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Alright winterman, I'm not looking to drag this thread down further.

I was just making the statement that people who power game and took 3 elite carnifexes should just shut up and stop crying about them now being relegated to heavy for twice the cost.

Taking 8 MC's against a balanced list is being "TFG". It's like a pro-athlete competing in the special olympics just because he knows he can't be beat. He'd be called "TFG" and would deserve it regardless of what his other pro-athlete friends thought.

If you took offense that's your problem. I was just pointing out to Sid and others that when you spam and make a broken list don't cry when it's squatted the next time around (as a lot of people are doing here in regards to their 3 broken carnifex builds).

Therion wrote:I understood that all the Tervigons' abilities are psychic powers that require the psychic test to use and have a limited range. Psychic hoods and runic weapons etc make the FNP much less reliable. The rumours also seem to point to a 150p price tag which is anything but cheap for a monster that doesn't really excel in anything. It's interesting though.

What I'm not so happy about is that there doesn't seem to be any real reason not to use all the HS choices on a mix of Trygons and Mawlocs. Carnifexes simply can't compete. A Carnifex that buys the spore pod already costs more than a Trygon (T6 W6) that can deep strike by default. GW just has to sell three of the new Trygon/Mawloc kits and a bunch of Hive Guards to every Nid player out there, and the rules are there to make sure it happens.

Fact is that montrous creatures are all (more) expensive now (At least 150 as far as I saw it) If the enemy can concentrate all his firepower on only a few MCs then you have problems (Hive Tyrants blasted away and heavy guns poiting at warriors killing your synapse). I think then broods of Carnifexes come to play to overload your enemy with T6 targets. Spore pods are more of a gimick. With three Trygons, your won't have much points/slots for other big ones (600 points in heavies plus Tyrant which is at least 16-17 old hormas).

At the moment, I am pretty satisfied with the codex for not being all too obvious with it's unit options. Nidzilla seems harder to pull off and is pretty expensive.

Greets
Schepp himself

Take crap units or else you are a morally bankrupt person that needs to stop playing 40k and check yourself into rehab. Dakkafexen are too good...WAAC. Taking multiple Carnifexen isn't a theme or a viable army type...it's a WAAC move to crush the spirits of good, honest, casual players. DEATH TO NIDZILLA PLAYERS!

Back in normal land; anyone else excited about the prospectrs of a three man Screamer-Killer brood with FnP via Tervigon? It may not be the most competative (hell, that'l like five hundred points), but it may be fun to run twelve T6, 3+/4+ wounds at a player anmd watch them freak out. At least until Plasma Weapon start showing up.

Taking multiple Carnifexen isn't a theme or a viable army type...it's a WAAC move to crush the spirits of good, honest, casual players. DEATH TO NIDZILLA PLAYERS!

Atleast that's a good example of the WAAC-kneejerk crowd being in the wrong. I remember reading one of those Black Library 40K short story collections already years before Nidzilla was even possible and it depicted a Tyranid invasion from the perspective of a inmate imprisoned in an imperial city. I think there was one part where the Nids dropped like 50 Carnifexes with mycetic spores simply because there were some bunkers and walls to crush down. In my opinion there's a fluff excuse for fielding any type of Tyranid army imaginable, and 'My poor Nids are starving and they actually need to win battles so they can eat' is as good as any.

If Nidzilla is so fluffy how come most of the people that even thought of the concept were tournament players?

Since when do tournament players care about fluff? The other elite choices in the current 'Nid codex work just fine the way they are; Dakkafexen are only seen in lists by people that don't care about fluff.

I mean 2x Scytal carnifexes fit into elite but nobody takes them. Oh that's right because they are suboptimal. If we want to argue fluff I'm betting that those 50 carnifi were not shooting the walls of an imperial bastion to pieces with devoureres. In fact I'd say they were probably equivalent to HS cc fexes or screamer killers that have 2x talons and bio.

Again, spamming something that isn't really supposed to be an elite choice and then crying when the next time around it's made a heavy choice like it SHOULD be is juvenile and absurd.

I see people mentioning spamming Tervigons. Let me know how well that works for you in 4-6 years when the unit ceases to exist or gets a limitation put on it. You cry I'll just say "told you so".

Start with page 2 of the Tyranid codex:
"At the other end of the spectrum are full armies of Tyranid monstrous creatures" etc.

Back in normal land; anyone else excited about the prospectrs of a three man Screamer-Killer brood with FnP via Tervigon? It may not be the most competative (hell, that'l like five hundred points), but it may be fun to run twelve T6, 3+/4+ wounds at a player anmd watch them freak out. At least until Plasma Weapon start showing up.

I plan on playing around with that same general combo for the heck of it. Will likely throw in a venomthrope brood for the 5+ cover save as well (which btw affected the carnifex in the WD batrep, so sounds like that is intended). Just tank forward. Nice thing is the non MCs get a cover save behind the unit of carnis, instead of trying to cower behind a single ones legs.

I guess I am TFG then ...

I wonder then why everyone in my group is always asking to play me. I also wonder why we have a group of 20 players that meet every monday night and not once has anyone had anything but a great time.

I guess our group is all TFGs ...

But then how would that explain that our group HAAWGS puts on www.thekalm.com which fills up so fast you have to have your finger on the button before registration starts?

But then that would make the "fluff" gamers the TFGs ....

For the reason that no one wants to play them because they don't want to be called a TFG. But if I am calling fluff gamers TFGs then that makes me a TFGs.

But then I digress from the original point at hand which is a new exciting codex for gamers of all types to enjoy.

I hope this stupid reply has shown how stupid arguing the point with some stupid person (like myself) that you will rarely if ever see is as futile as it is ..... well ... STUPID!

Clay, count me in with TFG's then mate, since i see nothing wrong with it.
Someone wants to run 6 fex's? who gives a gak, its legal.

However, im guessing its just people who lose to armies like this alot that complain.



To be honest, if making a strong list makes you TFG, shouldnt it be changed to TSG? (That smart guy) since you know, they made an effective list and know how to play to its strengths.


Generally, TFG was applied to people who annoy while playing, from disputing every rule to wasting time, to time out a match.

I didn't say Nidzilla was not fluffy. I just find it odd that if we want to discuss fluff that every Tyranid Hive Fleet in existence only equip their "weedy" carnifi with 2 tl-devourers and their more durable carnifi with barbed strangler/venom cannon.

There are other options in the codex for carnifi than the 2 most spammed builds.

Well Clay, if everyone in your group builds tournament armies than of course Nidzilla isn't so great (in fact it sucks under 5th from what I hear) but under 4th edition I would have felt dirty taking 8 MC's against someone with a balanced list not designed to take my army on.

Let's just drop the argument. I don't care who TFG is, I'm just pointing out that to take an army against someone who has a severe handicap against your army is being TFG. I can't be TFG in my group because we build lists first and choose opponents after so while I know my odds are good at playing Marines none of the marine armies in my group are the same so I still can't tailor my list that efficiently to be anti-Marine.

You take offense at my comment thats your problem, not mine.

I have not played zilla since 4th. After that I played Ork horde, then Nugle demons, now I am playing something that should be Fateweavers favorite list, Fatecrusher. =P

I will be swinging my nids back into action with the release of the codex.

Though I am sad because I spent alot of time on my nids and these guys wont get that much use.

I'm guessing that's a winged tyrant?

Love the wings.

Yep winged dakka tyrant =P the Devs are moulded into his back.

Seconded. Why do you think you won't be able to use them?

D'oh! Clay ninja'd me! Let's just wait and see what the actual codex says.

Fateweaver wrote:I'm guessing that's a winged tyrant?

Love the wings.

I'm guessing those are LotR wings?

those builds may cost more, but the guns have also increased in power. its not fair to say that dakka tyrants and sniper fexs are dead, it just takes some re-modeling to get in line with the new codex. honestly, i would get bored with that exact same setup for years, i would love to get a chance to remodel some of my guys, but that is just me.

Honestly, there isn't any real reason to complain about Nidzilla as it is now, because it's practically the only army Tyranids can field and hope to win some of their games. The monstrous creatures are getting even more expensive and the other options are finally being brought up to par power per cost wise (most of them anyway). You didn't have to be some sort of mythical jerkhole WAAC tournament monster to see that, and not all people that liked fielding Godzilla style armies weren't WAAC people. It was a legitimate option that had real weaknesses and was ironically poor at close combat once the genestealers were killed off, if the Nid player took them.

I hate many of the changes in the book that come off as completely unnecessary, restrictive, or arbitrary but I'm still excited for the new stuff and new colorful biomorphs(ACID BLOOD). I'm not going to buy anything because, well, college but it's good to see the army evolve, at least in a "welp, change everything for changes sake and make all the stuff everyone used before suck and all the stuff people don't have awesome."

I don't like remodeling, I like an army to be clean and all be painted to the same standard. As my painting as improved since I last played this army any new models I add to it will look out of sorts (to me).

Very obsessive compulsive when it comes to my paint. My competitiveness extends beyond just the game portion. I will have to see what options the codex has in it. As of now I have this to work with.

3 x dakka fex
2 x sniper fex
3 x zoes
3 x tyrant guard
1 x sniper tyrant
1 x winged dakka tyrant
27 x ripper swarms
9 x spore mines

I used 4th edition rules to my advantage. I could deploy 6 troop choices made up of the rippers giving me basically the advantage of deploying last every game.

JD21290 wrote:AoD, nidzilla

here's your mistake


I said Midzilla, not Nidzilla, referring to a previous poster's postulation on the potency of the possibility of presenting a powerhouse performance by the tyranid midsized creatures.

I'm actually more and more curious as to how the Tervigons ability to produce Gaunts works.

Also here are some interesting questions

1. Does it have a Spore Pod Option?
2. Can it enter Via a Trygon tunnel?


These are important if it can do either of these enjoy 3 Deepstriking Tervigons who then produce 9 D6 gaunts as well as the other 20 man squads of termigaunts in your deployment zone on turn 2.

If it enters through a Trigons Tunnel Same thing. Show up with 3 produce 9 d6 gaunts.

Out of rolling 3d6 3 times you should not be able to roll again and one should manage to be able to produce more then again you could gt very luck and get to roll for each of them.

Either way You now have 6 monstrous creatures in your deployment zone and a Monstrous creature that buffs others with Feel No Pain.


Even if it doesn't get drop or the ability to enter via a tunnel.


Its still crazy with a Drop Pod army as it can just move 6 up Cast Catalyst on a Gaunt Squad and go to town.




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Its also of note that its whole dies each gaun squad takes 3d6 st3 hits is not terrible considering you can give the gaunts feel no pain.

3 Squads of 20 termagaunts with Feel no Pain with a Venomthrope giving them cover saves or do you shoot at the Tervigon and hope to kill some of them?

Not a pleasant choice.

There have to be some serious limitations imposed on the Tervigon, or else the codex writers really screwed up and it's this Codex's lash or nob bikers.

Its also of note that its whole dies each gaun squad takes 3d6 st3 hits is not terrible considering you can give the gaunts feel no pain.

3 Squads of 20 termagaunts with Feel no Pain with a Venomthrope giving them cover saves or do you shoot at the Tervigon and hope to kill some of them?

Not a pleasant choice.


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even better is that they can buff gaunts to be able to run and shoot now imagine getting that offf with gaunts deploying from a drop pod.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
even better is that they can buff gaunts to be able to run and shoot now imagine getting that offf with gaunts deploying from a drop pod.

People keep posting that the Tervigon's going to spit out Scoring Units. Scoring Units are units of Troops, but since the ones it makes were not purchased from the Troops section, would they Not be scoring?

Now what about the Tervigon's purchased as a Troop in their own right? Would that makes the ones it produces different or is that a whole other can of worms?

Well, placed my order today.

On the subject of TFG, Nidzilla etc.

I would say it most certainly is TFG to field the 8 MC List in a non-Tournament environment. At that stage, you are placing your win above the enjoyment of your opponent. But note the environment one, non-Tournament. If you and your opponent are into that scene, there is no reason you need to only play such lists in a Tournament. But for pick up games best to leave it at home and go a bit lighter.

Me, I've decided to buy my Nids following the various Apocalypse Datasheets. Much more fun in my opinion, and I ought to wind up with a decent sized collection of models I can make a variety of list strengths from.

If people play 8 MC lists outside of tournaments, or other such shenanigans like that, I don't really care, because their local scene will enforce the penalties against it when everyone gets sick of playing that guy and is no longer willing to. If people keep playing him, they probably don't mind, or at least can't complain since they know what they're getting themselves into.

That's just normal 1500 to 2000 point range. Ill go ahead and say that Nidzilla is going to be incredibly difficult when above 2000 points specifically ard boyz.

GW don't make codices for tournament players (otherwise they'd be written with fewer glaring holes in the rules). If taking eight monstrous creatures made you TFG and un-fun to play against then GW will have pulled the option to do so from the new, improved codex. That's the point of releasing a new codex right?

To recap:

Taking eight monstrous creatures doesn't make you TFG, it's fun to play against in a 'friendly' gaming environment.

or

GW will have removed the option to do so in the new (improved) Codex that is released in January.

Or option 3:GW doesn't really know what it's doing in the first place in regards to trying to write a book for or against the use of tourney players.

Railguns wrote:Or option 3:GW doesn't really know what it's doing in the first place in regards to trying to write a book for or against the use of tourney players.

GW have been writing rulebooks for years. I think you're just another internet complainer, it's highly unlikely that GW with their years of experience would make such a schoolboy error.

I think someone gonna get told off/banned meself.