Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 killerpenguin wrote:

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
Does anyone know any good support units to run with an Alpha Legion infiltrating infantry build?

My army is based around MSU melta/Plasma Chosen with Cultist and CSM support, but I need some supporting units. My HQ is a winged DP with Drakescale Plate and a Sorceror biker with Mindveil. I also have a forgefiend (autocannons). Since I can't use cult troops my infantry options are quite limited.

Should I invest in bikers to go with the Mindveil Sorceror? Should I use Oblits or would they not be too useful as they can't infiltrate? Would a Pred or Vindicator work as they are faster than Oblits? What about a Hellturkey or do they suck?

So many questions...

I have just over 500 pts left, any help is much appreciated.

Get a helfist murder pack with 5 plasma cannons and PF. 550 Pts.

Tempting indeed. I probably won't run 5 as I intend on taking bikes for a Mindveil Melee DeathStar with the Sorceror.

A better suggestion might be the deepstriking mayhem pack with multi meltas and PF or heavy flamer or termicide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A better suggestion might be the deepstriking mayhem pack with multi meltas and PF or heavy flamer or termicide.

 killerpenguin wrote:
A better suggestion might be the deepstriking mayhem pack with multi meltas and PF or heavy flamer or termicide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A better suggestion might be the deepstriking mayhem pack with multi meltas and PF or heavy flamer or termicide.

Yeah that sound better than having the warpsmith tax.

FYI the Helfist Murderpack is the Squadron of five Helbrutes with a Character with an invuln and no Warpsmith tax

I tried the idea of having Iron Warriors CAD with a lot of oblits mixed in with AL, but i never bothered fielding the list.

Has anybody considered taking the Tidewall, armoured containers and a Night Lords detachment?

The Night Lords detachment ensures that it's night fighting(Which you ignore) but gives you stealth and a +1 on top of that to cover saves.

The Tidewall gives you a total of 2+ cover saves, moves you 6 inches a turn and every cover save you make either causes a wound or a hull point back on a 6. That means if you are forced to take 36 cover saves, you'll lose 6 and cause 5 back.

Put the Munitions Dump box in the center so you reroll 1s with your Plasma, or take the barrels and give all your flamers Torrent. Or put in both and some Obliterators and watch the hilarity as you have 2+ cover save Obliterators with torrenting heavy flamers and rerolls of 1s for shooting.

Total cost: 100 points for both plus your army.

^^ I have thought of that, but in a tournament setting, cover saves are usually ignored. On top of that, Chaos doesnt really have unholy amounts of fire power, so what is the best that you are putting behind the wall? The best I can think of is a bunch of sicarans or oblits. But they can only do so much to a riptide or wraithknight.

 lindsay40k wrote:
FYI the Helfist Murderpack is the Squadron of five Helbrutes with a Character with an invuln and no Warpsmith tax

mistook it for the Helforged Warpack sorry.

If i bring the Helbrute


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 killerpenguin wrote:
If i bring the Helbrute

Hehe, didn't finish the question! I was gonna ask if I got infiltrate on my cultists if I brought the helbrute and cultist formation in a Alfa legion CAD? Not sure how that works.

 killerpenguin wrote:
If i bring the Helbrute


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 killerpenguin wrote:
If i bring the Helbrute

Hehe, didn't finish the question! I was gonna ask if I got infiltrate on my cultists if I brought the helbrute and cultist formation in a Alfa legion CAD? Not sure how that works.

The Helcult? I'm pretty sure you would. There are no rules on how far you have to be from the Helbrute.

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:
If i bring the Helbrute


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 killerpenguin wrote:
If i bring the Helbrute

Hehe, didn't finish the question! I was gonna ask if I got infiltrate on my cultists if I brought the helbrute and cultist formation in a Alfa legion CAD? Not sure how that works.

The Helcult? I'm pretty sure you would. There are no rules on how far you have to be from the Helbrute.

Yes, helcult. Not too sure about that, They don't get objective secured so I guess they won't get infiltrate either.

 killerpenguin wrote:

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:
If i bring the Helbrute


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 killerpenguin wrote:
If i bring the Helbrute

Hehe, didn't finish the question! I was gonna ask if I got infiltrate on my cultists if I brought the helbrute and cultist formation in a Alfa legion CAD? Not sure how that works.

The Helcult? I'm pretty sure you would. There are no rules on how far you have to be from the Helbrute.

Yes, helcult. Not too sure about that, They don't get objective secured so I guess they won't get infiltrate either.

The rules say that the units gain infiltrate, it makes no mention of any formations. I would assume it extends to any units that are supposed to be Alpha Legion. Perhaps make a post in you make da call?

If you declare any detachment or formation to be part of a legion it gains the legion bonuses (and has to apply by legion restrictions)

so yes, an alpha legion helcult has infiltrating cultists, but you wouldn't be able to take marks.

Hmm. 35-strong, Fearless, Infiltrating blob. Shame you can't guarantee an Infiltrating Daemonologist!

Development of that idea: Alpha Legion & Death Guard alliance. AL infiltrates big Cultist units, DG bikers zoom up to their vicinity escorting a character with Poxwalker Hive. Boom, FNP Fearless replenishing zombie horde in their face. Against armies without common S6 anti-infantry weapons, that's going to be quite a formidable tarpit. The uninflected can G2G and then next turn immediately pop up out of cover to eat brains. Even if they get flamered and break, they'll turn around and be a threat again. (Note that they will still need to Regroup and thus won't immediately charge the unit that torched them.)

Sure you can. Huron and ahriman give d3 units infiltrate, so that's at least 1 infiltrating unit, the daemonologist. Though a flying prince works just as well, assuming it can stay alive long enough.

Aha. Then, this is doable:
- Huron or Ahriman as general in their own CAD or formation
- bunch of Daemonologists, perhaps Word Bearers but by no means essential
- AL Helcult
- the Daemonologist that gets Possession Infiltrates and hulks out on turn 1

Alpha legion helcult sounds like a good way to bring fearless cultists on the board.
I have recently acquired 5 helbrutes, I have magnetised them, so I have some options. The bare bones multi melta mayhem pack or the 5x plasma cannon murder pack. I've looked through traitor legions, the helforged warpack is an option. If I pay the warpsmith tax, I get a 4++ on a helbrute Alpha.

Other than those, are there any formations I can bring my helbrutes in?

I am looking for some good 1500 points (as this is the max we play in my area) Black Legion builds for competitive games under friends and maybe some casual tournaments .

So this is the last list i played against tyranid skyblight swarm with some morgons.

I won the game (although it was really close), but i want to improve the list a bit, cause i had the feeling it lacks something.
Also first turn deepstrike is also kind of risky, i found out in the game. As half of my guys didn't come in on first turn, the rest came in turn 2 and 3.

So how would you improve my list? What does it lack? Can it compete against some harder lists out there?

Black Legion Speartip

The Hounds of Abaddon

Chaos Lord (1) - 150pts
1 Chaos Lord: Frag and krak grenades,Power fist,Lightning claw,Chaos bike,FREE Mark of Khorne,Sigil of corruption,Veterans of the Long War

Chaos Bikers (3) - 100pts Veterans of the Long War, ,FREE Mark of Khorne
1 Chaos Biker Champion: Close combat weapon,Bolt pistol,Twin-linked boltgun
2 Chaos Biker: Plasma gun,Twin-linked boltgun,Bolt pistol

Chaos Space Marines (5) - 95pts Veterans of the Long War, ,FREE Mark of Khorne
1 Aspiring Champion: Champion of Chaos,Close combat weapon,Bolt pistol,Boltgun,Melta bombs
1 Chaos Space Marine: Plasma gun,Bolt pistol
3 Chaos Space Marine: Boltgun,Bolt pistol

Khorne Berzerkers (5) - 110pts Veterans of the Long War
1 Berzerker Champion: Champion of Chaos,Close combat weapon,Bolt pistol,Melta bombs
4 Berzerker: Close combat weapon,Bolt pistol

The Chosen of Abaddon

Chaos Terminators (3) - 124pts Veterans of the Long War
1 Terminator Champion: Combi-melta,Power weapon
1 Chaos Terminator: Combi-melta,Chainfist
1 Chaos Terminator: Combi-melta,Power weapon

Sorcerer (1) - 150pts
1 Sorcerer: Frag and krak grenades,Force weapon,Bolt pistol,Jump pack,Psyker (Mastery Level 3),Sigil of corruption,Veterans of the Long War

Chaos Terminators (3) - 107pts Veterans of the Long War
1 Terminator Champion: Combi-bolter,Power weapon
1 Chaos Terminator: Combi-flamer,Power fist
1 Chaos Terminator: Combi-bolter,Power weapon

Sorcerer (1) - 155pts
1 Sorcerer: Frag and krak grenades,Force weapon,Bolt pistol,Jump pack,Psyker (Mastery Level 2),Sigil of corruption,Last Memomry of the Yuranthos,Veterans of the Long War

Raptor Talon

Chaos Lord (1) - 80pts
1 Chaos Lord: Frag and krak grenades,Power weapon,Bolt pistol,FREE Jump pack,Veterans of the Long War

Raptors (5) - 120pts Veterans of the Long War
1 Raptor Champion: Champion of Chaos,Close combat weapon,Bolt pistol,Melta bombs
2 Raptor: CloseCombatWeapon,Meltagun
2 Raptor: CloseCombatWeapon,Bolt pistol

Raptors (5) - 120pts Veterans of the Long War
1 Raptor Champion: Champion of Chaos,Close combat weapon,Bolt pistol,Melta bombs
2 Raptor: CloseCombatWeapon,Meltagun
2 Raptor: CloseCombatWeapon,Bolt pistol

Raptors (5) - 120pts Veterans of the Long War
1 Raptor Champion: Champion of Chaos,Close combat weapon,Bolt pistol,Melta bombs
2 Raptor: CloseCombatWeapon,Meltagun
2 Raptor: CloseCombatWeapon,Bolt pistol

Spawn

Chaos Spawn (1) - 30pts
1 Chaos Spawn

Chaos Spawn (1) - 30pts
1 Chaos Spawn


Looking forward to some advise from you =).

I'd say the mayhem pack is your best bet. This formation of 3 Helbrutes gives them all IWND, Deep-Striking, and a shared roll on the Crazed table, even if they've never been hit.

If you're running more than one or two deepstriking units then always, ALWAYS take a comm relay. Almost any fortification can take it, but Bastions are especially good since they're so cheap for what you get. 4 heavy bolters on an AV14 hull gets you a solid starting deployment unit that greatly reduces turn 1 null deployment losses. Stick your 5 regular marines in it, throw the Berzerkers in a dreadclaw, and drop almost everything down turn 1.

Thanks for the advice, but unfortunately i don't have a bastion or a dreadclaw =(.

What do you think about the bringers of despair in a Black Legion spear tip detachment?

The Bringers of Despair

Abaddon the Despoiler (1) - 265pts
1 Abaddon the Despoiler

Chaos Terminators (4) - 155pts Veterans of the Long War
1 Terminator Champion: Combi-melta,Power weapon
1 Chaos Terminator: Combi-melta,Power weapon
1 Chaos Terminator: Combi-bolter,Power weapon
1 Chaos Terminator: Combi-melta,Chainfist

420 Points total


Made this config, but it is really expansive with 420 points in a 1500 point game.

My only issue would be getting that anywhere without a Dreadclaw, which is another 265 points to spend.

Yeah for sure, but don't have one =(. So i only can deepstrike them or put them in an raider for 235 points.

Some ideas for my army i posted above? Are there things i could make better?

If you're going Land Raider, might as well pay more for the Spartan instead.

 Darksider wrote:
Yeah for sure, but don't have one =(. So i only can deepstrike them or put them in an raider for 235 points.

Some ideas for my army i posted above? Are there things i could make better?

I would probably DS Abba with 3 termies with power axe and combi melta on all of them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It would suck if they come in turn 4 though.

Funny you guys should be talking about the Bringers of Despair, as I was just considering that formation myself. I'd need to get Abaddon and some Chaos Termies first, but it seems like a decent formation. I'm not sure why you really never see Abaddon in competitive play; he's a monster in CC. I guess the problem is getting him into combat. Perhaps the reason no one takes him is the same reason no one takes Marneus Calgar in competitive play either. I still might like to try the formation; choosing a loadout for the termies is the hard part. I would think it might be worth it to take a heavy weapon like an autocannon to make the most of their improved ballistic skill, but 25 points...

Expensive, no sweeping, no grenades, no mobility, no ranged ability and a warlord trait that is way to situational. That's not the most attractive package.
The bringers on the other hand are a pretty nasty unit, but not without issues and as you noticed, expensive since they have to include abaddon. I prefer them with plasma combis though.
Makes abbies trait pretty brutal if you get to use it, plus it allows them to engage at range if need be.

 Roknar wrote:
Expensive, no sweeping, no grenades, no mobility, no ranged ability and a warlord trait that is way to situational. That's not the most attractive package.
The bringers on the other hand are a pretty nasty unit, but not without issues and as you noticed, expensive since they have to include abaddon. I prefer them with plasma combis though.
Makes abbies trait pretty brutal if you get to use it, plus it allows them to engage at range if need be.

You don't want to sweep with that unit though as it'll help protect them from incoming fire being in melee, and honestly despite how gakky Abigail is they've all got Hatred and attacks out the wazoo. Not being able to sweep isn't really the issue here if you think about it for like a few seconds.

Yea I was referring to abaddon on his own. Bringers joined by abaddon are more than likely to sweep a unit by straight up slaughtering any opposition. Though I suppose there's no reason to get abaddon on his own when you can get a unit of bad ass termies along with him.
Don't forget they fit in a regular dreadclaw though, you don't HAVE to go all out on the kharybdis. You run less of a risk of wiping units with a squad of 5.

 Roknar wrote:
Yea I was referring to abaddon on his own. Bringers joined by abaddon are more than likely to sweep a unit by straight up slaughtering any opposition. Though I suppose there's no reason to get abaddon on his own when you can get a unit of bad ass termies along with him.
Don't forget they fit in a regular dreadclaw though, you don't HAVE to go all out on the kharybdis. You run less of a risk of wiping units with a squad of 5.

Regular Claw doesn't have Inertial Guidance and (however helpful it might be) a bunch of S6 pinning shots.