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I don't see Tervigon's as HQ choices being the best choice.

I like them as a troop choice though.

if your not taking a brood lord with genestealers you can't be competitive

I think 2 HT builds are better than brood lord builds in the current codex.

Holy Crap! 50 Pages! Please say that's a rumor sub forum record!


OT:

I'm worried about what the Tervigon's weakness is going to be... probably point cost or some strange Instant Death issue like toughness 4(5) or some such.

Edit: On second thought, that wasn't really on topic, so yeah.... cool tentacle squid thing...

I plan on keeping my Tervigons in the rear, pumping out reinforcements. I just hope that each turn's output from each separate Tervigon is not required to stay a discrete unit. That would be really irritating.

I am more curious about what the Tervigons *strength* is going to be.

I mean, its not bad, but nothing strikes me as spectacular.

well here is the stats i have seen:

TERVIGON
WS3 BS3 S5 T6 W6 I1 A3 LD10 Sv3+ Type: MC, costs less than Venerable Dread
- may spawn 3D6 termagants per movement phase which may be activated as normal, but on a double he can no longer spawn anything from now on
- Spike blaster 18" S5 Ap5 Assault 4
- Termagants within 6" may use his LD and gain Furious charge nad Poison (if Tervigon also have these, each costing around 2 Spinegaunts)
- If he dies, Gaunts near suffers 3D6 S3 Ap- hits
- Has Dominate psi power (18” Synapse) and may exchange it for (each one costing around 3 Spinegaunts):
The catalyst: a unit within 12 gains Feel No Pain USR
The force: unit within 12 may run/fleet AND shoot

so its a pretty decent cost, with lots of nice benefits. yes, they are gaunts. but every little bit helps. plus, he is a troop choice if a gaunt squad is taken. so of all the things the choice change and the ability to spawn units is what the major perks are.

Well, with all of those other benefits, perhaps I might not keep them in the backfield after all. Imagine, termagaunts with FNP and a Venomthrope around for a 5+ Invulnerable save, and assault 3 devourers? That's brutal. Plus, I now humbly request that some Tyranid emoticons be added to the selection on the left.

yes, and now imagine 5 of them running around. now every gaunt squad have FNP, furious charge, and poision.

like i said, i hope they don't get spammed too bad. i only know of two other tyranid players in my area so i have no worries.

Sneezypanda wrote:yes, and now imagine 5 of them running around. now every gaunt squad have FNP, furious charge, and poision.

like i said, i hope they don't get spammed too bad. i only know of two other tyranid players in my area so i have no worries.

Naww, gotta save some points for Hive Guard. They are promising.

midzilla isn't going to work for the same reasons why it didn't work in 3e. Imperial guard pieplates pick up entire squads, and most armies will have enough s8 shooting to make clearing the table in short order a reasonable objective. Powerfists and meltaguns will further compound the damage done.

AoD, nidzilla has nothing to do with squads as such mate.
You will find now that they are running something along these lines:

HQ:
Flyrant
tyrant

Elite:
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope

Troop:
5 warriors
5 warriors
(possibly more?)

Heavy:
trygon
mawloc
1-3 fex's


So, you have 2 DS'ing MC's that can pop up behind the russ's if needed.
Fex's will laugh at battlecannons.
The thropes will provide saves all round from shooting in most cases.

Also, i havent included the tervi, harpy or others since im unsure of how they work in lists.



also remember that a nid player can now bring 9 fex's to the table, much like guard can bring 3 russ's per choice

Sneezypanda wrote:well here is the stats i have seen:

TERVIGON
WS3 BS3 S5 T6 W6 I1 A3 LD10 Sv3+ Type: MC, costs less than Venerable Dread
- may spawn 3D6 termagants per movement phase which may be activated as normal, but on a double he can no longer spawn anything from now on
- Spike blaster 18" S5 Ap5 Assault 4
- Termagants within 6" may use his LD and gain Furious charge nad Poison (if Tervigon also have these, each costing around 2 Spinegaunts)
- If he dies, Gaunts near suffers 3D6 S3 Ap- hits
- Has Dominate psi power (18” Synapse) and may exchange it for (each one costing around 3 Spinegaunts):
The catalyst: a unit within 12 gains Feel No Pain USR
The force: unit within 12 may run/fleet AND shoot

so its a pretty decent cost, with lots of nice benefits. yes, they are gaunts. but every little bit helps. plus, he is a troop choice if a gaunt squad is taken. so of all the things the choice change and the ability to spawn units is what the major perks are.

That's quite a hardy troops choice, definitely. Leaving one hanging around a real objective is probably enough to destroy any outflanking IG squad And T6/W6 is tough enough make quickly killing one impossible without ignoring the inevitable 20-30 FC-FNP-gaunts surrounding it. The best plan seems to be to ignore the walking womb and simply blast its retinue into pulpus pieces. Alone, it doesn't hit that hard, and I'm willing to bet it can't pop out new pups if engaged in close combat.

That's just it. Even with only 1 carnifex per spore pod Mech shouldn't auto-steamroll nidzilla anymore.

Take the dakkafexes (or whatever you prefer), drop to the rear or side of a tank/apc and destroy it. Now with dakkafexes going from 8 shots rerolling to 12 shots rerolling you gain 4 more shots at the same strength. 12 S6 shots rerolling misses to the ass of a Rhino or Chimera or Serpant or anything not a LR should explode or at least become immobile.

Tyrants can now pop vehicles with the VC. Sure the shot scatters but it doesn't always scatter, it does hit on occasion (for the groups IG player his pie plates always roll hits and he uses the same die everyone else does so it's not loaded die).

I see Nidzilla being more viable (not taking into consideration the new big bugs); mixed sounds fun and viable, stealer shock is doable (moreso as BL is a squad upgrade and stealers are cheaper and arguably hit harder in exchange for a small amount of survivability); horde is doable (don't take the 2x the cost fexes in heavy, take trygons and horde is still cheaper and more numerous) than currently.

I'm not kissing the GW ass. I seriously don't see any negatives to how the army plays or how MY army plays. To those who spammed 'fexes in 4th because that was the Tyranid cheese......well maybe you should have built an army for fluff and fun, not because the 113pt dakkafex was the most broken unit in the game during 4th ed.

Fateweaver wrote:well maybe you should have built an army for fluff and fun, not because the 113pt dakkafex was the most broken unit in the game during 4th ed.

QFT

I still don't like the idea behind it and i personly like the changes with the dakkafex i may take one in a pod but i never have one list i always have 5-7 heavy supports for example so i have so good choice not one solid list.

well maybe you should have built an army for fluff and fun

Winning is fun, though.

But winning at ALL costs leaves you friendless, lonely and going to tournaments where people HAVE to play you.

Who said anything about winning at ALL costs? I don't tailor lists or bend the rules.

I get the feeling that playing to win is a crime sometimes.

Oh, don't take this the wrong way.
I play to win too. Most of the time I enjoy a game more if I win.

I also know that if I have beaten my friends for the umphteenth time in a row, it might be a smart move to tone it down a bit so they enjoy our time together too.

I was simply refering to people who feel the need to win at ALL costs. "At ALL costs" also include making the absolutly strongest list available to play against your friends and hiding behind "they can just play better", when told that it might not be the smartest thing to do.

OT question...who started the phrase "win at all costs"? Was that a Warseer concoction? Because that literally leaves open the idea of assaulting the guy in the parking lot so that you win by forfeit. Sure, you probably get arrested afterward. But you WON. I find it such a silly phrase to use in conjunction with a tabletop game that involves very few real "costs". /rant off

Back OT, I agree with others the Tervigon doesn't look to assault or shoot well. It's more of a buff unit. Which means the right approach isn't about spamming Tervigons so much as figuring out the right kind of army in which Tervigons would fit.

Shooty armies seem to be a possibility, as we discussed earlier. Some guys on Warpshadow were talking up devourer Gaunts, based on rumors of a good profile for devourers (if expensive). If true, Tervigons might be a good escort. You park the Gaunts in cover and blaze away, with the FNP there if you need it. Having a 4++, 4+ kinda helps the fragility of the T3, Sv6+ platform versus basic firepower. But who knows what the weapon profiles really are? We've had contradictory information how many times now...

Since when did tervigon appear?

I fanyone wants to see what actually IN the codex OFFICIALY then look in White Dwarf.

Mawloc does a st6 ap2 hit when it appears! By by terminators!

Steelmage99 wrote:
I was simply refering to people who feel the need to win at ALL costs. "At ALL costs" also include making the absolutly strongest list available to play against your friends and hiding behind "they can just play better", when told that it might not be the smartest thing to do.

Correct, the best part about "win at all costs" people is their predictability which generally makes them easy to beat, you know what you are going against generally and if you present some mathhammer-easy bait they will take it 90% of the time

But thats just it, the Tervigon can't just "pump out gaunts". According to rumor, it stops when any doubles comes up. So that means about a 50% chance it only gets to make *one* extra brood, or about 10 gaunts

Using them to 'buff' devilgaunts is cool. But I am guessing the Tervigon is about 150ish points. That is an expensive buff for a unit of gaunts.

Again, these make them a reasonable choice, but I don't see them as being so good that everyone is spamming them.

Well, in objective-based games I think it appears to have some value...provided those objectives aren't on the other side of the table. There aren't many (any?) MCs in the game that can actually hold objectives. Tervigons and Warriors are improvements over relying on Gaunt units for that duty. And it might bring along a unit or two of objective holders that you didn't have to pay the points for. I'm not sure Tervigons accomplish much outside of that niche, however.

I'm similarly lukewarm on Terrorfexes. Their big gun is great and fills a need. However, they supposedly cost as much as a LR, fill a valuable HS slot, and its weaponry doesn't synergize well, IMO.

It'll be interesting to see how many Tervigons and Terrorfexes end up being scratchbuilt. My gut feeling is that most players will end up defaulting back to the basic stuff, like with IG and Leman Russes and their variants.

The caveat to all of this is of course that playing even one game with the full rules would tell us so much more than our Theoryhammer.

AoD, nidzilla has nothing to do with squads as such mate.
You will find now that they are running something along these lines:

he said MID-zilla, which is different from NID-zilla. mid-zilla is using stuff like raveners and warrriors, they are the MID-level creatures.

Its a one to one ratio so at most you are going to have 3 tervigons as troop choices but then you only have 6 troop choices.

2 squads of 20 devilgaunt droppoding
2 Tervigons to stay in reserve come on board and pump out some small squads to claim home base.
2 Squads of Genestealers


Pretty damn decent and effective.

So any thoughts on Trygon Primes/Alphas/whatever?

Per the rumors, for the cost of 10 spinegaunts you can upgrade a Trygon to have Ld 10, synapse, shadow of the warp, and an Assault 12 bioelectric field rather than Assault 6.

Seems like decent value for 10 additional spinegaunts, but then you're looking at 50 spineguants overall for the unit. At first glance, it seems like it might make more sense if you're not dropping in other synapse creatures and less sense if you are.

I'm not sure Tervigons accomplish much outside of that niche, however.

Yeah spamming Tervigons seems silly. However a couple do seem to slot in pretty well in a revamped nidzilla list, being able to score, buff the army and create/protect scorers. They look to me like the replacement for dakka-fexes in a way - a relatively cheap non-heavy MC. They give up half the dakka fexes shooting in order to buff and birth, but I can see alot of current nidzilla guys trading in there devouerers for eggsacs.

Also everyone talks about buffing gaunts with tervigons. They don't just buff gaunts by the sounds of it. Hive guard, zoanthropes, venomthropes, Stealers or warriors with feel no pain? I guess that is a big reason why I wouldn't spam them, you'll want to put something other then tervigons and termagants in the troop slots.

Finally, the doubles thing on the birthing is a nice balancer. How I see the tervigon is as a psuedo transport with a random number of termaganuts inside and not some replacement to WoN. I'd never count on more then 1 unit and I'd only birth them (aka disembark) when really needed. Like later game to grab objectives or when tervigon is prolly gonna die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Seems like decent value for 10 additional spinegaunts, but then you're looking at 50 spineguants overall for the unit. At first glance, it seems like it might make more sense if you're not dropping in other synapse creatures and less sense if you are.

Yeah, I can see an army designed around using those tunnels or maybe pods would swing for the extra points. It really hinges on whether synapse is needed to retain scoring status though. If synpase is that important, then yeah. If not, then it is still worthwhile but not absolutely neccessary.

I understood that all the Tervigons' abilities are psychic powers that require the psychic test to use and have a limited range. Psychic hoods and runic weapons etc make the FNP much less reliable. The rumours also seem to point to a 150p price tag which is anything but cheap for a monster that doesn't really excel in anything. It's interesting though.

What I'm not so happy about is that there doesn't seem to be any real reason not to use all the HS choices on a mix of Trygons and Mawlocs. Carnifexes simply can't compete. A Carnifex that buys the spore pod already costs more than a Trygon (T6 W6) that can deep strike by default. GW just has to sell three of the new Trygon/Mawloc kits and a bunch of Hive Guards to every Nid player out there, and the rules are there to make sure it happens.

Sidstyler wrote:

well maybe you should have built an army for fluff and fun

Winning is fun, though.

I won most of my games under 4th and 5th running 2 Lictors and a brood of Warriors as elites. Granted I didn't play tournaments but IMO tournaments are what is ruining 40k and I'm not the only one in my group who thinks so. I just didn't want to be TFG who steamrolled my friends because they played balanced lists and I took "TFG" list. We make our lists up, then roll off to see who plays who so list tailoring is nearly impossible which means 3 elite carnifexes would have been a "TFG douchebag" move.

24 days to go till codex is in my hands (maybe sooner since I preordered it).

I just didn't want to be TFG who steamrolled my friends because they played balanced lists and I took "TFG" list.

While you and your friends can play how you want, don't judge others by how they play. "Play my way, which is subjective and just an opinion, or you are a douche TFG." Whose the douche again?

winterman wrote:

I just didn't want to be TFG who steamrolled my friends because they played balanced lists and I took "TFG" list.

While you and your friends can play how you want, don't judge others by how they play. "Play my way, which is subjective and just an opinion, or you are a douche TFG." Whose the douche again?

Agreed.

What is TFG in one context may be normal in another. Case in point, each player in my group (about 8 close friends) uses competitive, tourney-worthy lists unless we're just completely fething around.