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Thanks guys, I know we don't know until it actually gets released with the info. All the usual suspects say that they are not replacing the Tac marines but I've got a lot of naysayers around me that keep driving home they believe that this is the end of marines as we know it, and to not kid myself that they won't be phased out which I seriously hope doesn't happen but my gut tells me they'll do silly things like only release new or upgraded sculpts of models like Captains, Dante, Azrael etc only at Primaris size forcing those waiting for new models to include them :-(

probably not the right place for laying my fears on the table but I'm scared guys...... really scared.

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 nerdfest09 wrote:
Thanks guys, I know we don't know until it actually gets released with the info. All the usual suspects say that they are not replacing the Tac marines but I've got a lot of naysayers around me that keep driving home they believe that this is the end of marines as we know it, and to not kid myself that they won't be phased out which I seriously hope doesn't happen but my gut tells me they'll do silly things like only release new or upgraded sculpts of models like Captains, Dante, Azrael etc only at Primaris size forcing those waiting for new models to include them :-(

probably not the right place for laying my fears on the table but I'm scared guys...... really scared.


don't be, they won't be phased out, not at least this edition. MAYBE they'll start to do it in 10th edition 5+ years from now, but I doubt it very much. the fact is that they're deliberatly putting them in a codex with old marines which is a GOOD THING, if we where JUST getting "codex primaris marines" THEN it'd be a time to be afraid

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USA

Yeah, normal marines aren't gonna get phased out.

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 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, normal marines aren't gonna get phased out.


Indeed. That's a necron thing and they're obviously imperials. They'll get SOB'ed over time instead. The irony of that will of course make you squeal with glee.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/15 02:33:13



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Tactical Marines have been basically phased out due to being fairly useless for 3 editions beyond being mandatory.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 03:02:37


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 warboss wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, normal marines aren't gonna get phased out.


Indeed. That's a necron thing and they're obviously imperials. They'll get SOB'ed over time instead. The irony of that will of course make you squeal with glee.


they're in a reasonably good place for that, if GW never make another new standard Marine kit,standard marine players would have little to complain about. about the ONLY thing I'd like to see is a plastic thunderfire cannon.

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USA

Nah, they're not gonna be SoB'd. They already have plastics, it's not like GW can go back in time and take away your plastic tacticals.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 04:07:27


Good faith is a prerequisite for civility. In its absence, "Go Feth Yourself" is not only an acceptable response, it is the only appropriate response and, really, the only possible response. Social media isn’t characterized by rampant incivility because people have bad manners. It looks like that because epidemic bad faith makes nicer manners impossible. So stop arguing in bad faith, or don't be surprised when people tell you to go feth yourself.
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 Melissia wrote:
Nah, they're not gonna be SoB'd. They already have plastics, it's not like GW can go back in time and take away your plastic tacticals.
I think to be SOB'd is to have the same model line for eternity.

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Bretonnian'd would be more apt if they weren't dropped when AoS became a thing - they had many plastic models.

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 Melissia wrote:
Nah, they're not gonna be SoB'd. They already have plastics, it's not like GW can go back in time and take away your plastic tacticals.


And it's not like GW can go back in time and take away your metal figs either and yet SOB players (rightfully) complain. That's not the point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Nah, they're not gonna be SoB'd. They already have plastics, it's not like GW can go back in time and take away your plastic tacticals.
I think to be SOB'd is to have the same model line for eternity.


Amongst other things, yes. I don't expect to see Secondus Marine kits released in the future or if they are it'll be at a drip rate until whatever was left in the pipeline is shoved out the end and the rare special limited edition. I expect we'll see a steady switch in focus away from normal marines to Adeptus Restartes, at first partial (again.. pipeline) and then a clear majority, in the fluff whether that be tales of glory in White Dwarf or BL novels/stories/audiobooks as well as promotional art. Eventually (maybe in a year or two) stores will no longer be required to stock much in the way of old marine plastics and then a few years after that won't be able to as they switch to direct only. My point was that we already have a 40k template for this type of bastard stepchild product line and more in the AOS line as well to look to as a guide for what to expect in the years to come.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/15 05:15:24



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We'll find out soon enough eh.

 warboss wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Nah, they're not gonna be SoB'd. They already have plastics, it's not like GW can go back in time and take away your plastic tacticals.


And it's not like GW can go back in time and take away your metal figs either and yet SOB players (rightfully) complain. That's not the point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Nah, they're not gonna be SoB'd. They already have plastics, it's not like GW can go back in time and take away your plastic tacticals.
I think to be SOB'd is to have the same model line for eternity.


Amongst other things, yes. I don't expect to see Secondus Marine kits released in the future or if they are it'll be at a drip rate until whatever was left in the pipeline is shoved out the end and the rare special limited edition. I expect we'll see a steady switch in focus away from normal marines to Adeptus Restartes, at first partial (again.. pipeline) and then a clear majority, in the fluff whether that be tales of glory in White Dwarf or BL novels/stories/audiobooks as well as promotional art. Eventually (maybe in a year or two) stores will no longer be required to stock much in the way of old marine plastics and then a few years after that won't be able to as they switch to direct only. My point was that we already have a 40k template for this type of bastard stepchild product line and more in the AOS line as well to look to as a guide for what to expect in the years to come.


Aye exactly. When people say "Primaris are going to replace regular Marines" they don't mean GW will immediately send armed officers from the Royal Tabletop Constabulary round to every home and store in the nation to drag old Marine models and books out into the street to burn on pyres, or even that they're going to immediately and forevermore stop selling them, just that development resources will likely shift pretty heavily towards Primaris going forward and the old line will be left to wither.

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Except to do that, they'd have to get rid of Deathwatch Marine kits, the new Rubric Marines, etc.

The current Marines are in scale with those outside of legs. Anyone afraid of the old models being phases out is being paranoid for the sake of being paranoid.

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 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except to do that, they'd have to get rid of Deathwatch Marine kits, the new Rubric Marines, etc.


Except they don't. Both lines are complete and can wait around for however long it will take for them to get the Primaris/DG treatment.

BrianDavion wrote:
MAYBE they'll start to do it in 10th edition 5+ years from now, but I doubt it very much. the fact is that they're deliberatly putting them in a codex with old marines which is a GOOD THING, if we where JUST getting "codex primaris marines" THEN it'd be a time to be afraid


The Space Marine codex is currently rumoured to release with not a single Space Marine kit. It's all Primaris Marines.

What was the last time a Space Marine dex release with ZERO kits?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 07:35:05


 
   
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Primaris marines exist because GW wanted to redo the marine range. Their techniques are way more advanced than they were 18 years ago when they started on them. It meant that their signature dudes were way behind some of the more recent lines.

I've got the primaris captain and librarian, who are the first full kits (as opposed to starter set or easy to build stuff). The detail on them is fantastic - way beyond the older stuff. The librarian in particular is the best one by far.
   
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 His Master's Voice wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except to do that, they'd have to get rid of Deathwatch Marine kits, the new Rubric Marines, etc.


Except they don't. Both lines are complete and can wait around for however long it will take for them to get the Primaris/DG treatment.

BrianDavion wrote:
MAYBE they'll start to do it in 10th edition 5+ years from now, but I doubt it very much. the fact is that they're deliberatly putting them in a codex with old marines which is a GOOD THING, if we where JUST getting "codex primaris marines" THEN it'd be a time to be afraid


The Space Marine codex is currently rumoured to release with not a single Space Marine kit. It's all Primaris Marines.

What was the last time a Space Marine dex release with ZERO kits?


Yes if you want new kits you'll buy primaris from now on. Because space marines are complete. There was little else they could do beyond just new sculpts. Primaris are just a more lore friendly way to expand the space marine line, one that also looks much better than say centurions.
   
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except to do that, they'd have to get rid of Deathwatch Marine kits, the new Rubric Marines, etc.

The current Marines are in scale with those outside of legs. Anyone afraid of the old models being phases out is being paranoid for the sake of being paranoid.


Some kit has to be the last one made in the old style, it just happens to be these guys.

 
   
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SilverAlien wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:


BrianDavion wrote:
MAYBE they'll start to do it in 10th edition 5+ years from now, but I doubt it very much. the fact is that they're deliberatly putting them in a codex with old marines which is a GOOD THING, if we where JUST getting "codex primaris marines" THEN it'd be a time to be afraid


The Space Marine codex is currently rumoured to release with not a single Space Marine kit. It's all Primaris Marines.

What was the last time a Space Marine dex release with ZERO kits?


Yes if you want new kits you'll buy primaris from now on. Because space marines are complete. There was little else they could do beyond just new sculpts. Primaris are just a more lore friendly way to expand the space marine line, one that also looks much better than say centurions.


They'll probably just do resculpts of the named characters and possibly a new tactical squad with longer legs, though I doubt it. I am pretty sure they'll resculpt the chaos space marine box, though.

   
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 His Master's Voice wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except to do that, they'd have to get rid of Deathwatch Marine kits, the new Rubric Marines, etc.


Except they don't. Both lines are complete and can wait around for however long it will take for them to get the Primaris/DG treatment.

BrianDavion wrote:
MAYBE they'll start to do it in 10th edition 5+ years from now, but I doubt it very much. the fact is that they're deliberatly putting them in a codex with old marines which is a GOOD THING, if we where JUST getting "codex primaris marines" THEN it'd be a time to be afraid


The Space Marine codex is currently rumoured to release with not a single Space Marine kit. It's all Primaris Marines.

What was the last time a Space Marine dex release with ZERO kits?


the 6th edition one came out with centurions, did we panic that centurions where gonna replace marines?

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No, because Centurians weren't an obvious attempt to release a rescaled marine line without having to do the entire range at once...

   
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 insaniak wrote:
No, because Centurians weren't an obvious attempt to release a rescaled marine line without having to do the entire range at once...
If the plan was to replace the Space Marines line with Primaris Marines, why would they release a codex with the Old Marine rules in it? They were already covered by the Index. If they put Chapter Tactics in there, they would still work with the models in the Index due to the <Chapter> keyword. The Old Marine units have exactly the amount of support they would need if they were being phased out. Instead they are going to be in the codex.

Besides, the fact that the Primaris Marine units don't really invalidate any of the Old Marine units outright lends even more credence to the idea that they are meant to be run side-by-side. The literal only units we have right now that can directly replace an Old Marine unit are the Primaris Librarian and the Primaris Ancient. Nothing else can straight up invalidate a unit.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the plan was to replace the Space Marines line with Primaris Marines, why would they release a codex with the Old Marine rules in it?

Because people would be absolutely livid if they wouldn't and this way people like you believe that old marines won't be phased out and keep buying the outdated kits.

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Why replace them when they can sell us both?

Incidently, I did some math and it looks like in dark Imperium we have a rough ratio of primaris marines to standard, being roughly 1/ in 3.

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BrianDavion wrote:
Why replace them when they can sell us both?

Oh, they will keep selling the old kits, at least for a while. I'd expect the sales of minimarines to decline over the years, as people move on to the primaris and there will be no new kits for minimarines, and maybe then the old kits will be discontinued. It will take years though, maybe even a decade.

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 Crimson wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Why replace them when they can sell us both?

Oh, they will keep selling the old kits, at least for a while. I'd expect the sales of minimarines to decline over the years, as people move on to the primaris and there will be no new kits for minimarines, and maybe then the old kits will be discontinued. It will take years though, maybe even a decade.


I honestly doubt GW's thought that far ahead. the focus will definastly be on the Primaris but even after the Primaris release they'll support old astartes as long as possiable

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 Crimson wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the plan was to replace the Space Marines line with Primaris Marines, why would they release a codex with the Old Marine rules in it?

Because people would be absolutely livid if they wouldn't and this way people like you believe that old marines won't be phased out and keep buying the outdated kits.
People bitched that they WERE in the codex as well. People will bitch and bitch about just about everything. If GW hadn't released anything new for Marines, there would be complaints that their scale is off and that there was nothing new coming out.

Honestly, each kit could come with a coupon for a free handjob and there would still be complaining.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the plan was to replace the Space Marines line with Primaris Marines, why would they release a codex with the Old Marine rules in it?

Because people would be absolutely livid if they wouldn't and this way people like you believe that old marines won't be phased out and keep buying the outdated kits.
People bitched that they WERE in the codex as well. People will bitch and bitch about just about everything. If GW hadn't released anything new for Marines, there would be complaints that their scale is off and that there was nothing new coming out.

Honestly, each kit could come with a coupon for a free handjob and there would still be complaining.


course they would. "duuur GW sent me a blonde, I prefer brunettes!"

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
No, because Centurians weren't an obvious attempt to release a rescaled marine line without having to do the entire range at once...
If the plan was to replace the Space Marines line with Primaris Marines, why would they release a codex with the Old Marine rules in it? .

Because the entire point of releasing the Primaris guys as something different is that you dont have to remove the old range and completely replace it.

This way, they can release Primaris kits at a reasonable rate, slowly fleshing out the range while they sell through remaining stocks of the existing kits. As the old kits sell down, I suspect that they'll be quietly retired, and once the Primaris range is completely fleshed out, they'll simply become the standard for marine armies.

Given how much of the current marine range relies on the same parts, it's a clever way of going about rescaling your range without having to do it all at once.

   
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There is no winning this argument/discussion.

New units, with new rules, sell new models. Primaris Marines, in their larger scale, prevent you from just swapping weapons on old models.


   
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 insaniak wrote:
No, because Centurians weren't an obvious attempt to release a rescaled marine line without having to do the entire range at once...

Ah yes and that's why they revealed Primaris Assault Marines, Terminators, Centurions as possibilities in the future and have given the Intercessors a way to be equipped like Tactical Marines...

OH wait they didn't.

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BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
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 insaniak wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
No, because Centurians weren't an obvious attempt to release a rescaled marine line without having to do the entire range at once...
If the plan was to replace the Space Marines line with Primaris Marines, why would they release a codex with the Old Marine rules in it? .

Because the entire point of releasing the Primaris guys as something different is that you dont have to remove the old range and completely replace it.

This way, they can release Primaris kits at a reasonable rate, slowly fleshing out the range while they sell through remaining stocks of the existing kits. As the old kits sell down, I suspect that they'll be quietly retired, and once the Primaris range is completely fleshed out, they'll simply become the standard for marine armies.

Given how much of the current marine range relies on the same parts, it's a clever way of going about rescaling your range without having to do it all at once.


Exactly this. Primaris Marines are what Space Marines should have been all along. They have 2 wounds, their base bolter has an AP value, and the fluff has reasons built in for existing marines to become Primaris Marines. Bobby G. created a whole new founding and not only supplemented existing armies with Primaris Marines, entire new Chapters have sprung up.

GW reached the end of the Space Marines line. They couldn't just keep retooling what they had as people always bitched about how "x" wasn't in the Codex Astartes. Going the way they were going gave us stupid units like the Centurions and fill ins vehicles like the Stalker. Now everything is wide open and they can surprise us again with updated kits.

So yes. Vanilla Marines are getting replaced eventually. Everything points to that fact. Sure, they'll tell us they won't pull the plug, but that's essentially what they are doing. It's just going to be a slow process over the next few years/editions. Will there eventually be a point when a Space Marine Codex is released without the older marines, maybe not, but that doesn't mean the line isn't effectively going away. About time too. The line had a great run for many many years. I'm excited to see what they do going forward as it can be something new instead of "look new Tactical squad now with Grav!" I'll still build and paint up my "old" marines. I really don't see what the problem is.

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