Eaters for speed? Death Guard for resilience? hmmm....

30 death guard cultists are a nightmare to shift especialy if you use the poxwalker hive on them. Stick them in a helcult and it can be very nasty and a real tarpit for anything

Typhus cultists get fearless and feel no pain, and reroll 1's in their formation. They also save a bunch of points by not being forced to take marks due to Typhus' zombie rule preventing them from taking anything, which lets you stuff even more cultists into your list.

why helcult?

 Badablack wrote:
Typhus cultists get fearless and feel no pain, and reroll 1's in their formation. They also save a bunch of points by not being forced to take marks due to Typhus' zombie rule preventing them from taking anything, which lets you stuff even more cultists into your list.

does re-rolling 1-s apply to non-votlw models?

 koooaei wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
Typhus cultists get fearless and feel no pain, and reroll 1's in their formation. They also save a bunch of points by not being forced to take marks due to Typhus' zombie rule preventing them from taking anything, which lets you stuff even more cultists into your list.

does re-rolling 1-s apply to non-votlw models?

Yep they can. So long as the are part of the decurion.

I've been away from CSM for a time, are hordes of cultists plus flying daemon princes still the best way to go competitively?

Pondering big units has made me think - what about a blob with Cypher? Bonus move and charge bonuses nearly every turn, plus immunity to getting tarpitted.

Dropping him out of an Assault Vehicle with a mob of Possessed could be interesting, with all involved being Fleet and him able to cut through 2+ saves. Just constantly dash around the enemy army with long distance charges, conga lining to ensure you don't kill a unit on the charge but then break away if they manage to survive a second round. High chance of a charge every turn suggests Khorne, though a tarpit or multi-charge approach would prefer Nurgle or Slaanesh.

Could also be used to help a Murder Sword get to it's target.

Why would you buy the Murder Sword in the first place though?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why would you buy the Murder Sword in the first place though?

So the person he's trying to use it on refuses the challenge and it becomes useless, of course!

I'm kind of interested in 20 man CSM blobs for WE. Maybe I'll try that out with a Lord with Talisman.

The cost of adding mark of nurgle is worth it on cultists in my mind as it does make them even tougher to kill.
Helcult because i love helbrutes (yes i know they are not great rules wise)

 andysonic1 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why would you buy the Murder Sword in the first place though?

So the person he's trying to use it on refuses the challenge and it becomes useless, of course!

I'm kind of interested in 20 man CSM blobs for WE. Maybe I'll try that out with a Lord with Talisman.

I take back what I said, I am not going to do this as it is stupidly expensive pointwise and adds nothing of value to the unit. I would much rather take two units of 10 with meltaguns than one units of 20.

In a moment of stupidity I bought a box of Raptors, so now I have two units of them. I was thinking about taking a unit of 10 of them. With WE rules these guys could be pretty damn scary and a huge distraction. They will also crumble like a ton of bricks under massed fire. BUT the models are cool and I love jet packs. So: 2 units of 5 or 1 unit of 10?

I would take 2x5 with 2 Meltaguns each^^.

 Darksider wrote:
I would take 2x5 with 2 Meltaguns each^^.

That seems like the most cost efficient way to take them. You maximize special weapons and minimize risk of losing them since one can run interference while the other moves up. Now comes the next difficult decision: how to make them World Eaters. I could get more forge world World Eater Khorne conversion bodies and shoulders but I kinda like the Raptor kit. They look more mutated then normal with their weird shoulder pads.

> refusing a challenge to make the Murder Sword useless

It doesn't work only in challenges. It works when you are in base contact with the target. Declining a challenge does not take you out of B2B, it makes a model of your opponent's choice forfeit its attacks. If you are touching the target and a member of another unit, you can make your attacks on them at Sx2 AP1 ID. You can even strike at the target, if they're not part of the other unit.

> WE aesthetics for Raptors

Beastmen heads? They look nicely Khornate. Or Sigmar Bloodbound heads? Eh, this is a tactica thread, not hobby

I have tried the idea of 20 man blobs of marines using world eaters decurion, it was pretty....danktastic....it was tau vs world eaters, i got first turn i rolled 12" for my chaos blob plus the tailsman and then a 12" on the charge and assaulted his one riptide and tabled him 1st turn. then we played a second game where he got first turn and i got tabled 2nd turn. So its not bad but not good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im currently building a rehati war sect with three daemon princes, magnus and some renegades. any ideas on what i should do?

20 man is fun on paper, but with the 1 grenade clause and less special weapons it is more efficient for 10 man squads.

 lindsay40k wrote:
> refusing a challenge to make the Murder Sword useless

It doesn't work only in challenges. It works when you are in base contact with the target. Declining a challenge does not take you out of B2B, it makes a model of your opponent's choice forfeit its attacks. If you are touching the target and a member of another unit, you can make your attacks on them at Sx2 AP1 ID. You can even strike at the target, if they're not part of the other unit.

> WE aesthetics for Raptors

Beastmen heads? They look nicely Khornate. Or Sigmar Bloodbound heads? Eh, this is a tactica thread, not hobby

Declining the challenge with the character does next to nothing. Said character is probably in a unit with a different character that can accept the chaellenge.
Meaning he doesn't need to be in b2b in order to attack.
He can't attack the character with the murdersword, but that character is now stuck with a measly power sword, while the target is free to murder his posse.
The murder sword sounds cool at first, but it really doesn't work well in practice.

 -v10mega wrote:
Im currently building a rehati war sect with three daemon princes, magnus and some renegades. any ideas on what i should do?

Daemonology on the DPs FTW, easy access to giving all of them a 2++ with Cursed Earth and with multiple casters you can safely bring a bunch of Daemonic cavalry models without worrying about not rolling Incursion. Only drawback is not making the most of enhanced LOS, but with everyone getting a couple of Tzeentch spells and the big buy in play there'll be plenty to work with. Place a couple of Horror units down so that Magnus can fire a Doombolt through them and you'll get a couple of Blue Horror units for +2 WC, and do it again next turn for +4 WC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Re Murdersword: you can also get the MS wielder and a unit champion (or a tough tank character) in B2B with the target. Challenge with the champion, if they accept then the wielder is still in B2B with the target, smash up the unit with your supercharged sword until there's no one left to allocate your S8 AP1 ID onto.

Been theoryhammering recently on what would be the most competative lists to come out of CSM after playing a few games with the new legions. I have to say a deathguard "battle company" style list with the chaos warband seems incredibly powerful as an outlast competative list. The primary goal of the list is to wear down you opponent in a battle of atrition as well as the obsec meaning you will likely hold objectives with ease. The core of this list is for the most part.

Death Guard Vectotium
Chaos Warband -

Min squad of termies with combi melta

Lord with a unit of bikes, upgrades can be taken but avoid in favour of more CSM in rhinos

Havoks with 2 or 3 heavy weapons of choice

6 units of min squads of CSM with meltaguns and rhinos

Aux -
1 Spawn

Rinse and repeat depending on your points cost.

The key part of this list that makes it better than a typical DG CAD is the stealth on both your troops and vehicles, giving your rhinos you parked behind ruins a sweet 3+ as well as re-rolls of 1's on your armys FNP, making your army a damn pain to remove from the board. Meaning the best ting to do is spam obsec stealthed rhinos with min squads for maximum effectivness.

What are everyones thoughts?

 lindsay40k wrote:

Re Murdersword: you can also get the MS wielder and a unit champion (or a tough tank character) in B2B with the target. Challenge with the champion, if they accept then the wielder is still in B2B with the target, smash up the unit with your supercharged sword until there's no one left to allocate your S8 AP1 ID onto.

I sure wish that was a realistic scenario whatsoever. I mean, maybe if someone is putting Celestine out front to catch wounds it might work, but in that case you somehow led the charge with your lord in front, didn't get killed in overwatch, and now have to somehow eat through the tank goddess and her tank lolis with your, what, 6 attacks? They're prolly also invis and have sanctuary because WHY NOT!

Do Combi-Plasma. My ratio is two squads dedicated to Plasma and one for Melta.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Do Combi-Plasma. My ratio is two squads dedicated to Plasma and one for Melta.

Combi plasma is good, although I prefer the melta on termies for the ability to pop vehicles after DS, the reason I put all melta on the troops is the 5 points cheaper means you can really squeeze more out of it when your equiping 6 or more units with it, that way you can afford more marines and rhinos

I've been trying an 1850 black legion raptor talon list and it's worked alright. Hounds detachment, full raptor detachment, heldrake detachment, and some allies with a bastion for the comm relay rerolls. 6 squads of Raptors coming down turn 1 with 3 melta each, 2 heldrakes, and a dreadclaw with the zerkers and lord.

Its definately taken some practice to use correctly, turn 1 placement makes or breaks the fight for me. But there's great synergy between the raptors and heldrakes. Raptors pop transports, drakes torch the contents, Raptors charge the remnants. I used to run it with Night Lords, but the BL berserker tax is worth turn 1 assaults and hatred.

How are you getting the drakes out turn 1? They can't deepstrike.

Oh nah it's not heldrakes coming in turn 1, it's Raptors coming in turn 2. Half the reason I put a comm relay in lists is my awful reserve rolls.

Hmm. Can Heldrakes benefit from a Skyshield? Allied Detachment of a Herald and Brimstone Horrors covers the unit tax and can be pretty handy.

One thing I've contemplated as a gimmick build: Anrakyr and a Sentry Pylon Deathstar, with an Iron Warrior CAD, with Typhon. The result becomes one of the jankiest cases of Allies of Convenience Rules interacting with each other.

Enjoy Anrakyr using Mind in the Machine to get extra Typhon shots off every other turn on average, or Deepstriking Obliterators to trigger Deathmarks getting Ethereal Interceptor ofd.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/news-from-the-plague-planet/

New death guard inbound.

And daemon Mortarion. I wonder how he will compare to Magnus. DG troops are a looot better than TS. Should be fun.

Dude 8th is coming...i bought a rehati war sect and now i might be regretting it :( I might have to convert my princes to khorne princes and run them in the world eaters decurion because assaulting is much better now.