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Shoot, our local gaming club did a 3d style space hulk game ( I think they even took some of it to Games Day in Baltimore not completely sure about it, as I wasn't there.).. it was awesome. not only did it have side doors, walls and sphincter doors, it also had 3 seperate levels to traverse..

and we also had a warning light system, with blaring horns/warning horns that would come on when you had 2 min (lights) and 1 min (horns) left. It was awesome..

I know GW won't go that far, but as for me, Space Hulk and Blood bowl could be the only games GW ever did and I'd be happy..

Kilkrazy wrote:Why not have a game where time pressure is a game mechanism? I always felt it worked well and by making games go quicker you could play the scenario both ways round.

I never played the board game, but used to visit a friend's house as much as possible to play the computer game version. The timer was definitely a plus for the type of game that it was, helping to make the game more claustrophobic.

I also think this would be an excellent opportunity for GW to make something that can also act as advertising for the hobby as a whole, by getting it out into a wider variety of stores. I had thought that this was one of the reasons for making the starter box sets a bit smaller [eg Assault on Black Reach], but I haven't noticed much success with this. Perhaps that has disappointed GW?

Like Alex Kolodotschko said, the timer causes the marines player to make mistakes under pressure. It's an integral part of the game.

It helps compensate for the simple rules and prevents the marines from setting up mathematically precise patterns of fire, which they can do much more easily given unlimited time to consider their options.

It gives the Genestealer player a functional tactical objective in killing the sergeant or captain, and the marines and objective in defending him.

I don't get the idea that it's unfair to inexperienced players. All games are unfair to inexperienced players.

I don't see logically how it can speed a game up to remove the timer and let people take as long as they want.

Finally, we already have 40K and cut-down versions of it. The world does not need another cut-down version of 40K played inside some plastic corridors.

Yes I remember seeing the space hulk thing at GD Baltimore, it was sweet looking. And if I recall correctly it was painted in a redish color.

Here is a timer someone made for Spacehulk.

A nice thing to use if you happen to have a laptop handy. Sadly, it doesn't work for phone aps as it is too big to fit the screen. [edit] It seems the creator took some feedback since I last used it as the screen size is customizable to fit your screen. I assume that means you can download the app to a phone[/edit]

The timer is adjustable by clicking the termies or the little red part of the blip marker. Its nice to see such customization.
The file could definitely be improved by adding the scanner sound from the movie Aliens, as I think the ping is a little annoying. Perhaps even a alien screech at the end to show the times up.

Audio files from the AVP game could easily be used.

But its a sweet app and the person who made it on BoardgameGeek should be given mad props for making it.

Whatever happened to the flash/Java Space Hulk game that someone created about a year ago? If I recall that didn't have a timer and it just doesn't have the same feel.

stonefox wrote:Whatever happened to the flash/Java Space Hulk game that someone created about a year ago? If I recall that didn't have a timer and it just doesn't have the same feel.

Wasn't that based on the second edition anyway?
That game rocked hard balls, some mission just let me bite the same hard ones because I couldn't finish them.
Especially a mission with a round limit was intense, really transported the desperate fall back feel.

Greets
Schepp himself

I own several copies of both editions of this game, so much fun.

Without the timer, it made things relatively one sided. The guys with the guns won. It builds suspense and forces you to stay on your toes. With the second edition things were better balanced, not as much of an issue, but it sapped alot of variety and replay value from the game.

Hellfury wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:If Space Hulk moves more toward standard 40k resolution mechanics, I think that would go a long ways toward speeding play.

Could you eloborate?

I ask because spacehulk is already a pretty quick game. I find it difficult to beleive that it could get any faster to resolve.

As for the timers... Meh. If you like to use em, if not then don't. Its nice to have the option for people who do enjoy such tension.

By "standard 40k resolution mechanics", I mean that shooting, HtH, etc. would follow 5th Edition rules.

Basically, each Marine would be an Independent Character, but he would be standard BS4, shooting on a 3+, with a standard Sv2+/5++ save, move 6", etc. His Flamer would be a standard S4 AP5 Template weapon. And so on.

That way, existing 40k players wouldn't have to switch back and forth between rulesets, but just play as normal, but with minor modifications (e.g. Marines being ICs rather than a squad).

Action points are *much* better suited for Space Hulk.

BrookM wrote:Action points are *much* better suited for Space Hulk.

Agreed. At this level, the 40K simplifications are a bit too simple.

BrookM wrote:Action points are *much* better suited for Space Hulk.

I could not agree more. Space hulk is its own game, not a knock of of an edition of 40K. The action point mechanic is inherent to the game. Without it, you may as well be playing 40K in space corridors. You can do that anyways using 40K rules without having to muck up a perfectly good system.

If new players cant wrap their tiny brains around the extremely simple action point concept and be able to switch easily between games, then I am afraid they are better off playing checkers.

Or maybe this might be more their speed...

Wait, how can you get to "end" if there's no box around it I can jump to?

stonefox wrote:Whatever happened to the flash/Java Space Hulk game that someone created about a year ago? If I recall that didn't have a timer and it just doesn't have the same feel.

Thats the spacehulk game made by Teardown. I was playing it last night (there are places on the net still where you can find it) and I didn't notice any missions that were timed. But then again, I only got two missions into a campaign so there may be timed missions in there (Before you start a game, there is a part on the bottom of the mission briefing that tells you wehter it is timed or not.)

I agree though, without the timer I win the games very easily. Just find a good position, overwatch the hell out of crap, and hope you dont jam while completing the objective.

Faaaaaaar too easy to beat without a timer.

Hellfury wrote:Here is a timer someone made for Spacehulk.

A nice thing to use if you happen to have a laptop handy. Sadly, it doesn't work for phone aps as it is too big to fit the screen. [edit] It seems the creator took some feedback since I last used it as the screen size is customizable to fit your screen. I assume that means you can download the app to a phone[/edit]

The timer is adjustable by clicking the termies or the little red part of the blip marker. Its nice to see such customization.
The file could definitely be improved by adding the scanner sound from the movie Aliens, as I think the ping is a little annoying. Perhaps even a alien screech at the end to show the times up.

Audio files from the AVP game could easily be used.

But its a sweet app and the person who made it on BoardgameGeek should be given mad props for making it.

I like it..

space hulk with a timer is like bloodbowl without a timer.. you just too much time to make tactical decisions that you would otherwise overlook 'under the gun' of a timer..

if you play those games without a timer, it's about like riding a bike with training wheels.. It's just not right.

Hellfury wrote:

stonefox wrote:Whatever happened to the flash/Java Space Hulk game that someone created about a year ago? If I recall that didn't have a timer and it just doesn't have the same feel.

Thats the spacehulk game made by Teardown. I was playing it last night (there are places on the net still where you can find it) and I didn't notice any missions that were timed. But then again, I only got two missions into a campaign so there may be timed missions in there (Before you start a game, there is a part on the bottom of the mission briefing that tells you wehter it is timed or not.)

I agree though, without the timer I win the games very easily. Just find a good position, overwatch the hell out of crap, and hope you dont jam while completing the objective.

Faaaaaaar too easy to beat without a timer.

Yeah. I think that because of that, I managed to beat the game with 3 guys having powerswords and the sgt. guy having lightning claws or whatever it was. Also you haven't told me how I'm supposed to win that two-box game. It's p confusing.

space hulk with a timer is like bloodbowl without a timer.. you just too much time to make tactical decisions that you would otherwise overlook 'under the gun' of a timer..

if you play those games without a timer, it's about like riding a bike with training wheels.. It's just not right.

One of these days, we should play JTS' version of 40k where you take a shot after a squad dies. I'm sure you'll beat me quite easily but adding external variables that affect tactical decisions is always fun.

stonefox wrote:
One of these days, we should play JTS' version of 40k where you take a shot after a squad dies. I'm sure you'll beat me quite easily but adding external variables that affect tactical decisions is always fun.

Nope, I'm sure you'd win.. Or maybe I would win. I don't drink so how would we do that? llllll

It might do people's brains some good to learn another set of rules on top of 40K.

Who thinks when Talisman was republished they should have changed the game to fit the WHFB rules?

Haha... Talisman with WHFB rules would have been silly.
Space Hulk has its own rules, leave it be. I do however believe GW should put out rule for squad level 40k games separate of Space Hulk. Killteam and patrol games were fun and would lend themselves to some cross over rules with space hulk, much like how the did the Space Hulk Killteam missions as well as the higher level of detail some players would like.

There is always =I=munda floating around. I am told that is a good time.

I hope the don't use Fifth Edition rules and use more like First Edition SH, where it's fewer dice to roll.

SH: Roll to hit, remove model

40k: Roll to hit, roll wounds, roll save (if appropriate), remove model

Not that 40k is overly complex, but I like the SH/LotR 'roll one die and remove a model' simplicity for a board game.

If GW is re-releasing SH as a gateway to 40k, I'd think that they'd want to take advantage of 5th edition, perhaps as "advanced SH"?

Kilkrazy wrote:It might do people's brains some good to learn another set of rules on top of 40K.

Who thinks when Talisman was republished they should have changed the game to fit the WHFB rules?

Anything would have been better than the current ruleset. Basically it goes like this:
1) Roll the dice
2) Move one direction or the other
3) Rinse, repeat

Most decisions in the game come down to this do I take the "Horrible Death" or the "Bag of Gold"..... hmmm what to do, what to do?

BTW, I've got a version of talisman-lite I'm thinking about publishing. Basically it's a D6. Both players roll the dice, the person who says "Chaos Warrior" wins. Unfortunately I think I'm going to have add some additional components to prevent people from stealing my idea, and playing for free.....

40K is a vast universe of fluff and rules that can be hugely daunting for many.
My thinking is that the game will have no relation to 40K bar the models and fluff.
At least this is my hope anyway.

For me the beauty of Space Hulk is this:
Simplicity.
It is possible to learn it in a few minutes and it plays as a stand alone game.
There is very little paraphenalia and it can be played on a kitchen or coffee table.
I could play this with any of my friends family or girlfriend and tell them that it is a board game,
and they would be happy enough to play it.
Some of these people might like it and play again, others might see the carnifex sitting on my shelf
looking all lonely and ask can we use him next game. I will answer, 'Not really, but if you have an hour
or two to spare I will teach you how to play 40K '
Simple really!

Whether we decide to take matters into our own hands, paint the models, invent rules/scenarios, introduce
Tyranids, Imperial guard or other aliens or create vast 3D boards will (more than likely) be up to us.
If this was going to be anything like as big as LOTR we would have heard a lot more by now!


My point is that I don't think we should expect huge things from GW on this one.
All we can hope for is a nice tidy little package.

Alex Kolodotschko wrote:If this was going to be anything like as big as LOTR we would have heard a lot more by now

I think that's a flawed assumption, because GW isn't very open about any future releases outside of the one in the immediate horizon. I mean, the IG book will presumably be a major release, but we still know nothing about its actual contents, and had it not been for the open day, we would not even have a single picture of the models released with it.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If GW is re-releasing SH as a gateway to 40k, I'd think that they'd want to take advantage of 5th edition, perhaps as "advanced SH"?

I don't think they mean for it to be a gateful to 40k, outside of the fluff connection. All the things that made SH cool and fast-paced don't translate to 40k. Measuring for movement and ranges. More dice rolls. Loss of action points. Facing. I mean, they can make it a gateway to 40k, but I think it loses a lot if they do.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If GW is re-releasing SH as a gateway to 40k, I'd think that they'd want to take advantage of 5th edition, perhaps as "advanced SH"?

That's assuming they are releasing it as a gateway game.

I don't think they need a gateway game, they have AoBR which has been very successful and they suck in loads of new recruits by word of mouth, family contacts and through the stores.

True, Space Hulk gives something of the 40K fluff.

A proper, standalone Space Hulk boxed game is something they could sell tons of. Look how fast Talisman sold out when they rereleased it.

Space Hulk sales don't have to cannibalise regular 40K sales. GW can sell a ton of Space Hulk boxes and still sell proper 40K rules supplements like Cities of Death and so on, including a 40K in 40 and Killteam book. And they would sell tons of those kind of rules supplements as well. Look at Apocalypse.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:If Space Hulk moves more toward standard 40k resolution mechanics, I think that would go a long ways toward speeding play.

Could you eloborate?

I ask because spacehulk is already a pretty quick game. I find it difficult to beleive that it could get any faster to resolve.

As for the timers... Meh. If you like to use em, if not then don't. Its nice to have the option for people who do enjoy such tension.

By "standard 40k resolution mechanics", I mean that shooting, HtH, etc. would follow 5th Edition rules.

Basically, each Marine would be an Independent Character, but he would be standard BS4, shooting on a 3+, with a standard Sv2+/5++ save, move 6", etc. His Flamer would be a standard S4 AP5 Template weapon. And so on.

That way, existing 40k players wouldn't have to switch back and forth between rulesets, but just play as normal, but with minor modifications (e.g. Marines being ICs rather than a squad).

And thus, you've recreated 40k, not Space Hulk. Should Talisman be played with WHFB rules to work out any fights? Or why bother with Warmaster. Wouldn't it be simpler to just use the WHFB rules as well? Or maybe play Epic with 40k rules? There's a reason for different rules mechanics...

Space Hulk is not 40k, as others have mentioned already. The GWOZ "Kill Team as Space Hulk" rules are nice for what they are, but they are not Space Hulk.

And now that I'm caught up with the thread, I see that others have made the same point already...

Vale,

JohnS

I think the weak point of your argument is that Games Workshop is a completely rational entity who's as hardcore about the hobby and its history as us gamers. Personally, I rather believe they'll be going for the cheap sales tactics and promoting their main product line with this release, if it even exists.