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Yep, I've been there too.

Also, as I'm on my new pc, I've seen the full glory of my spaceship for the first time, and I must say it looks great

 shrike wrote:
Well Schellan, true to my word, I have infiltrated your base.

Hint: look for the telltale signs!

Now I understand why you are to blame for everything.

Disclaimer: if you're going to click the Quote button on this post, please only quote the section(s) you're replying to, as this is a huge wall of text.

From what I can tell from people's responses there is a bit of confusion over my plans for Tekkit and FtB and my reasons behind it, so I'll try to make them as articulate as I can.

1) First and foremost, numero uno, and can't stress this enough: Unless the player count for the current Tekkit server drops to a constant long term zero (i.e. no-one logs in for over a month), it's not going anywhere at all. You can still play it if you prefer Tekkit, or prefer Equivalent Exchange 2 etc.

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2) My reasoning behind "FtB is better supported than Tekkit". This is a big dump of my opinions, if you're already in favour of FtB, you can probably skip it and go to 3.

The last update to Tekkit (3.1.3) before this "Tekkit Lite" really showed Tekkit's lack of support. The 3.1.3 update effectively broke Tekkit. Their only solution was "restart the world from scratch" and even people who did that still reported serious problems. Even now if you look at their site it says "Latest version 3.1.3 Recommended version 3.1.2".

The developers of Tekkit have very little communication about what's going on (or at least little that I can find - perhaps someone can point me to somewhere where their communication is). "Tekkit Lite" wasn't even on their website for a few days and I only heard about it from odd comments in forums. FtB has a huge amount of public communication from Forums, Twitter, Youtube, Wikis and even Google Docs. They're very active in the community and give regular progress updates and let you know what's happening, often months in advance.

From an admin point of view, Tekkit's server spams the main log file with thousands of lines of debug code *constantly*. While this would be acceptable in a debug or pre-release version of the server (finding the cause of problems etc), for day to day running of the server it's a real pain for searching through. The FtB server handles this much better, by still keeping the debug info logged (for finding the cause of problems), but logs it to a separate file, so that the main log file is not choked up with irrelevant info. Furthermore, it then also "rolls" the debug logs into separate files, so they don't end up huge & monolithic and means older files can be easily cleared out.

Tekkit has far more conflicts between mods and gives me an overall impression of a "held together with string and pritt-stick" system than a well tested mod-pack. FtB is a selection of modpacks where the mod developers have been working together to resolve these conflicts (and still are).

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3) Copying structures across from the Tekkit server to the FtB server.
This is extremely unlikely. Many of the mods have been rewritten from scratch, with new item ids and interactions all over the place. Tekkit has item conflicts all over the place within itself without me introducing those into a FtB world too. Of course, if you had a structure made entirely of only vanilla materials, I might be able to copy it but I would have to double check it for any non-vanilla items at all. That would be extra work and time which only delays releasing a perfectly ready server. You might even find you could build it from scratch faster. Furthermore, I didn't copy any structures from the Vanilla server to Tekkit, as it was a completely new server with a different set up. The FtB server will also be a completely new server with a different set up.

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4) Giving starter packs/items to people moving from Tekkit
Again, this will be a new server with new balancing and set up, so I don't think copying across items or inventories from the Tekkit server is the way to go. Starter chests are also more of a pain than useful. As Shrike has said, "if it's low level, it's easy to get" and if it's higher then you should probably be working up to it rather than just being given it. Also setting up the right amount of starter chests or assigning them to specific players would be more effort and time that would just delay you being able to actually play (again you could probably collect the items faster than I could set up some kind of system).
What I probably will do is have a well established shared resource area with various public machines, power, blast furnaces etc and means of creating the items you need to set off and establish your own places. (Much better than the current spawn on the Tekkit server). Couple this with the Mystcraft dedicated mining age and you really can get started in next to no time at all. If you want the authentic start from scratch, just head off without using the machines and go punch trees.

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5) Your time and effort on the Tekkit server.
I'm well aware some of you have invested large amounts of time and effort into the Tekkit server, and that I have barely touched it myself (for various reasons, time being a major factor, but also ISP issues which I hope to resolve next week). It seems like longer, but the Tekkit server has been going less than three months. I'd like to move to a more sustainable system that (hopefully) doesn't require world resets for minor updates. For the reasons I've listed in point 2, FtB seems to be the way to go. The modding community is going through some large changes at the moment and FtB seems to be the more stable platform (at least until Mojang release their modding API and then who knows what will happen). Furthermore:

Updating Tekkit will also require a world reset, so moving to FtB is an almost equal change.

I'm re-iterating it again, but I won't shut down the Tekkit server as long as people are playing it. However if/when I do, I would release the world for download, so you still get to keep everything you've built.

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6) Your input
I kept the Tekkit server a bit of a surprise, but this time around I'm welcoming your involvement and suggestions for ways to go with the FtB server (we've already been doing this a bit). There are are many things that can be discussed:

Mystcraft Ages - I'm against personal ages, but I'm for shared "themed" ages, so suggestions are welcome, but I'd like to keep the number down. Remember each age is an entire dimension, as limitless as the overworld, so they're not suited to one person's personal project.

GregTech - Seems to be a controversial mod as it makes crafting recipes for things like solar panels and tools more difficult. This means you have to do things like find diamonds and go to the nether for resources before you can craft some IC2 machines and tools. Some may prefer the extra challenge but a great consensus seems to be to turn off the "hard" crafting recipes but leave in the later end-game items that GregTech provides

Thaumcraft - There is no longer any taint, but if someone is using Thaumcraft magic near your place incorrectly, it can lead to Wisps appearing (mobs). This is a lot more manageable than the taint, but I still welcome any opinions on this as it has come up before

Mob Griefing - This type of server ends up with very intricate set ups and it can be very annoying when someone brings a creeper along when they visit. As this is not vanilla, I'm willing to disable mob griefing (creeper craters, endermen stealing blocks) as it mainly leads to frustration rather than a brief penalty on a server of this type. Creepers still hurt, but don't damage blocks. Or is this making the game too easy?

Ideas for those starting again - Some of you consider starting again to be the fun part, some consider it a chore. That's why I feel the shared resource area is the best middle ground, but I welcome any suggestions or complaints

Anything else you feel needs pointing out or brought to my attention (e.g. known bugs or just a personal preference for some config setting etc). Also don't let the vocal minority take away some preference of your own, speak up.

It's impossible to please everyone, but if we can get something that *most* people prefer, rather than just what I prefer, I think it would be better in the long run. That said, if *most* people prefer Tekkit then I could just throw the whole idea out the window

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tl:dr; If you don't want to move away from Tekkit, just keep playing it, but FtB has a lot more fun stuff to play with and I'd like to hear your opinions. You also missed a great joke about chickens.

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Finally, once again, if you're going to click the Quote button on this post, please only quote the section(s) you're replying to, as this is a huge wall of text.

Tekkit has far more conflicts between mods and gives me an overall impression of a "held together with string and pritt-stick" system than a well tested mod-pack.

There's the issue: not enough duct tape.

darkinnit wrote:4) Giving starter packs/items to people moving from Tekkit

I think before you open the server fully public, you should go in and creative in food, machines etc in a neat layout, more like the Dakka server so It's neat

darkinnit wrote:6) Your input

Mystcraft ages - I think Mining, Home (normal world) and E-penis waving world for big builds () would be fine

GregTech - leave the current recipies, as things like macerators are great to speed up start up

Thaumcraft, not sure on this, but If wisps are the only problem then that's not to bad, even more of a reason to have a buffer between each other and not build right nextdoor

MobGriefing - Leave it as is, we are playing Survival, not creative, and interdiction torches are still there if people REALLY need them (i think)

Ideas for starting again - different people may require different needs, shared reasorces would be a good start, but it depends on what the person's thinking of doing, eg. I'm going to recreate my current base in FTB, so something to breath underwater would be alot more useful than reasorces, which since I mainly use marble and don't really do much IC, aren't hard to get.

I think the points you have made are good, and would love an ftb server without creeper explosions( at some point they become more of an annoyance than a threat ). I also think that you should leave the crafting recipes the original way, as 2 diamonds for a macerator???

edit: afaik, interdiction torches do not exist currently

i was fine with the FTB move, WAS.....

the two things i liked about it were
1) i was new to tekkit so it was really a change for the better and i wasnt leaving anything behind.
2) mystcraft, i would have loved to have a private dimension whcih people can visit. and people are always, ALWAYS complaing over my creations. so id love to have a private unlimited space where my macinations can run free like gods!

BUT

1) the more time it takes to get the FTB server up the more work i do on my tekkit. so the more i have to lose. the faster the FTB server the happier ill be
2) no personal dimension. quite possibly the most annoying thing, im gonna go on a little emotional talk, my whole time on tekkit my buildings and projects have been called "fugly", "terrible" and ive been asked to move many-a-time. my dimension could change this, all id like is a dark realm were the sky is red and battle ships loom over the mortals that stand below them, spires taller then the eye can see stretch into the blackfog and inside songs of prayer, both beautiful and horrible bellow from the windows and doors. titans stand guard to the doors of this land and inside, I Lorgar Aurilien, the Urizen, sit in my room, at the highest peak of the highest churchtower, i am the king of this holy and defiled land!

really all i want is a personal land, where the work is unparralled, id have portals to my land littered around the overwold for people to enter and inside, twisted beings (villagers) would lurk. i couldnt ask for anymore.

ah, so the tekkit server will still exist. In that case, I have no qualms

Your points are excellent and well-thought-through- I cannot disagree with any of them. As for point 6);
Mystcraft Ages: A Mining Age is an excellent idea- as I understand them, they can be remade when depleted, and do not blight the overworld's landscape. I also support a world for Mega-Builds, a la Grundz's Imperial Palace and the like.

Gregtech: Leave the end-game items, and go with the simple recipes. Macerators and the like are Modpack staples- to need diamonds for them is not something I can ever support.

Thaumcraft: Wisps are annoying, as far as I remember. I don't know how well this would go down, but maybe Thaumagicians should team up and live near each other?

Mob griefing OFF. I've had a creeper detonate almost all of my machines at once- Not fun. Especially with Mass-Fabs, they're too expensive.

For the shared resource area, I recommend Buildcraft's Duplicators. An Admin-only block that infinitely duplicates things. If you want a hand setting up such an area, I can do most of IC, Buildcraft, and Redpower- especially automation.

If FTB materialises, I'll not go on tekkit- I want other people on a server. Otherwise, I can just play singleplayer.

The Dark Apostle wrote:

2) no personal dimension. quite possibly the most annoying thing, im gonna go on a little emotional talk, my whole time on tekkit my buildings and projects have been called "fugly", "terrible" and ive been asked to move many-a-time.

It's more to do with where you build than what you build, Eg. everybody getting annoyed becuase the titan was straddeling rails and right inbetween two other people, find a place of land in the middle of nowhere...

 FM Ninja 048 wrote:


It's more to do with where you build than what you build, Eg. everybody getting annoyed becuase the titan was straddeling rails and right inbetween two other people, find a place of land in the middle of nowhere...

Yeah, I guess choosing THE MIDDLE OF AN UNOCCUPIED OCEAN was too close to anyone elses land

 Grundz wrote:

 FM Ninja 048 wrote:


It's more to do with where you build than what you build, Eg. everybody getting annoyed becuase the titan was straddeling rails and right inbetween two other people, find a place of land in the middle of nowhere...

Yeah, I guess choosing THE MIDDLE OF AN UNOCCUPIED OCEAN was too close to anyone elses land

Okay, I'm confused now. We don't mean your titan (being the only titan I know of that currently occupies the middle of an ocean), if that's what you mean.

 Grundz wrote:

 FM Ninja 048 wrote:


It's more to do with where you build than what you build, Eg. everybody getting annoyed becuase the titan was straddeling rails and right inbetween two other people, find a place of land in the middle of nowhere...

Yeah, I guess choosing THE MIDDLE OF AN UNOCCUPIED OCEAN was too close to anyone elses land

not your Titan, the titan somebody tried to build here

Edit: On another note, can we rebuild your titan from vanilla in FTB, it'l have working missiles, power so it lights up, working loaders, weapons lockers, micro blocks for more details, a comp-machine spirit etc.

I quite like the idea of the FTB server when it comes out and is the reason I have decided to not go onto the Tekkit server so that I can start at the sametime as everyone else and not feel like im having to play catchup.

Playing on my friends Tekkit server also drives me nuts sometimes with the amount of bugs.

Regarding the GregTech, I find IC items a pain to craft as it is, I would not fancy them being any more!

Be glad the FTB team have disabled the new macerator recipe... I mean, the macerator isn't THAT overpowered

And really, all you need is more steel, so it isn't too bad, especially for what you get... End game IC items just make it worth it.
Well, except for the solar panel... but lava isn't too hard to get...

The technic team now allow you to make your own mod packs, maybe we could make one like FTB, just faster and more accustomed to us. A tailored mod pack if you will.

FTB basically actually does the same, too

 shrike wrote:
ah, so the tekkit server will still exist. In that case, I have no qualms

Same here. I enjoy having a vast resource pool to initiate various anti-Shrike plots.

I'm ok with all of the stuff In Dark's list.



Also, if you find gold early on, but not rubber, it would be best to go straight to working on thermal expansion, it's pulveriser runs on BC energy and it better than the macerator in certain ways (chance to get extra dust of a different ore, copper has a chance of giving you extra gold, iron a chance of ferrous... etc.)


Also, whne the FTB server is up, don't smelt ferrous ore/dust, as ferrous ingots currently have no uses what so ever (it can't even be pulverised back into ferrous dust...)

Ferrous dust can be commbined with other dusts, so it's useful that way.

I think FtB sounds interesting and Im looking forward to it.

Will be nice to check out some different mods such as thaumcraft. I always enjoy a fresh start, gets me back into playing again.

Dark do you think you could maybe host something like temporary DW20 pack server?

i have been running FTb on my somewhat private server for a while now, (specificly the direwolf20 pack) and i have to say its realy nice to play, it seems to run smoother than the last version of tekkit i played and even without gregtech there has been alot more time put into "merging" the mods. also it has been quite easy to manage even without bukkit plugins, but then again i only have 6 or 7 players, but there seems to be alot less exploitables, given there is a sand multiplier and a few bugs with the rolling machine, but i am finding this alot more fun than my old tekkit world (maybe because of more experiance or because of better company) as of today we have a simple biofuel set up made for the spawn communal area thingy, we are all taking it slowly and havnt mystcrafted or gone for end game stuff, i do have to say though, mystcraft kills server performance so should be strongly limited

Well, I know that I will definatey be going down the BC, TE, RC and TC route!

on the FTB server at the moment i have decided that when i go my own way i will be using a combination of red power and factoriasation wherever possible, also with some interplaced computercraft, i decided this to stop me from churning out the same stuff every time, if you have new mods to play with why not

I love computercraft, but I'm no good a lua, lol.

I'd say don't disable the mob damage, it can be annoying but it keeps the game more interesting. It'd be nice if stuff like the clay soldier mod and perhaps the airship type mod could be looked at as well. Doubtful they'd be good enough though I suppose.

As long as you light your place up creepers shouldn't be a problem.

And if your important machines are left outside yeah creepers can get to them, then what the hell are you doing.

Admitedly, griefers with their hands of a portal gun could grief your base fairly easily and say a creeper did it (which it would have, with lots of help from said griefer...)

I'm half and half, I'm ok with it being turned off or turned on.

I would turn block damage from creepers off, except if there is an easy way to craft reinforced stone etc.

I've been looking at the tutorials for FTB etc, and I am thinking that it's going to be quite interesting to use mystcraft. Have one dimension per player IF that player asks. Disable the recipes and spawn the books in the player INV with the appropriate terrain etc.

I'd put eternal storm on....lmao.

FM Ninja 048 wrote:Mystcraft ages - I think Mining, Home (normal world) and E-penis waving world for big builds () would be fine

4oursword wrote:Mystcraft Ages: A Mining Age is an excellent idea- as I understand them, they can be remade when depleted, and do not blight the overworld's landscape. I also support a world for Mega-Builds, a la Grundz's Imperial Palace and the like.

It actually hadn't occurred to me that the mining world could very easily be regenerated, so that's great. Of course it's an entire dimension, so it would be as limitless as the overworld, but the ability to regenerate the world so people don't have to travel so far could be useful. Link books would negate this requirement somewhat.
Seems at least two people support a "showcase" world for mega builds, but do you want to suggest any ideas for it? Void world? Aether/skylands world? Just a big plain sandstone flat world? Or something completely different?

The Dark Apostle wrote:1) the more time it takes to get the FTB server up the more work i do on my tekkit. so the more i have to lose. the faster the FTB server the happier ill be
2) no personal dimension. quite possibly the most annoying thing, im gonna go on a little emotional talk, my whole time on tekkit my buildings and projects have been called "fugly", "terrible" and ive been asked to move many-a-time. my dimension could change this, all id like is a dark realm were the sky is red and battle ships loom over the mortals that stand below them, spires taller then the eye can see stretch into the blackfog and inside songs of prayer, both beautiful and horrible bellow from the windows and doors. titans stand guard to the doors of this land and inside, I Lorgar Aurilien, the Urizen, sit in my room, at the highest peak of the highest churchtower, i am the king of this holy and defiled land!

really all i want is a personal land, where the work is unparralled, id have portals to my land littered around the overwold for people to enter and inside, twisted beings (villagers) would lurk. i couldnt ask for anymore.

1) I can't get the FtB maintainers to release the Ultimate pack any sooner, it'll be ready when it's ready. I have a test Direwolf20 server, but I'm resetting it constantly as I try different things, so you wouldn't get any progress there either.
2) You may find the "fugly" and "terrible" complaints are really small secondary complaints to the primary issue of you building too close to someone. If you move further away from others you will find people have less opinions on what your stuff looks like. The world is almost infinite in size and the further you move from someone, the more space it gives you to expand and make larger creations without offending someone. Similarly the further you move out, the less likely it is for someone to expand up to your place. The problem you may have run into is you may have been used to Single Player or Vanilla Multiplayer, where a couple of hundred blocks is "far enough", but on a modded server like Tekkit or FtB, people can expand their constructions at an extremely fast rate, so you may find that distances of thousands of blocks are more suitable to avoid conflicts. Because the overworld is almost infinite in size I am very reluctant to make "personal ages", because there's plenty of room in the overworld if you actually make the effort to travel. However, I'm open to considering "shared ages" like the themed ages already mentioned, if a lot of people can come to an agreement on a specific type of age that they would share together. However, I would still like to keep the number of ages to a minimum, as each dimension adds more overhead to the server, especially if chunk loaders are in use. If you still want a personal age all to yourself, well, there's always single player...

4oursword wrote:Thaumcraft: Wisps are annoying, as far as I remember. I don't know how well this would go down, but maybe Thaumagicians should team up and live near each other?

I've only learned the basics of Thaumcraft so far, but I'm not sure that would work. Thaumcraft seems to have aura nodes around the world which are depleted or filled with flux as Thaumcraft is used near them, so if everyone all stayed together, I don't know if there'd be less magics to go around in their area (or if it doesn't work like that at all). Also I think the research aspect of Thaumcraft encourages exploring and moving around to find different areas that have stronger aspects in the atmosphere for researching. As some people have said, as long as people actually take advantage of the size of the world and spread out, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

matapata98 wrote:Dark do you think you could maybe host something like temporary DW20 pack server?

I can and already do, but it's not public for the time being. Still struggling with my ISP and hope to have a more decent connection by next Wednesday. In the meantime, I think KillerSkivil was offering his/her server earlier.

FM Ninja 048 wrote:MobGriefing - Leave it as is, we are playing Survival, not creative, and interdiction torches are still there if people REALLY need them (i think)

n0t_u wrote:I'd say don't disable the mob damage, it can be annoying but it keeps the game more interesting. It'd be nice if stuff like the clay soldier mod and perhaps the airship type mod could be looked at as well. Doubtful they'd be good enough though I suppose.

The reason I brought up mob griefing was to encourage this discussion. See, creepers were added to Minecraft when the worst damage they did was blow up a wall or intricately designed arch etc. Even with the new redstone stuff in vanilla, their explosion radius is often not enough to cause that much of a headache for rebuilding. However Buildcraft, Redpower, Railcraft and Thermal Expansion setups can be not only extremely costly to replace, but also horrendously time consuming. To counter the "you should have protected it more" argument, often it is not your fault. I've heard Shrike can get a creeper into any location, without the use of portal guns . The mods themselves add plenty of challenge without needing the additional frustrations of creepers coming along and saying "no, sssssstart over!". I don't think removing mob griefing would remove challenge or make the game "too easy", but I'm open to further discussion of course. Perhaps a vote (if I set up a poll somewhere)?

Additional mods like Clay Soldiers and Airships: I'd like to keep things simple and just use one particular FtB modpack, so we can just tell people "choose this modpack and connect to this server and away you go" and also to avoid any conflicts or bugs from non-standard set ups. I'm aware FtB and Tekkit now allow custom packs, but as far as I'm aware they require the mods be available from their launcher first, before they can be added to a custom pack (but I haven't investigated it that thoroughly).

However, with regard to Clay Soldiers, take a look at the Thaumcraft 3 Golems, not sure how similar they are...

Thaumcraft 3 golems can't attack, unfortunately.
At least, the current ones can't.

And, yes Dark you are correct. Having all the thaumaturgists in the same chunk would drain the magic fast and make MORE wisps, and drain the magic from the chunks surrounding and making wisps appear there too.

It would also make it hard to make/use magic items

Best idea, thaumaturgists need to stay away from each other, base wise, and people should be careful building next to them.


Oh, and there re such things as evil nodes which constantly make wisps or zap you with lightning or generate flux etc...

and, yes. I am a thaumaturgist (in minecraft, not real life )



Also, Dark, it wouldn't be a bad idea to place a mystcraft linking book editor in the community area, so we can make linking books that work in the same dimension tey link to. Also, we need a nexus somewhere, probably in a separate age or the mining world, where books to people's houses and other worlds are for easy access.