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Hulksmash wrote:

Chumbalaya wrote:You guys do realize that you've been trolled for almost 50 pages, right?

Most certainly I've managed to hold myself back from overly commenting after I stated my position at the beginning. Minds aren't being changed here. It's just silly arguments

@TK

I have no idea. I haven't even decided what army I'm going to be running. I'll figure it out the week of

It is tough to pick which army to bring. I was torn between all of mine so I had the masses vote and of course Mech IG won by a small margin so it is Mech IG that will see the field. Fortunate for you all I dont have the points to bring out my crazy ard boyz build of destruction.

Was secretly rooting for DE as I havent played them at the GT level yet.

One quick clarification before I'm done with this thread-- earlier, I said that Grey Knight Strike Squads were one of the worst Troops units in the game. This is only the case if you intend to use them with transports, which greatly constrain many of their advantages-- on foot, they become much stronger, especially in 10-man squads with Psybolt ammunition.

This is sort of an unusual role in the modern 40k game, so it won't necessarily fit into every army, but the GKSS unit definitely has its strengths and isn't overall as bad as I had earlier claimed.

I prefer strike sitting on an objective or following the main attack to prevent ds in late game or a nasty suprise like doom dropping in and derailing forward progress.

Fetterkey wrote:One quick clarification before I'm done with this thread-- earlier, I said that Grey Knight Strike Squads were one of the worst Troops units in the game. This is only the case if you intend to use them with transports, which greatly constrain many of their advantages-- on foot, they become much stronger, especially in 10-man squads with Psybolt ammunition.

This is sort of an unusual role in the modern 40k game, so it won't necessarily fit into every army, but the GKSS unit definitely has its strengths and isn't overall as bad as I had earlier claimed.

I think more people would have agreed with you if you had said "worse in the codex", since while compared to other troop choices they're pretty good, they are overshadowed by everything else in that book

Luke_Prowler wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:One quick clarification before I'm done with this thread-- earlier, I said that Grey Knight Strike Squads were one of the worst Troops units in the game. This is only the case if you intend to use them with transports, which greatly constrain many of their advantages-- on foot, they become much stronger, especially in 10-man squads with Psybolt ammunition.

This is sort of an unusual role in the modern 40k game, so it won't necessarily fit into every army, but the GKSS unit definitely has its strengths and isn't overall as bad as I had earlier claimed.

I think more people would have agreed with you if you had said "worse in the codex", since while compared to other troop choices they're pretty good, they are overshadowed by everything else in that book

I wouldn't even say that they are the worst in the codex. If you want to go S5 stormbolter-spam, then strike squads are the best in the codex.

Fetterkey wrote:One quick clarification before I'm done with this thread-- earlier, I said that Grey Knight Strike Squads were one of the worst Troops units in the game. This is only the case if you intend to use them with transports, which greatly constrain many of their advantages-- on foot, they become much stronger, especially in 10-man squads with Psybolt ammunition.

This is sort of an unusual role in the modern 40k game, so it won't necessarily fit into every army, but the GKSS unit definitely has its strengths and isn't overall as bad as I had earlier claimed.

I don't quite see how. They can just stay in a rhino/chimera until they need to come out. Is it just a matter of points?

Tomb King wrote:
Table Quarters: GK > Nids
Victory Points: GK > Nids
Capture and Hold: GK > Nids
Kill Points: GK > Nids
Objective Games: GK <= Nids

I miss anything there? Maybe one scenario where I could see draigowing having an issue beating any nid build.

So Nids have the advantage in two of the three rulebook missions? Sounds pretty decent. Grey Knights aren't balanced around the rest because they're not meant to be, that's TOs coming up with missions of their own that is beneficial to different types of armies. In my own experience, for example, objectives are commonly 5 by default, making MSU armies better than they already are.

Hulksmash wrote:

Chumbalaya wrote:You guys do realize that you've been trolled for almost 50 pages, right?

Most certainly I've managed to hold myself back from overly commenting after I stated my position at the beginning. Minds aren't being changed here. It's just silly arguments

@TK

I have no idea. I haven't even decided what army I'm going to be running. I'll figure it out the week of

But it's kept me entertained...whenever I've run out of Dakka threads to look at, I just resubscribe to this! It's beautifully neverending!

Chumbalaya wrote:You guys do realize that you've been trolled for almost 50 pages, right?

Are you calling me a troll? /hug

Seriously though, I think that some good discussion has come out of this thread. Plus, TK and I are buddies now and people are getting games together for Adepticon.

pretre wrote:

Chumbalaya wrote:You guys do realize that you've been trolled for almost 50 pages, right?

Are you calling me a troll? /hug

Seriously though, I think that some good discussion has come out of this thread. Plus, TK and I are buddies now and people are getting games together for Adepticon.

I wish i lived in a place closer to civilization so I could attend such events. I'm jealous.

Surtur wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:One quick clarification before I'm done with this thread-- earlier, I said that Grey Knight Strike Squads were one of the worst Troops units in the game. This is only the case if you intend to use them with transports, which greatly constrain many of their advantages-- on foot, they become much stronger, especially in 10-man squads with Psybolt ammunition.

This is sort of an unusual role in the modern 40k game, so it won't necessarily fit into every army, but the GKSS unit definitely has its strengths and isn't overall as bad as I had earlier claimed.

I don't quite see how. They can just stay in a rhino/chimera until they need to come out. Is it just a matter of points?

Every turn that a Grey Knight Strike Squad stays in a Rhino or Chimera is a turn where they're wasting their storm bolters, which are a significant upgrade from standard bolters-- especially if given psybolt ammunition. Storm bolters will usually start being in range around turn 2. I would consider taking a Rhino-- it does have some situational utility and can always be used to block, screen, or Tank Shock-- but I wouldn't consider it a priority and overall consider GKSS to be a unit served best while on foot.

Didn't Hulksmash just go 5-0 at a GT with a whole bunch of strikes?

http://hulksmash-homeplace.blogspot.com/2012/02/dark-star-list.html

Just throwing that out there.

Monster Rain wrote:Didn't Hulksmash just go 5-0 at a GT with a whole bunch of strikes?

http://hulksmash-homeplace.blogspot.com/2012/02/dark-star-list.html

Just throwing that out there.

Yup, all on foot/sans transport as fetter was mentioning. Outside of tossing in 5 strikes into a landraider/etc as deepstrike insurance, on foot en masse seems to be "the way to go" when running them.

And he mentioned this thread when he originally posted the list. Which makes it funnier.

pretre wrote:And he mentioned this thread when he originally posted the list. Which makes it funnier.

And people continued to argue their non viability for like 30 more pages. <trolling redacted --Janthkin>

Fetterkey wrote:

Surtur wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:One quick clarification before I'm done with this thread-- earlier, I said that Grey Knight Strike Squads were one of the worst Troops units in the game. This is only the case if you intend to use them with transports, which greatly constrain many of their advantages-- on foot, they become much stronger, especially in 10-man squads with Psybolt ammunition.

This is sort of an unusual role in the modern 40k game, so it won't necessarily fit into every army, but the GKSS unit definitely has its strengths and isn't overall as bad as I had earlier claimed.

I don't quite see how. They can just stay in a rhino/chimera until they need to come out. Is it just a matter of points?

Every turn that a Grey Knight Strike Squad stays in a Rhino or Chimera is a turn where they're wasting their storm bolters, which are a significant upgrade from standard bolters-- especially if given psybolt ammunition. Storm bolters will usually start being in range around turn 2. I would consider taking a Rhino-- it does have some situational utility and can always be used to block, screen, or Tank Shock-- but I wouldn't consider it a priority and overall consider GKSS to be a unit served best while on foot.

Fair enough. I figured it would give them a turn to use their psycannons to pop other transports then unload the next to engage infantry. Give them a turn or two of protection while the heavy guns are being silenced.

And as for hulksmash's results. Yeah, that kinda confirms what I thought about Strike Squads, just slightly different. No rhino.

ShumaGorath wrote:

pretre wrote:And he mentioned this thread when he originally posted the list. Which makes it funnier.

And people continued to argue their non viability for like 30 more pages. <trolling redacted --Janthkin>

Hulksmash is a pretty good player and generally place well with armies he bring. Does that imply that hulk is OP rather than the army?

Cladmir wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

pretre wrote:And he mentioned this thread when he originally posted the list. Which makes it funnier.

And people continued to argue their non viability for like 30 more pages. <trolling redacted --Janthkin>

Hulksmash is a pretty good player and generally place well with armies he bring. Does that imply that hulk is OP rather than the army?

The armies volume output of fire at 2000 points was downright impressive. I'd say a good player made a good list. I'd like to have seen his matchups, but at face value what he was fielding would appear to be quite capable against many popular builds.

Cladmir wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

pretre wrote:And he mentioned this thread when he originally posted the list. Which makes it funnier.

And people continued to argue their non viability for like 30 more pages. <trolling redacted --Janthkin>

Hulksmash is a pretty good player and generally place well with armies he bring. Does that imply that hulk is OP rather than the army?

I'm not sure. I've had the pleasure of playing against Hulksmash before and he's probably one of the best players I've met. That said, I don't think the army is necessarily OP, just strong (and unexpected, which can be almost as good). I'll be interested in seeing Hulk's battle reports from this event so I can see how the list plays against different matchups.

Fetterkey wrote:

Cladmir wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

pretre wrote:And he mentioned this thread when he originally posted the list. Which makes it funnier.

And people continued to argue their non viability for like 30 more pages. <trolling redacted --Janthkin>

Hulksmash is a pretty good player and generally place well with armies he bring. Does that imply that hulk is OP rather than the army?

I'm not sure. I've had the pleasure of playing against Hulksmash before and he's probably one of the best players I've met. That said, I don't think the army is necessarily OP, just strong (and unexpected, which can be almost as good). I'll be interested in seeing Hulk's battle reports from this event so I can see how the list plays against different matchups.

Likewise here Hulk played as close to a flawless game as I have ever seen and the game came painfully down to the wire. Im looking forward to a potential rematch in INDY. I would like to see the match-ups as well because behind every winning army regardless of its build or player tournaments do come down to match-ups some favorable while others leave you in the dungeon with nothing but a toothpick to dig your way out with.

Tomb King wrote:Likewise here Hulk played as close to a flawless game as I have ever seen and the game came painfully down to the wire. Im looking forward to a potential rematch in INDY. I would like to see the match-ups as well because behind every winning army regardless of its build or player tournaments do come down to match-ups some favorable while others leave you in the dungeon with nothing but a toothpick to dig your way out with.

Although I've never met him, I've read what he wrote and his BR's and would say that Hulksmash may be the most overpowered player GW has put out in a decade.

Seriously though, I like his style. He plays cool armies that aren't just the best netlist and does really well without having 'internet celebrity ego'. The only thing I don't agree on was the daemon counts-as and I can see his perspective.

Anyways though, I think that the success of his list is largely due to his skill rather than the OP-ness of Strikes, an Inq and 2 DKs. Are they good? Yeah. Is that an OP list? Not really.

Surtur wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:One quick clarification before I'm done with this thread-- earlier, I said that Grey Knight Strike Squads were one of the worst Troops units in the game. This is only the case if you intend to use them with transports, which greatly constrain many of their advantages-- on foot, they become much stronger, especially in 10-man squads with Psybolt ammunition.

This is sort of an unusual role in the modern 40k game, so it won't necessarily fit into every army, but the GKSS unit definitely has its strengths and isn't overall as bad as I had earlier claimed.

I don't quite see how. They can just stay in a rhino/chimera until they need to come out. Is it just a matter of points?

That is EXACTLY right, and since GK rhinos are fast, at least thats what Ive been told. This means they can claim objectives if in a pinch but can also use the Rhinos fire ports essentially making it a 2x razorback if it doesnt move.

I started a gunline Krieg army just to pulvarise GK players and from what ive seen it works very very well

iflywhirlybirds wrote:That is EXACTLY right, and since GK rhinos are fast, at least thats what Ive been told. This means they can claim objectives if in a pinch but can also use the Rhinos fire ports essentially making it a 2x razorback if it doesnt move.

You were told wrong, if you mean that GK rhinos have the 'Fast' type. They don't.

One of the problems I have with these discussions is peoples' posting an opinion on a subject, for example the strength of the Grey Knights, without ever having played against them or even apparently peeking inside the codex.

If youre reffering to me Ive done more then peak, Ive ranted and foamed at the mouth of the freakin book since it came out. I know GK rules pretty well but some little things like that just escape me. Personally I feel that GK are over powered, but that might because everyone Ive played against with them is a very good player. I have seen some bad GK players. I really think its pointless to agrue about it cuz its not gonna change anything. My main problem with the GK is their ability to essentially nix the enemies army, the plasma siphon is a perfect example. I played in a "friendly" where my opponent knew hed be fighting we people of fish (tau) so he took it. I cant think of a better screw-you then that. I honestly dont care that its only got a 12 inch range or whatever, that stuff shouldnt exist.

Honestly the more I peek, the more overwhelmed I get. So many options, nearly all of them viable. It makes a Chaos and Tyranid player weep.

iflywhirlybirds wrote:My main problem with the GK is their ability to essentially nix the enemies army, the plasma siphon is a perfect example. I played in a "friendly" where my opponent knew hed be fighting we people of fish (tau) so he took it. I cant think of a better screw-you then that. I honestly dont care that its only got a 12 inch range or whatever, that stuff shouldnt exist.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If your opponent is tailoring his list to fight you, regardless of the codex, than that is going to skew your perceptions. Also, if your opponent is tailoring to your list, you might want to find an opponent that is less of a dick.

iflywhirlybirds wrote:If youre reffering to me Ive done more then peak, Ive ranted and foamed at the mouth of the freakin book since it came out. I know GK rules pretty well but some little things like that just escape me. Personally I feel that GK are over powered, but that might because everyone Ive played against with them is a very good player. I have seen some bad GK players. I really think its pointless to agrue about it cuz its not gonna change anything. My main problem with the GK is their ability to essentially nix the enemies army, the plasma siphon is a perfect example. I played in a "friendly" where my opponent knew hed be fighting we people of fish (tau) so he took it. I cant think of a better screw-you then that. I honestly dont care that its only got a 12 inch range or whatever, that stuff shouldnt exist.

Just out of curiosity, what was his list and what was your list in this game? And did you win?

odorofdeath wrote:Honestly the more I peek, the more overwhelmed I get. So many options, nearly all of them viable. It makes a Chaos and Tyranid player weep.

Are you talking about GK or SW or DE?

Cladmir wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:Honestly the more I peek, the more overwhelmed I get. So many options, nearly all of them viable. It makes a Chaos and Tyranid player weep.

Are you talking about GK or SW or DE?

How did DE get in there?