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Personal it sounds like just the sort of thing deathwatch would do. Sniper stalker bolt guns then when they get too close charge in and shotgun them in the face. I think this is the tradeoff for not being able to get CC specialists in the veteran squad itself and encourages you to add vanguard or the other bikers for versatility.

Also dat overwatch templates -.-.

I know that this might sound trite but damn did they knock the deathwatch book out of the park ruleswise for me.

I have spent so much time magnetizing, so that I could adopt as the situation changes it kind lost a bit of the soul of the game. However now I can make that guy with twin lightning claws, he is the twin lightning claws guy in the squad, or the heavy thunderhammer guy. Because its not a full 5 man squad its no big deal to make up 4-5 different guys to go in the strike forces depending on who they are bringing that battle. I have not been this excited to make specific characters, give them all names, etc in a long while. Time to bust out all the deathwatch books and get my fluff boner going.

I mean it will be so much fun to have different teams with different roles that kind of play out on the battle field.

Squad Zariel, target their infantry on that objective. Squad Sho'Karr eliminate that armored threat.

Super pumped!! Will have to see how much work it is going to take to get shotgun/Stalker on 5 guys as well as just brainstorm some combos as well as points. Its really tough because I want the OS, however it is hard to passup having all the special rules joined to the squad.

Cephalobeard wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
True but if they do pass it on to the rules team we should see a post clarifying it on the Facebook page pretty quickly.

They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Somewhere in Nottingham, someone just reminded everyone why GW left social media.

 EnTyme wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
True but if they do pass it on to the rules team we should see a post clarifying it on the Facebook page pretty quickly.

They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Somewhere in Nottingham, someone just reminded everyone why GW left social media.

Eh, maybe but the question was phrased politely and posters also expressed gratitude that they were being responded to. It's a small rules issue overall but full clarity benefits all the players in the long run so I think it's a good thing to be able to bring these questions semi-directly to those who write the rules.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
True but if they do pass it on to the rules team we should see a post clarifying it on the Facebook page pretty quickly.

They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Somewhere in Nottingham, someone just reminded everyone why GW left social media.

Eh, maybe but the question was phrased politely and posters also expressed gratitude that they were being responded to. It's a small rules issue overall but full clarity benefits all the players in the long run so I think it's a good thing to be able to bring these questions semi-directly to those who write the rules.

Yeah, I made sure I was overly grateful to them in posting additional replies.

Not sure if this has come up or if anyone cares but I emailed FW asking when we may see a list of IA Space Marine/ Imperial Units that can be take by Deathwatch. Their response was probably pretty much what you'd expect.

Me:
"Hello!

I was wondering when we may see a complete list of all the Space Marine/ Imperial models that can be used by a Deathwatch army. Is there a projected time table?"


Forgeworld:

"Thanks for contacting us. We know that the Forge Studio are working on several faq/errata documents to ease the connection between Citadel and Forge World rules. These can take time to complete as they are a small team with a very busy schedule. Rest assured that the Death Watch will get some love in the future but at the moment we don't know when that will be.

In the meantime we don't see any problem with using any of the units that are allowed for other Space Marine armies with your Death Watch force but we recommend talking this over with your gaming group first."

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

If nothing else, issues such as his may demonstrate to someone somewhere how loose and wooly their rules writing can be, and if it keeps happening maybe the penny will drop.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

I'm more concerned with the Deathwatch leaders being unable to take Stalker pattern Boltguns, seeing as the Relic ammo has a Stalker profile.

They might not be able to take a Storm Shield, but they can take the Dominus Aegis which is a Storm Shield for the whole squad if the model stays still.

I still don't get why they didn't just go Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, then say "swap Bolter for Ranged or Special, swap CCW for Melee, swap either for Storm Shield/other stuff".

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

I'm more concerned with the Deathwatch leaders being unable to take Stalker pattern Boltguns, seeing as the Relic ammo has a Stalker profile.

They might not be able to take a Storm Shield, but they can take the Dominus Aegis which is a Storm Shield for the whole squad if the model stays still.

Not quite, it's a 4++, and isn't very useful for a choppy squad that needs to keep moving.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I still don't get why they didn't just go Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, then say "swap Bolter for Ranged or Special, swap CCW for Melee, swap either for Storm Shield/other stuff".

Because when your methodology for writing rules is "Man, there are so many trees out here I can no longer see the forest!" (ie. "I know what I mean, so they'll know what I mean!") it's how we get mistakes like this.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

He's also not allowed to replace the Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon if he takes Terminator Armor, where as the Librarian is.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

He's also not allowed to replace the Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon if he takes Terminator Armor, where as the Librarian is.

There is no plastic Terminator Captain model with combi weapon afaik.

There is a plastic Terminator Librarian with combi weapon afaik.

... >.<

This 'no model, no rules' thing is getting silly. Sure, I can understand omitting rules if it is impossible to model the option, but there are space marine combi-weapons, they just happen to come in a different kit. A big part of appeal of Space Marines is that you can freely kitbast all the kits.

Mchaagen wrote:

Bikers have the same issue. They don't have space marine bikes in their wargear. Noticed it when their twin-linked boltguns were listed, since that's usually in the space marine bike profile.

I'm curious if this is following a new rules format, or it's just complete lack of consistency.

Obviously they mean for you to mod3el the Space Marine bikers "levitating" on a stem from a flight stand over a biker base, so that it looks like they're riding an invisible bike. If they're not listing the bikes as wargear, you shouldn't have to show the models of them with bikes.

 Crimson wrote:
This 'no model, no rules' thing is getting silly. Sure, I can understand omitting rules if it is impossible to model the option, but there are space marine combi-weapons, they just happen to come in a different kit. A big part of appeal of Space Marines is that you can freely kitbast all the kits.

But...but..xthe hobby isn't kitbashing but buying models!

 Yodhrin wrote:
I still don't get why they didn't just go Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, then say "swap Bolter for Ranged or Special, swap CCW for Melee, swap either for Storm Shield/other stuff".

Because that would give them an additional CC attack as standard which is clearly something they didn't want to do.

 Atia wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

He's also not allowed to replace the Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon if he takes Terminator Armor, where as the Librarian is.

There is no plastic Terminator Captain model with combi weapon afaik.

There is a plastic Terminator Librarian with combi weapon afaik.

... >.<

If we go off what they have a model of and dont have a model of, they do have models of Jump Pack Chaplains, but that is something not allowed in the codex.

 Atia wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

He's also not allowed to replace the Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon if he takes Terminator Armor, where as the Librarian is.

There is no plastic Terminator Captain model with combi weapon afaik.

There is a plastic Terminator Librarian with combi weapon afaik.

... >.<

Terminator Captain

Terminator Librarian

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Atia wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

He's also not allowed to replace the Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon if he takes Terminator Armor, where as the Librarian is.

There is no plastic Terminator Captain model with combi weapon afaik.

There is a plastic Terminator Librarian with combi weapon afaik.

... >.<

Terminator Captain

Terminator Librarian

No no, that is a Cataphractii Captain - you don't have that option either -,-

 Atia wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Atia wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

He's also not allowed to replace the Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon if he takes Terminator Armor, where as the Librarian is.

There is no plastic Terminator Captain model with combi weapon afaik.

There is a plastic Terminator Librarian with combi weapon afaik.

... >.<

Terminator Captain

Terminator Librarian

No no, that is a Cataphractii Captain - you don't have that option either -,-

Its the Terminator Captain as stated in the Angels of Death supplement.

 Crimson wrote:
This 'no model, no rules' thing is getting silly. Sure, I can understand omitting rules if it is impossible to model the option, but there are space marine combi-weapons, they just happen to come in a different kit. A big part of appeal of Space Marines is that you can freely kitbast all the kits.

This is what makes the lack of Apothecary's so odd as the parts in the command squad set are totally compatible with the DW parts.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
This 'no model, no rules' thing is getting silly. Sure, I can understand omitting rules if it is impossible to model the option, but there are space marine combi-weapons, they just happen to come in a different kit. A big part of appeal of Space Marines is that you can freely kitbast all the kits.

This is what makes the lack of Apothecary's so odd as the parts in the command squad set are totally compatible with the DW parts.

The ability to add an apothecary to each veteran squad so the kill teams have FNP would have been absolutely amazing. Well, i guess there's always reason to ally in some blood angels, put jump packs on the sanguinary priests and attach them to the deathwatch teams. Deathwatch gain deepstrike in a black spear detachment so the unit can enter the battlefield deep striking.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I still don't get why they didn't just go Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, then say "swap Bolter for Ranged or Special, swap CCW for Melee, swap either for Storm Shield/other stuff".

Because that would give them an additional CC attack as standard which is clearly something they didn't want to do.

But giving them all multiple two-handed ranged weapons was? Frankly I think it's more likely they just didn't have a clue what they were doing.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Spoiler:

 Atia wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Atia wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

He's also not allowed to replace the Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon if he takes Terminator Armor, where as the Librarian is.

There is no plastic Terminator Captain model with combi weapon afaik.

There is a plastic Terminator Librarian with combi weapon afaik.

... >.<

Terminator Captain

Terminator Librarian

No no, that is a Cataphractii Captain - you don't have that option either -,-

Its the Terminator Captain as stated in the Angels of Death supplement.

Spoiler:

This 128-page softback supplement is designed for any Codex: Space Marines army. Included within:

- a guide to Strike Forces and Chapter organisation, including 4 Army List Entry datasheets and 14 Formations;
- background and organisation on White Scars, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard Chapters, as well as their typical Strike Forces;
- rules for the Terminator Captain, Cataphractii Terminators and Contemptor Dreadnought;
- Warlord Traits, Relics and Tactical Objectives;
- four complete psychic disciplines available to Space Marines Librarians of all Chapters (including Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Deathwatch)

You're going to argue with Atia about this?

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I still don't get why they didn't just go Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, then say "swap Bolter for Ranged or Special, swap CCW for Melee, swap either for Storm Shield/other stuff".

Because that would give them an additional CC attack as standard which is clearly something they didn't want to do.

But giving them all multiple two-handed ranged weapons was? Frankly I think it's more likely they just didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Fortunately the rules no longer care about how many hands guns might require.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
This 'no model, no rules' thing is getting silly. Sure, I can understand omitting rules if it is impossible to model the option, but there are space marine combi-weapons, they just happen to come in a different kit. A big part of appeal of Space Marines is that you can freely kitbast all the kits.

This is what makes the lack of Apothecary's so odd as the parts in the command squad set are totally compatible with the DW parts.

I thought the command squad was still the old style arms-with-hands?

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Spoiler:

 Atia wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Atia wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cephalobeard wrote:
They just posted saying they were passing it on to them, because we kept grilling them.

Good. This is a clear case of not understanding the rules that they've written themselves, so it should be clarified.

Hopefully we can eliminate other idiotic things, like DW leaders in Terminator armour being unable to take Storm Shields because seriously what the feth is up with that?

He's also not allowed to replace the Storm Bolter with a Combi-Weapon if he takes Terminator Armor, where as the Librarian is.

There is no plastic Terminator Captain model with combi weapon afaik.

There is a plastic Terminator Librarian with combi weapon afaik.

... >.<

Terminator Captain

Terminator Librarian

No no, that is a Cataphractii Captain - you don't have that option either -,-

Its the Terminator Captain as stated in the Angels of Death supplement.

Spoiler:

This 128-page softback supplement is designed for any Codex: Space Marines army. Included within:

- a guide to Strike Forces and Chapter organisation, including 4 Army List Entry datasheets and 14 Formations;
- background and organisation on White Scars, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard Chapters, as well as their typical Strike Forces;
- rules for the Terminator Captain, Cataphractii Terminators and Contemptor Dreadnought;
- Warlord Traits, Relics and Tactical Objectives;
- four complete psychic disciplines available to Space Marines Librarians of all Chapters (including Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Deathwatch)

You're going to argue with Atia about this?

I dont think anyone is arguing with her, more pointing out that since what she says is the way of things, that it is no less dumb for GW to do it that way considering everything out there.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
I thought the command squad was still the old style arms-with-hands?

All it needs is a shoulder pad from the upgrade sprue. Actually scratch that, I just checked the sprue and the command squad kit already comes with two DW shoulder pads Any DW specific weapons can use the arms from the veterans kit.

So Atia posted an image that shows the current setup of the Watch Companies. Artemis is the Watch Captain of Watch Company Tertius (3rd Company). My Crimson FISTS are the 3rd Company(decided immediately when I built my Captain back when I first started). My Blood Angels are the 3rd Company(decided when I bought Deathstorm when it came out). My Deathwatch will be the 3rd Company.

Weird little tidbit, I am also the third child in my family. Perhaps the universe is trying to tell me something.

Also, going back to the shotgun and Bolter issue, GW either has to allow it, or they have to say no special weapons on SM Bikes. Also, I really hope they fix it so a Watch Captain can take a Stalker Bolter. That way there is a reason for the Stalker profile of the Banebolts.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:


Also, going back to the shotgun and Bolter issue, GW either has to allow it, or they have to say no special weapons on SM Bikes. Also, I really hope they fix it so a Watch Captain can take a Stalker Bolter. That way there is a reason for the Stalker profile of the Banebolts.

Or they'll just pull a John Madden and make a random ass ruling.