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Me again with my eternal struggle against the Necrons, this time it's wraiths.

With a 1k army, I don't have a great deal of points to throw away and I'm wary about throwing a load of points on DC and Lemmy in order to destroy 6 wraiths.

Captain smash manged to kill one in my last battle, despite his 3+ shield and 5+ DC FNP, he got cut up pretty badly.

10" movement and 3+ invuln makes them a tricky opponent in a limited points game, any thoughts?

p.s. Razorbacks generally get one shotted by the stalkers or Doomsday Ark :(

Wraiths are nasty. Anything that does MW to them is effective. Mephiston can smite them, blood boil them, charge them, use red rampage, and kill them in CC. Librarian dread can do the same, and its more resilient against attacks from them.

cheers p5freak, I'll give the libby dread a go.. been wanting to use that model, I will remember it's a character this time!

 p5freak wrote:
Check the BA FAQ.

This isn't 7th Edition. You could be more helpful.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/warhammer_40000_blood_angels_en.pdf

Page 91 – Intercessor Squad, Wargear Options
Change the third bullet point to read: ‘The Intercessor Sergeant may replace their bolt rifle with a power sword or chainsword. Alternatively they may take a power sword or chainsword in addition to their other weapons.’

As per the FAQ, BA intercessor sergeants can take power swords.

Thanks for the replies guys.
I've been splitting my space marines between BA and Ravenguard. RG has a cant be overwatched warlord trait that's pretty juicy. A libby from each force that both have cant be overwatched is pretty neat, plus you get regular sm psyker powers so you can snag Nullzone and Might of Heros, both of which are really good for us.
Beyond that they have a t1 deepstrike that still works, which has been neat to put intercessors at 13", the aforementioned libby and something shooty right where you want it.

3rd battalion just ends up being a small IG force for extra bodies and CP.

 p5freak wrote:
Check the BA FAQ.

Man you are just a bucket full of shi...ning sunlight aren't you?

To answer the question, yes the Intercessor Sgt. can take a power sword or chain sword per the most recent BA FAQ.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 p5freak wrote:
Wraiths are nasty. Anything that does MW to them is effective. Mephiston can smite them, blood boil them, charge them, use red rampage, and kill them in CC. Librarian dread can do the same, and its more resilient against attacks from them.

Smashed the wraiths today

Oppo put them on the flank, two scout bike squads and two rhinos with twin storm bolters, given a bit of supporting fire from a tac squad with plasma took them down very nicely.

I had the libby dread, but oppo denied the wings for a turn so could not jump him in until turn 3, by that time the scout bikes and rhinos had oveerun the flank and libby jumped in to kill the big guys.

all good, victory over Necrons!

Next up.. Eldar!

Hey guys, I've never used BA so I'd like to hear your opinions about a choice that I'm making. It's about an ally detachment for my Deathwatch.

Basic idea is that Deathwatch will provide the shooting and BA the melee/bodies/CP. From what I understand the utmost basic line-up for an allied detachment is:
- Captain Smash (TH + SS, Jumppack, relics?)
- 3 x 5 scouts (1 x HB each)

I've seen a couple pages back that Lemartes + 10 x DC are pretty good but I've also seen that Sanguinary guards + sanguinor are a thing. I'm wondering which one is better for my particular situation.

You can use any detachment as allies. BA isnt the best choice for providing bodies and CP, but they are good for melee. AM is best for bodies and CP. You need two HQ and three troops for a battalion. Good HQ units are captn slammy with TH, angels wings relic JP, mephiston, lemartes (if you take DC), libby dread. If you go the sanguinary road use a sang ancient with the standard of sacrifice as your warlord and a sang guard unit.

 p5freak wrote:
You can use any detachment as allies. BA isnt the best choice for providing bodies and CP, but they are good for melee. AM is best for bodies and CP. You need two HQ and three troops for a battalion. Good HQ units are captn slammy with TH, angels wings relic JP, mephiston, lemartes (if you take DC), libby dread. If you go the sanguinary road use a sang ancient with the standard of sacrifice as your warlord and a sang guard unit.

My bad, with bodies I just meant to add stuff to the list. Not necessarily a CP battery and screen fodder.
What exactly do the sanguinary guard offer that DC do not? They're beefier and pricier or is there some other huge upside to them? Also in regards to loadout & squad size, what do you give them, what's the magic number of dudes to take?

Jetsquirrel wrote:

What exactly do the sanguinary guard offer that DC do not? They're beefier and pricier or is there some other huge upside to them? Also in regards to loadout & squad size, what do you give them, what's the magic number of dudes to take?

W2, 2+ sv, encarmine sword S4 AP-3 DD3. They re-roll failed hit rolls if within 6" of the warlord. If the sang ancient is the warlord with the standard of sacrifice relic they get 5+++ if within 6". And they re-roll wound rolls of 1.

Jetsquirrel wrote:
Hey guys, I've never used BA so I'd like to hear your opinions about a choice that I'm making. It's about an ally detachment for my Deathwatch.

Basic idea is that Deathwatch will provide the shooting and BA the melee/bodies/CP. From what I understand the utmost basic line-up for an allied detachment is:
- Captain Smash (TH + SS, Jumppack, relics?)
- 3 x 5 scouts (1 x HB each)

I've seen a couple pages back that Lemartes + 10 x DC are pretty good but I've also seen that Sanguinary guards + sanguinor are a thing. I'm wondering which one is better for my particular situation.

I'd rather suggest you take the following:

- 3 captains
- 3 x 5 melee scouts

Jetsquirrel wrote:
Hey guys, I've never used BA so I'd like to hear your opinions about a choice that I'm making. It's about an ally detachment for my Deathwatch.

Basic idea is that Deathwatch will provide the shooting and BA the melee/bodies/CP. From what I understand the utmost basic line-up for an allied detachment is:
- Captain Smash (TH + SS, Jumppack, relics?)
- 3 x 5 scouts (1 x HB each)

I've seen a couple pages back that Lemartes + 10 x DC are pretty good but I've also seen that Sanguinary guards + sanguinor are a thing. I'm wondering which one is better for my particular situation.

=
You really need a second HQ so you can run a Battalion for those extra CPs. DC + Lemartes and SG + Sanguinor and/or Sanguinary Ancient are both very good but work best against different targets.

SG have power weapons throughout, a 2+ save and 2 wounds. They basically work like flying Terminators and are at their best dealing with elite infantry. They can struggle against hordes due to low numbers of attacks and against very tough foes due to the lack of fixed-damage weapons. They are very durable and become even more so if you add a Standard of Sacrifice for a 5+++ save and a Sanguinary Novitiate/Priest to patch up injured models. I favour 8-10 models in a squad with an even mix of Encarmine swords and power fists. Don't take axes and only bother with special pistols if you have nothing better to spend the points on. 9 Models + Sanguinor cost about 500 points but I would consider adding the Ancient as well for FNP.

Death Company are cheaper and have an insane number of attacks for cutting through hordes. They can also get Thunder Hammers for dealing with tough targets. They synergise very well with Lemartes who provides rerolls to charge and to hit. I like a squad of 10 with 7 bolters+chainswords and 3 Thunder hammers. Death Company are a bit of glass cannon unit. They hit very hard but are not so durable. 10 DC + Lemartes comes in at about 350 points (depending on loadout).

Death Company are cheaper and bring their own rerolls more easily since Lemartes can reroll his own charge too and the whole squad gets rerolls to hit as long as one model is within 6" of him. Captain Smash also gains the "Death Company" keyword meaning he can benefit from Lemartes as well. Sanguinary Guard are more expensive and need more points invested in support. You also need to be careful as it is only models within 6" of the Warlord that get rerolls, not the whole squad.

If you are running Deathwatch, you have SIA to help cut down MEQs so my feeling is that the DC will work better in this context as they can deal with hordes or very tough targets as needed. SG will just bring more of what the DW have already. 3 squads of Scouts, 10 DC, Lemartes and Captain Smash should cost about 650 points depending on loadout and everything is fairly cheap but will hit hard.

Thinking of taking a blood angels battalion for a 5 round 2,000 point itc tournament , no forgeworld allowed, all the beta rules in affect, my current thinking is 3x5 scouts, Smash Captain, Lemartes and Mephy since none of my other detachments have psychic support, Is it better to run lemartes for the dc company re roll on captain smash or to cut him and take a 2nd captain?

Is this what we have become? an add on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can lemartes have the angels wing relic?

Named characters cannot take relics.
And don't feel bad, all Imperial armies are add-on's in 8th.

sorry, was thinking without going to the codex.

It's just so depressing when looking at other armies tactical threads, and all we seem to get here are questions about how to cherry pick the few good units we have :(

Only few SM armies can function well on their own. UM can, RG can, DA can, we cant. Because we are melee oriented, and its still hard to get everything in CC in one turn. And even if we pull it off the enemy can simply fallback and shred us to pieces.

Hey, I need some help. I was about to get rid of my Blood Angels army when I was told they are still viable. So, before I try and unload them, I thought i would reach out and see if I can still play them.

That being said I have the folowing

Mephiston
Lemartis
Sanguinius
Sang Priest w/Jmp Pack
Sang Priest on Foot
Chaplain w/ Jump Pack

20 Tact
10 Assault Marines on foot

20 DC
10 Sang Guard

3 DC Dreads

10 Bikers

3 Rhinos/Vindicators
1 Razorback

5 Sniper Scouts

A Load of Bits to Convert

So with this and maybe a little room for Conversions What is actually Viable in a 2k semi Competitive area?

Second I have seen a couple units that are key for certain builds and options, I keep seeing Smash Captain, or Slamginious? What is this build?

KnightScion wrote:
Hey, I need some help. I was about to get rid of my Blood Angels army when I was told they are still viable. So, before I try and unload them, I thought i would reach out and see if I can still play them.

That being said I have the folowing

Mephiston
Lemartis
Sanguinius
Sang Priest w/Jmp Pack
Sang Priest on Foot
Chaplain w/ Jump Pack

20 Tact
10 Assault Marines on foot

20 DC
10 Sang Guard

3 DC Dreads

10 Bikers

3 Rhinos/Vindicators
1 Razorback

5 Sniper Scouts

A Load of Bits to Convert

So with this and maybe a little room for Conversions What is actually Viable in a 2k semi Competitive area?

Second I have seen a couple units that are key for certain builds and options, I keep seeing Smash Captain, or Slamginious? What is this build?

BA are viable selectively. Scouts, captains, Meph, Lemartes, DC, sang g, are about it. Put some mix of these in a IG and or custodes army and you'll do all right. Full BA is not great.

Captain smash is a captain with a jump pack, hammer, and shield, warlord trait that gives +1 damage, and relic jump pack. Then you use the strat to make him death company, and use a few CP a turn to give him more attacks and whatnot. The details are in this thread in the last 5 pages or so, but he is a monster.

The first 450 points of BA are soooo good. But the rest of the army is just bleh. What is the point of an army of T7 shoot cars that don't have any defensive bonuses? Or airplanes that have been point nerfed to irrelevance? That first death company bomb is awesome. The second one has no strategems to use. I love my 2x slam + 3x5 bolter scout battalion in my soup list. What a great 450 points. But nothing else in the dex seems like a good idea.

What SM army of shooty T7 cars does have any defensive bonuses ? Vehicles dont get chapter tactics.

Which is why you don't see this armies around.

Been thinking about tweaking the BA component of my tourney army.

At the last GT I went 3-3 with the DC coming up small in 2 of my losses, and big in all 3 wins. In one loss I deployed them when I shouldn't have, and then didn't commit them when I should have. The other one I rolled a 2+2+1 for my 3D6 charge. The Meta was vehicle crazy, so I was thinking of dropping a wyvren for a 3rd BA character.

Current list:


Problem is I can't figure out which character. Another Captain Hammer or Lemartes, I can't pick which one. Captain Hammer hits harder, but Lemartes is no slouch and he buffs the DC to prevent the 2+2+1 charge roll.

Right now my thinking is Lemartes, but it seems like everywhere I look people are running multiple thunder hammer captains. What do you think?

Question 2: Hive Guard + Neurothropes + Hive Tyrants gave me some fits. I never successfully cast a spell with Mephiston while in shadows that wasn't denied. He comes up big when there isn't psychic defense. But Tyranids are big, and I need him to do something more substantial in those games. I went 3-3, but 0-2 vs Nids. My other loss was to necrons and was because I didn't have enough terrain to hide a wyvren out of LOS. The game was mine if terrain had been a bit better, or if I had understood the doomsday ark's shooting gets weaker if they move.

Question 3: I never played them, but -2 to hit Aeldari Fliers were everywhere. Anyone got experience against that sort of army. One of the top lists was 3 Hemlocks, 3 Crimson Hunter Exarchs, 3 Wave Serpents, 2 Guardians, 1 Dire Avenger, 2 characters. I assume I should reserve my DC if I line up against a list like that.

tag8833 wrote:
Been thinking about tweaking the BA component of my tourney army.

At the last GT I went 3-3 with the DC coming up small in 2 of my losses, and big in all 3 wins. In one loss I deployed them when I shouldn't have, and then didn't commit them when I should have. The other one I rolled a 2+2+1 for my 3D6 charge. The Meta was vehicle crazy, so I was thinking of dropping a wyvren for a 3rd BA character.
Problem is I can't figure out which character. Another Captain Hammer or Lemartes, I can't pick which one. Captain Hammer hits harder, but Lemartes is no slouch and he buffs the DC to prevent the 2+2+1 charge roll.

With 15 DC lemartes is a must have.

tag8833 wrote:

Question 2: Hive Guard + Neurothropes + Hive Tyrants gave me some fits. I never successfully cast a spell with Mephiston while in shadows that wasn't denied. He comes up big when there isn't psychic defense. But Tyranids are big, and I need him to do something more substantial in those games. I went 3-3, but 0-2 vs Nids. My other loss was to necrons and was because I didn't have enough terrain to hide a wyvren out of LOS. The game was mine if terrain had been a bit better, or if I had understood the doomsday ark's shooting gets weaker if they move.

Fight tyranids with their own weapons, get culexus assassin(s). Enemy psykers within 18" suffer -2 to psychic and deny the witch tests, and the culexus cannot be targeted of affected by psychic power in any way. Also he only gets hit on 6+.

tag8833 wrote:

Question 3: I never played them, but -2 to hit Aeldari Fliers were everywhere. Anyone got experience against that sort of army. One of the top lists was 3 Hemlocks, 3 Crimson Hunter Exarchs, 3 Wave Serpents, 2 Guardians, 1 Dire Avenger, 2 characters. I assume I should reserve my DC if I line up against a list like that.

 p5freak wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Question 3: I never played them, but -2 to hit Aeldari Fliers were everywhere. Anyone got experience against that sort of army. One of the top lists was 3 Hemlocks, 3 Crimson Hunter Exarchs, 3 Wave Serpents, 2 Guardians, 1 Dire Avenger, 2 characters. I assume I should reserve my DC if I line up against a list like that.

Relic sicaran battle tank, his main gun ignores any modifier when shooting FLY units. You can advance (its main gun is assault), and shoot that -2 to hit flyer without any negative modifier.

Doesn't it roll over and die as soon as an eldar flier looks at it? Seems like a fair solution if you go 1st, but if not aren't you mainly throwing points away?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Question 2: Hive Guard + Neurothropes + Hive Tyrants gave me some fits. I never successfully cast a spell with Mephiston while in shadows that wasn't denied. He comes up big when there isn't psychic defense. But Tyranids are big, and I need him to do something more substantial in those games. I went 3-3, but 0-2 vs Nids. My other loss was to necrons and was because I didn't have enough terrain to hide a wyvren out of LOS. The game was mine if terrain had been a bit better, or if I had understood the doomsday ark's shooting gets weaker if they move.

Fight tyranids with their own weapons, get culexus assassin(s). Enemy psykers within 18" suffer -2 to psychic and deny the witch tests, and the culexus cannot be targeted of affected by psychic power in any way. Also he only gets hit on 6+.

Very Likely Celestine turns into 2 Culexuses and an Eversor.

tag8833 wrote:
Doesn't it roll over and die as soon as an eldar flier looks at it? Seems like a fair solution if you go 1st, but if not aren't you mainly throwing points away?

It has T7 W14. If the eldar players wants it dead, yes, can happen.

Okay how stupid my 1st turn charge was. I had ba(slam captain with enchanced fnp warlord), lib dred, chaplain, 3x5 tac spuad with plasmas, 2 heavy support squad, 10 death company with thunder hammer and 2 powerfist plus 2 inferno pistol. Also ig with 2 company commander, 4 inf squad, 3 mortar and finally 2 armiger. Was up against dark angel with azrael firebase, land raider with tacticals inside, some bikes. Scenario was hold objective from both dz sudden death.

So i got first turn and as there had been good los screen in case i go 2nd had moved death company forward. With this i decided to charge so sent captain slam and death company. Alas had been too confident so armigers and las devastators had tickled predator. Also forgot inf pistol. Charge succeeded but partly forgetting red thirst(my first game with ba on 8th), partly him rolling 5/6 5+ save land raider took only 3 damage.

On his turn he wiped captain, death company and left 1 knight to 1 wound losing both next turn.

So apart from bad luck should i have charged or not? Had planned to use captain to get the plasmd cannon devastators or the -1 to hit model if in reach. Or death company if they alive instead. As it is with all 4 forward elements out couldn't hope to hold both objectives and soon came clear even draw was hopeless. Lib dread took land raider but krak missile(3) and bolters(3) took him to 2 wounds and opposite dred finished with fist. Lack of inv save hurts

I think I would have held. Killing the LR is not a big priority. You want charges where you can take hostages.