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The new deepstrike beta rules make Allarus, and the termi vexilla an even worse choice All Hail Bike Spam

True.

/sadpanda

Shinymarine wrote:
The new deepstrike beta rules make Allarus, and the termi vexilla an even worse choice All Hail Bike Spam

Except now they recommend we're capped at 3 bikes per army for tournaments.

2 bikes + Caladius in one detachment.

1 bikes + Caladius + need another Fast unit for 2nd.

with the increase of cp to battalions, you'd just take a battalion with 3 units of custodes guards then fill the points in with captains and bikes then fill a vanguard with assassins, and get 9 cp instead of 5

Audustum wrote:

Shinymarine wrote:
The new deepstrike beta rules make Allarus, and the termi vexilla an even worse choice All Hail Bike Spam

Except now they recommend we're capped at 3 bikes per army for tournaments.

2 bikes + Caladius in one detachment.

1 bikes + Caladius + need another Fast unit for 2nd.

One of the beta rules blocks soup detachments so you can't take units from different codices any more.

 Primark G wrote:

Audustum wrote:

Shinymarine wrote:
The new deepstrike beta rules make Allarus, and the termi vexilla an even worse choice All Hail Bike Spam

Except now they recommend we're capped at 3 bikes per army for tournaments.

2 bikes + Caladius in one detachment.

1 bikes + Caladius + need another Fast unit for 2nd.

One of the beta rules blocks soup detachments so you can't take units from different codices any more.

That's half true, you can no longer load up sisters of battle, assassins and space wolves in one detachment anymore, but you can still take a custodes detachment, a sisters detachment and an assassins detachment

That is not soup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shinymarine wrote:
The new deepstrike beta rules make Allarus, and the termi vexilla an even worse choice All Hail Bike Spam

I think the restriction is just T1 to stop alpha strikes so it doesn't affect my current list.

All in all, I'm content with the changes. Nothing directly hurt us. Bikes are even better now.

 Primark G wrote:

Audustum wrote:

Shinymarine wrote:
The new deepstrike beta rules make Allarus, and the termi vexilla an even worse choice All Hail Bike Spam

Except now they recommend we're capped at 3 bikes per army for tournaments.

2 bikes + Caladius in one detachment.

1 bikes + Caladius + need another Fast unit for 2nd.

One of the beta rules blocks soup detachments so you can't take units from different codices any more.

Caladius is Adeptus Custodes

We just need a 3rd FA choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Primark G wrote:
That is not soup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shinymarine wrote:
The new deepstrike beta rules make Allarus, and the termi vexilla an even worse choice All Hail Bike Spam

I think the restriction is just T1 to stop alpha strikes so it doesn't affect my current list.

You still also have to have like 50% of your power level on the board. Allarus are expensive so that's going to hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
All in all, I'm content with the changes. Nothing directly hurt us. Bikes are even better now.

As a GK player, I WEEP at their consignment to terribad.

As a Custodes player, I'm fine.

I almost never deep strike my Allarus outside of my deployment zone so it has zero affect on me. When I first was listening to the podcast I thought they said everything has to DS first turn.

It does make it so that I will struggle to fit my wardens in an army any more, but the extra command points feel good. I can’t take 4 shield captains any longer or 4 bike squads, but that was always a bit of a rough patch

I think the limitation (there can be only three) will make players take a harder look at Allarus again. Spamming bikes is just not cool and GW taketh away!

 Primark G wrote:
I think the limitation (there can be only three) will make players take a harder look at Allarus again. Spamming bikes is just not cool and GW taketh away!

And the new deep strike rules will make them look right away again

Honestly, ideal setup for pure Custodes is probably a bike outrider squad than a battalion with Caladius/Dreadnoughts.

Not really, there will just be more bikes in each unit rather than more units of them.

A big expensive unit of Allarus which now has to sit doing nothing for an extra turn, has become far less appealing than before.

Also, RIP my beloved Grey Knight/Custodes combo :(

stratigo wrote:
It does make it so that I will struggle to fit my wardens in an army any more, but the extra command points feel good. I can’t take 4 shield captains any longer or 4 bike squads, but that was always a bit of a rough patch

Just spice them up. It's 0-3 per datasheet and Captains have 3 datasheets. You can have up to 9 Captains.

Audustum wrote:

stratigo wrote:
It does make it so that I will struggle to fit my wardens in an army any more, but the extra command points feel good. I can’t take 4 shield captains any longer or 4 bike squads, but that was always a bit of a rough patch

Just spice them up. It's 0-3 per datasheet and Captains have 3 datasheets. You can have up to 9 Captains.

Not in a tournament though.

 nordsturmking wrote:

Audustum wrote:

stratigo wrote:
It does make it so that I will struggle to fit my wardens in an army any more, but the extra command points feel good. I can’t take 4 shield captains any longer or 4 bike squads, but that was always a bit of a rough patch

Just spice them up. It's 0-3 per datasheet and Captains have 3 datasheets. You can have up to 9 Captains.

Not in a tournament though.

Yes in a tournament. The 0-3 is for datasheets.

Audustum wrote:

stratigo wrote:
It does make it so that I will struggle to fit my wardens in an army any more, but the extra command points feel good. I can’t take 4 shield captains any longer or 4 bike squads, but that was always a bit of a rough patch

Just spice them up. It's 0-3 per datasheet and Captains have 3 datasheets. You can have up to 9 Captains.

Taking anything but a bike shield captain is heresy. What it has made interesting is working in a battalion of actual custodes

I use Trajann and he rocks. I have never used my Allarus for an alpha strike and they do some work every game. Big bike squads are easy to target, three man units is ideal.

Audustum wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

Audustum wrote:

stratigo wrote:
It does make it so that I will struggle to fit my wardens in an army any more, but the extra command points feel good. I can’t take 4 shield captains any longer or 4 bike squads, but that was always a bit of a rough patch

Just spice them up. It's 0-3 per datasheet and Captains have 3 datasheets. You can have up to 9 Captains.

Not in a tournament though.

Yes in a tournament. The 0-3 is for datasheets.

Are you suggestion we should take a captain on foot? And then walk him over to the enemy? In tourney? No offense but i'm not convinced that's gonna work ^^
Allarus captain might work.

now we need lots of LOS blocking terrain on the table more then ever. at least fi you want to survive 2 or 3 turns of shooting from IG or Tau.

 nordsturmking wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

Audustum wrote:

stratigo wrote:
It does make it so that I will struggle to fit my wardens in an army any more, but the extra command points feel good. I can’t take 4 shield captains any longer or 4 bike squads, but that was always a bit of a rough patch

Just spice them up. It's 0-3 per datasheet and Captains have 3 datasheets. You can have up to 9 Captains.

Not in a tournament though.

Yes in a tournament. The 0-3 is for datasheets.

Are you suggestion we should take a captain on foot? And then walk him over to the enemy? In tourney? No offense but i'm not convinced that's gonna work ^^
Allarus captain might work.

now we need lots of LOS blocking terrain on the table more then ever. at least fi you want to survive 2 or 3 turns of shooting from IG or Tau.

Well, only take the regs if you really need to trim points or want that 7th, 8th or 9th Captain, but you get the idea.

 Primark G wrote:
I use Trajann and he rocks. I have never used my Allarus for an alpha strike and they do some work every game. Big bike squads are easy to target, three man units is ideal.

You are going to struggle to take more than 9 bikes in any regard. And I have trouble imagining more than, say, 12 normal bikers

Agreed.

I honestly would've liked it more if they gave the +5/+12 CP from Batallions/Brigades to armies that are battle forged from a single faction to incentivize a mono Custodes build more while soup armies only get +3/+9 like they used to. As it stands, it's a bit of a wash that doesn't help mono army builds as much as it should have but overall the FAQ itself is decent enough, just glad I get to start with 8 CP now!

Has anyone gotten some play time with the FW units now that it's been a while since the beta rules came out? I'm getting a Contemptor Achillus soon and I'm considering a Caladius Grav Tank, have they done any solid work for you guys?

Mr. Funktastic wrote:


Has anyone gotten some play time with the FW units now that it's been a while since the beta rules came out? I'm getting a Contemptor Achillus soon and I'm considering a Caladius Grav Tank, have they done any solid work for you guys?

I've played 3 games with the dread and found it to be a decent if slightly overcosted choice, the shooting is nice and the cc is good enough, tried the Caladius last game against dark eldar and hated the lack of mobility unless i want to watch its hit chance tank the base profile for it seems way overcosted after running into wave serpents on a frequent basis

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
I honestly would've liked it more if they gave the +5/+12 CP from Batallions/Brigades to armies that are battle forged from a single faction to incentivize a mono Custodes build more while soup armies only get +3/+9 like they used to. As it stands, it's a bit of a wash that doesn't help mono army builds as much as it should have but overall the FAQ itself is decent enough, just glad I get to start with 8 CP now!

Has anyone gotten some play time with the FW units now that it's been a while since the beta rules came out? I'm getting a Contemptor Achillus soon and I'm considering a Caladius Grav Tank, have they done any solid work for you guys?

yeah, you're still going to see "Custodes.. plus a bare minimum IG brigade for CPs"

Brigade is less likely, but you will always see a Battalion at least.

Custodes was codex: bikes before and now after the FAQ changes it's absolutely codex: bikes until things change.

Shinymarine wrote:

Mr. Funktastic wrote:


Has anyone gotten some play time with the FW units now that it's been a while since the beta rules came out? I'm getting a Contemptor Achillus soon and I'm considering a Caladius Grav Tank, have they done any solid work for you guys?

I've played 3 games with the dread and found it to be a decent if slightly overcosted choice, the shooting is nice and the cc is good enough, tried the Caladius last game against dark eldar and hated the lack of mobility unless i want to watch its hit chance tank the base profile for it seems way overcosted after running into wave serpents on a frequent basis

The Caladius is deceptively good, but it badly needs Power of the Machine Spirit. Against many targets, especially ones with invulnerable saves like Tesseract Vaults and Imperial Knights, I believe it's main gun alone should do about as much damage as two Neutron Laser Onagers on average (280 points) with a much better chance of not stiffing you with 0 damage.

Hopefully FW will do the grav tanks the justice they deserve.

I want to test a large squad of either Allarus or Wardens to see how they fare now.

Custodes remain doin gak all damage on a charge against tau while losing chunks for the temerity of charging. Three games against the tau and they have been the most dull gak I have ever had to deal with in this game "Here, imma sit in this corner and shoot you. And even when you get close enough to charge me, you do no damage and iI just shoot you more, never moving". You know what's not a fun way to win a game? Hiding your entire army for 5 turns and jumping out on the objectives in the last few turns because your army can't actually do any damage and the tau player is too boring to bother moving,