Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Norade, if you'd actually bothered to read the entire thread, you'd realise I'd already addressed most of the issues for which you are 'eager for an answer'.

I'll address the remaining ones now.

Please name the source for these 'hundreds of city worlds' with hundreds of thousands of billions of citizens. Because that's what you just said. Hundreds of thousands of billions. I could maybe swing with coruscant on that scale, but no other planet, and I'm familiar with pretty much the entire star wars universe. And are yous aying all these planets are human populations? Remember, it's the xenophobic Empire we're addressing here, not every species in Star Wars.

Yes, they would have the capability to make more Iron Men, as if they had them, they would come from an STC system.

Wayland may well have existed, but it was not operational for general military purposes, and it's existence was only known to a few. As I said earlier, 'Use what the Empire has in the established period, in mass production and circulation, not one off super weapons, or research projects.'

You seem to have a lack of knowledge about the tank warfare on the German front. The Germans initially invaded Russia with inferior tanks. They still had Panzer II's in service at that time. Again, I would recommend leaving the WWII analogies at home here, unless you are sure of the analogy you are making.

All the munitions and the rest of it, I gave to the Empire already a few pages back. Please read the whole thread before entering a debate, as you may end up retreading already covered ground.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Still counting out the Mandalorians. This is a mistake.

mandalorians are the only guys who stand a chance against the 40k universe.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Still counting out the Mandalorians. This is a mistake.

mandalorians are the only guys who stand a chance against the 40k universe.

True, they are the only ones (jedi excluded) who can be counted on when things get down and dirty.

@Norade: Primarchs are VERY tough, as in, the they-have-walked-out-of-the-things-you-have mentioned tough. You fail to properly adress the threat of Space Marines. You can't say WE-BEAT-THEM-IN-SPACE. Becuase the Marinz are famous for daring-do attacks against infinity-to-one odds. They would luanch thier drop-pods and stuff into the Enemy ship. If they made it (which you can't deny SOME won't) then they would excel in those close quarters. There is plenty of fluff where marines have luanched thier pods straight into command brigdes, killing the serpent by cutting of the head.

Here is the answer to the death star problems. Deep strike terminators in there and watch the slaughter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:You guys are forgetting the true power of the Star Wars universe.



The Mandalorians.


That is all.

They got their arses handed to them by the Jedi, remember?

The only good Mandalorians were Jango Fett, who actually got gak done, and Canderous Ordo, who looks like Sly Marbo.

I am so sigging that last part

Frazzled wrote:40K Imperium has nothing comparable to a death star. Sorry.

What about Abadons planet destroyer ship?

This is so thick with nerdery it has it's own whirlpools of circular arguments and recurring statements.

Please name the source for these 'hundreds of city worlds' with hundreds of thousands of billions of citizens. Because that's what you just said. Hundreds of thousands of billions. I could maybe swing with coruscant on that scale, but no other planet, and I'm familiar with pretty much the entire star wars universe. And are yous aying all these planets are human populations? Remember, it's the xenophobic Empire we're addressing here, not every species in Star Wars.

Grizzmalt, Wukkar, Metellos, Alsakan, Denon, Humbarine (rebuilt), Teta, & of Coruscant to name a few, how many can you name for the IoM? I have just as much right to claim yours don't exist if you can't name them as you do for me so please, bring your proof. As for the GE not using aliens, what we see are primarily humans and some certainly do hate most alienas, but they are still used as slaves. Also not that Human's are by far the most populous species in the GE.

Yes, they would have the capability to make more Iron Men, as if they had them, they would come from an STC system.

How many can they make in a year? What are their capabilities?

Wayland may well have existed, but it was not operational for general military purposes, and it's existence was only known to a few. As I said earlier, 'Use what the Empire has in the established period, in mass production and circulation, not one off super weapons, or research projects.'

Why should they not use everything in a total war footing? That's like saying Russia can't use nukes in a hypothetical Russia vs. China battle because they didn't use them before that.

You seem to have a lack of knowledge about the tank warfare on the German front. The Germans initially invaded Russia with inferior tanks. They still had Panzer II's in service at that time. Again, I would recommend leaving the WWII analogies at home here, unless you are sure of the analogy you are making.

While they did use inferior tanks in Russia, the Tigers and Panthers had very impresses kills and that brought up the overall kills-to-losses on the front. As well even the Panzer II's were better commanded, more experienced, and better coordinated in battle compared to the Russian;s giving many advantages.

All the munitions and the rest of it, I gave to the Empire already a few pages back. Please read the whole thread before entering a debate, as you may end up retreading already covered ground.

As for covered ground, I really don't care, the people may have lacked the knowledge I have. As for your statements about the rest, then you've already conceded that the GE will win a decisive victory and I have no further need to continue. Unless you have something to add?

Primarchs are VERY tough, as in, the they-have-walked-out-of-the-things-you-have mentioned tough. You fail to properly adress the threat of Space Marines. You can't say WE-BEAT-THEM-IN-SPACE. Becuase the Marinz are famous for daring-do attacks against infinity-to-one odds. They would luanch thier drop-pods and stuff into the Enemy ship. If they made it (which you can't deny SOME won't) then they would excel in those close quarters. There is plenty of fluff where marines have luanched thier pods straight into command brigdes, killing the serpent by cutting of the head.

So the Primarch survives floating in space and gets strafed by a fighter in the mop up or left to die. How was he effective again?

Their pods pass through particle shields and are immune to point defense fire? I call BS on that, given a fighter screen, shields being up around the bridge, and point defense they never make it. They're still dead in space.

Mandalorians are the only guys who stand a chance against the 40k universe.

The Mandalorian's are mostly dead by the start of the fourth movie.

Here is the answer to the death star problems. Deep strike terminators in there and watch the slaughter.

Prove that they can DS through the shields, heavy ECM, and the thicker than their used to hull into a ship they don't have a clue of the layout. The burden of proof is on you that they can get in range, penetrate the defenses, no appear somewhere they can survive not knowing the layout.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

What about Abadons planet destroyer ship?

Is he part of the IoM?

Railguns wrote:This is so thick with nerdery it has it's own whirlpools of circular arguments and recurring statements.

Yes a little light jokism from movies vs. codex art turns into nerdrage arguments set to stun. I just keep getting marvelled at all the SW(facts). To an OSWF (original Star Wars fan) who remembers seeing the curtains pulled back on the stage and the big first explosion, all these SW facts are hokey. If it didnm't come from a movie with Han Solo in it, its not Star Wars baby. On the positive its much calmer than your average YMTC discussion.

In the Force Unleashed one apprentice Dark Jedi reaches out from the surface of a planet and drags a star destroyer into the planet. Couldn't Yoda just sit on Dagobah and make IG navy ships collide with each other?

I think you underestimate the capabilities of IoM ships in comparison to Empire ships.

Once again, the heavier lance weapons can level mountains. What's the best thing turbolasers can do? Blow up astroids, I know, but then you have to try and figure out how big they are.

For another example, a continent is leveled and planet sterilized for generations (as a side effect) by a couple of barrages from three battleships.

That seems exceed what Base Delta Zero entails.

And then there is, once again, the huge gulf in range.

Norade wrote:

The Mandalorian's are mostly dead by the start of the fourth movie.

Not so. they are mostly bounty hunters or clone troopers though.

I vote the newly-created Mandalorkians will win this one.

Seriously, that'd be even cooler than Jedi Marines or the Star of Terror.

Don't bring Star Trek into it!

They'll be too much Nerd for the servers to handle!

Orkeosaurus wrote:Don't bring Star Trek into it!

They'll be too much Nerd for the servers to handle!

Nerdserver overload..... system crashing....

I think you underestimate the capabilities of IoM ships in comparison to Empire ships.

Once again, the heavier lance weapons can level mountains. What's the best thing turbolasers can do? Blow up astroids, I know, but then you have to try and figure out how big they are.

We no longer need those calculations straight from the Revenge of the Sith Incredible cross sections we know that the Acclamator-troop transport, not a fully capable warship, has a peak reactor out put of 2 × 10^23 Watts if we drop that down by two orders of magnitude for a shot from it's main guns that is able to put out 1E6-1E7 megatons of energy per shot from her heaviest weapons. If that was from an asteroid the effects woulkd be as follows

'Both land and ocean impacts produce enough atmospheric dust to affect global climate, freezing crops. Impact ejecta are globally distributed, causing widespread fires. Land impact destroys a large nation (Mexico, India).' Source: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Planet-Killers.html

The ISD would likely have 2 orders of magnitude more fire power than that falling in the 1E8-1E9 range that produces this effect.

'Probable mass extinction event. Global climate changes last for weeks or months. Direct destruction occurs on continental scale (Australia, United States). Massive global firestorms. The K-T extinction event 65 million years ago fell into the upper end of this category.' Source: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Planet-Killers.html

To give an asteroid example an ISD could, at minimum, vaporize a 20km asteroid with her heavy guns as this would only require 3.070E7 megatons of energy and is easily within their far lower limits.

For another example, a continent is leveled and planet sterilized for generations (as a side effect) by a couple of barrages from three battleships.

That seems exceed what Base Delta Zero entails.

A BDZ is designed to make a world so unlivable that it is more expensive to terraform than to colonize a new planet. The surface is made molten and everything, even that which hides underground in bunkers is killed.

Source: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/BaseDeltaZero.html

And then there is, once again, the huge gulf in range.

Yes, the IoM is at a range disadvantage when the Star Wars ECM comes into play.

Norade wrote:Yes, it is true that the full force of the warp could cause much harm to the Star Wars universe, the IoM has shown that it can be held back. With far less natural psykers Chaos would have less of a foothold to start with and with the rate of technological advance in the GE Gellar fields may not be too hard for them to develop and improve upon. Though that is pure speculation.

the Tyranids would be nasty, but the GE has shown they will use BDZ attacks on lost worlds and the Nids in space are something of a joke attacking with melee and very short range weapons. They would have a very hard time gaining a foothold and not being able to claim biomass would end them shortly.

Ork are much the same, spores don't stick to shields and a BDZ attack will kill spores quickly. The GE may even be able to build bio weapons to kill orks and their spores as they certainly do have a wide range and a good record with such things.

Yes but in theory couldnt the force be the warp but with a different name? In the story of starwars large number of people,including various jedi, rulers, soldiers and the like, have been corrupted by the dark side of the force. The dark side is basically the warp but the jedi think they livein a goody fruity wonderful world and think there is a light side to it while as a matter of fact the warp is already taking root in there hearts. The jedi are already psykers but,again,with different names.

Norade wrote:We no longer need those calculations straight from the Revenge of the Sith Incredible cross sections we know that the Acclamator-troop transport, not a fully capable warship, has a peak reactor out put of 2 × 10^23 Watts if we drop that down by two orders of magnitude for a shot from it's main guns that is able to put out 1E6-1E7 megatons of energy per shot from her heaviest weapons. If that was from an asteroid the effects woulkd be as follows

'Both land and ocean impacts produce enough atmospheric dust to affect global climate, freezing crops. Impact ejecta are globally distributed, causing widespread fires. Land impact destroys a large nation (Mexico, India).' Source: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Planet-Killers.html

The ISD would likely have 2 orders of magnitude more fire power than that falling in the 1E8-1E9 range that produces this effect.

'Probable mass extinction event. Global climate changes last for weeks or months. Direct destruction occurs on continental scale (Australia, United States). Massive global firestorms. The K-T extinction event 65 million years ago fell into the upper end of this category.' Source: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Planet-Killers.html

To give an asteroid example an ISD could, at minimum, vaporize a 20km asteroid with her heavy guns as this would only require 3.070E7 megatons of energy and is easily within their far lower limits.

Except that's not consistent with what's displayed. Ever.

Do you have one example of an Imperial Star Destroyer blowing up a continent with one shot from its turbolaser?

I have a counter example, from the novelization of The Revenge of the Sith:

RotS wrote:From the inside, it's different. The gnats are drive-glows of starfighters. The shining hairlines are light-scatter from turbolaser bolts powerful enough to vaporize a small town. The planetoids are capital ships.

Thus, the most powerful lasers being fired can vaporize a small town. That's impressive, but nowhere near destroying countries.

A BDZ is designed to make a world so unlivable that it is more expensive to terraform than to colonize a new planet. The surface is made molten and everything, even that which hides underground in bunkers is killed.

Your own link seems to disagree with you.

Link wrote:Base Delta Zero is the Imperial codename for what is often referred to as "burning off" a world. As described in the Imperial Sourcebook, "it is the systematic complete destruction of all 'assets' of production, including factories, arable land, mines, fisheries, and all sentient beings and droids." This operation has been referred to as reducing "a civilized world to slag"1, reducing "a planet's surface to smoking debris in a matter of hours"2, and "the Imperial code order to destroy all population centres and resources, including industry, natural resources and cities."3 The timeframe is known to be less than a day, although it is not known how much less.

Three different descriptions, and the more specific they get the less total they appear to be.

Even going by the first one, you don't know if "reduced to slag" refers to the planet's crust or the civilization on top of it.

Link wrote:Dankayo: in Scavenger Hunt, three star destroyers attacked Dankayo and reduced the Rebel base to slag. They blasted the atmosphere off the planet and atomized its topsoil8, pounding the planet with such violence that only a "deep planet shelter" could provide protection.9. The surface of the planet was left in an evenly cratered state, which indicates the blanket use of indiscriminate high-yield ground-burst explosions.

A deep bunker prevents their destruction.

In contrast, the Imperium was firing at necron tombs buried miles below the surface. Sterilizing the world wasn't even their goal, they were obliterating a continent.

Yes, the IoM is at a range disadvantage when the Star Wars ECM comes into play.

I wish I know what that meant.

deadratman wrote:

Norade wrote:Yes, it is true that the full force of the warp could cause much harm to the Star Wars universe, the IoM has shown that it can be held back. With far less natural psykers Chaos would have less of a foothold to start with and with the rate of technological advance in the GE Gellar fields may not be too hard for them to develop and improve upon. Though that is pure speculation.

the Tyranids would be nasty, but the GE has shown they will use BDZ attacks on lost worlds and the Nids in space are something of a joke attacking with melee and very short range weapons. They would have a very hard time gaining a foothold and not being able to claim biomass would end them shortly.

Ork are much the same, spores don't stick to shields and a BDZ attack will kill spores quickly. The GE may even be able to build bio weapons to kill orks and their spores as they certainly do have a wide range and a good record with such things.

Yes but in theory couldnt the force be the warp but with a different name? In the story of starwars large number of people,including various jedi, rulers, soldiers and the like, have been corrupted by the dark side of the force. The dark side is basically the warp but the jedi think they livein a goody fruity wonderful world and think there is a light side to it while as a matter of fact the warp is already taking root in there hearts. The jedi are already psykers but,again,with different names.

Maybe the Warp in the Star Wars galaxy is less chaotic than ours. After all, the Warp would be a nice place if people were nice. bu they're not. So it isn't.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Norade wrote:We no longer need those calculations straight from the Revenge of the Sith Incredible cross sections we know that the Acclamator-troop transport, not a fully capable warship, has a peak reactor out put of 2 × 10^23 Watts if we drop that down by two orders of magnitude for a shot from it's main guns that is able to put out 1E6-1E7 megatons of energy per shot from her heaviest weapons. If that was from an asteroid the effects woulkd be as follows

'Both land and ocean impacts produce enough atmospheric dust to affect global climate, freezing crops. Impact ejecta are globally distributed, causing widespread fires. Land impact destroys a large nation (Mexico, India).' Source: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Planet-Killers.html

The ISD would likely have 2 orders of magnitude more fire power than that falling in the 1E8-1E9 range that produces this effect.

'Probable mass extinction event. Global climate changes last for weeks or months. Direct destruction occurs on continental scale (Australia, United States). Massive global firestorms. The K-T extinction event 65 million years ago fell into the upper end of this category.' Source: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Planet-Killers.html

To give an asteroid example an ISD could, at minimum, vaporize a 20km asteroid with her heavy guns as this would only require 3.070E7 megatons of energy and is easily within their far lower limits.

Except that's not consistent with what's displayed. Ever.

Do you have one example of an Imperial Star Destroyer blowing up a continent with one shot from its turbolaser?


I have a counter example, from the novelization of The Revenge of the Sith:

RotS wrote:From the inside, it's different. The gnats are drive-glows of starfighters. The shining hairlines are light-scatter from turbolaser bolts powerful enough to vaporize a small town. The planetoids are capital ships.

Thus, the most powerful lasers being fired can vaporize a small town. That's impressive, but nowhere near destroying countries.

Yes but everywhere the same things hae different names. For example in the 40k universe humans are called humans by humanity. But to the tau they are refered to Gues'va IIRC. So if human physkers were scattered through the warp to a distant galaxy far far away and the population grew with no prior knowledge of the warp and grew to start to learn about it they could call it the force. And the pyskers could establish an order and called them selves the "Jedi".

deadratman wrote:Yes but everywhere the same things hae different names. For example in the 40k universe humans are called humans by humanity. But to the tau they are refered to Gues'va IIRC. So if human physkers were scattered through the warp to a distant galaxy far far away and the population grew with no prior knowledge of the warp and grew to start to learn about it they could call it the force. And the pyskers could establish an order and called them selves the "Jedi".

However the force is clearly not the warp, we never hear of force mishaps or the like nor do we see any signs of corruption besides what Palpatine did to himself. As well they seem to have different abilities and no dirrect non-speculative link between the two has ever been formed.

What about anikan skywalker,clone troopers into storm troopers. All corrupted by the dark side.

Norade wrote:They have been shown to blow away asteroids with shots from guns so small they can not be seen on screen in The Empire Strikes Back. As well the way cannon works is that if it is not disputed in the movies it stands, so these numbers are perfectly accurate as far as all involved and in charge are concerned, I suggest you familiarize your self the Star Wars Cannon policy.

As for your event the burden of proof is on you to show that those are the ships heavier guns firing at full power. Seeing as you can provide no such proof you must concede.

How about no?

For one thing, you just have out the ships' power output, which means you still have to prove the ships weaponry can match it. Prove that the weapons impart that much force on their target.

For another, the novelizations of the movies are as valid as the movies themselves, so I have no idea where this "canon" thing is coming from.

I see you have picked the weakest examples ignoring the part about vaporizing seas to kill all edible fish, a feat requiring 1E27 Joules of energy to accomplish. I suggest you cease in being dishonest and start to debate properly before everybody starts to see that you are a mewling hypocrite.

Oh dear lord, so this is the NERDRAGE everyone talks about.

Seriously, chill the feth out.

In response to the 1E27 Joules, that's just the requirements for boiling (all of) the ocean. Which assumes that "fisheries" implies the whole ocean, for some reason.

Also, how much time is required to boil all that water (tip: "less than a day" does not mean two hours)? And how many ships are required to do so?

Are you honestly trying to tell me that you do not know what an Electronic Counter Measure, AKA Jamming, chaff, passive and active sensor are? Remind me how you're qualified for this debate again when you fail to put in a small amount of research to learn a term and have to pout at your own lack of knowledge?

Seriously quit being such a douche.

Anyways, they have cloaking; that might do a lot, it might do a little. Unless you have some inside tip as to how the Imperium's sensors would interact with cloaking technology from another universe.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Norade wrote:They have been shown to blow away asteroids with shots from guns so small they can not be seen on screen in The Empire Strikes Back. As well the way cannon works is that if it is not disputed in the movies it stands, so these numbers are perfectly accurate as far as all involved and in charge are concerned, I suggest you familiarize your self the Star Wars Cannon policy.

As for your event the burden of proof is on you to show that those are the ships heavier guns firing at full power. Seeing as you can provide no such proof you must concede.

How about no?

For one thing, you just have out the ships' power output, which means you still have to prove the ships weaponry can match it. Prove that the weapons impart that much force on their target.

For another, the novelizations of the movies are as valid as the movies themselves, so I have no idea where this "canon" thing is coming from.

Cannon is concerning the evidence that can be used for a side and it has been decided that the order of priority goes as follows Movies > Books > Gameplay. If something in a book is not directly contradicted in a movie it stands as being true. As for me proving that Star Wars vessels are capable to producing massive firepower BDZ attacks, asteroid destruction (by their lightest guns), combined with figures for reactor output, which could be directed from either guns or through the main drives to great effect, is proof of their firepower. Now why don't you go do some math for the IoM instead of mounting baseless attacks on my supported position with your ignorance.

I see you have picked the weakest examples ignoring the part about vaporizing seas to kill all edible fish, a feat requiring 1E27 Joules of energy to accomplish. I suggest you cease in being dishonest and start to debate properly before everybody starts to see that you are a mewling hypocrite.

Oh dear lord, so this is the NERDRAGE everyone talks about.

Seriously, chill the feth out.

Seriously thicken your skin, and learn to do some research of your own.

In response to the 1E27 Joules, that's just the requirements for boiling (all of) the ocean. Which assumes that "fisheries" implies the whole ocean, for some reason.

Also, how much time is required to boil all that water (tip: "less than a day" does not mean two hours)? And how many ships are required to do so?

Did you miss the part that states that edible fish can be found 100m down in water and could be found as deep as 1000m down? Also 1000m =/= an entire ocean. You also ignore the fact that the atmosphere was blasted away, not burned away by a virus bomb but expelled away by explosive force. Your cherry picking of examples is growing tiresome

You also fail to mention Caamas in your example so let me post that:

'records are sketchy about this operation, but it has been established that it was performed shortly after the Clone Wars by forces loyal to Emperor Palpatine. There were no living witnesses to the attack, which means that there were no survivors anywhere on the entire planet (not even animals, plants, or people in buried shelters, according to the official records). This meant that the only surviving Caamasi were those who had been off-world during the attack. It is also known that the attack took less than a day, although we don't know how much less, and the size and composition of the attacking force is still unknown. Moreover, we also learned that the environmental devastation was so great that even after 40 years, it would have actually been easier to terraform a barren planet to Caamas's original specifications than it would have been to restore Caamas itself! This suggests that Caamas was massively irradiated, or that so much of its surface material was blasted up into the upper atmosphere that it rendered normal terraforming operations impractical. It was effectively destroyed as a habitable world, although not as literally or permanently as Alderaan.'

Are you honestly trying to tell me that you do not know what an Electronic Counter Measure, AKA Jamming, chaff, passive and active sensor are? Remind me how you're qualified for this debate again when you fail to put in a small amount of research to learn a term and have to pout at your own lack of knowledge?

Seriously quit being such a douche.

Anyways, they have cloaking; that might do a lot, it might do a little. Unless you have some inside tip as to how the Imperium's sensors would interact with cloaking technology from another universe.

Modquisition on

Seriously quit being such a douche.

Seriously thicken your skin, and learn to do some research of your own.

To all parties:

"Seriously" cease and desist comments in this manner or risk this thread being closed and disciplinary action taken.

Wait. This is not even relevant to this thread anymore. We're discussing who has better technology and I am positive that Emperors Faithful didn't have this in mind.

Frazzled is it wrong that I expect Orkeosaurus to do his own research and bring hard numbers to a debate? Is it wrong to call a person ignorant when they have demonstrated such behavior? I can be more civil, but he has shown an unwillingness to do anything more than repeat the same phrases over and over and attack my statements with sound and fury rather than with numbers and logic and it is frankly irritating, like debating with a screaming child who think he's right because he learned a few things in science class.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

deadratman wrote:Wait. This is not even relevant to this thread anymore. We're discussing who has better technology and I am positive that Emperors Faithful didn't have this in mind.

How can we debate the military might of each force if we don't analyze their weapons? Any debate of who would win in a sci-fi battle comes down to who is better equipped to deal with the enemy.

Wow. And I thought YMTC had heated discussions...

Norade wrote:Frazzled is it wrong that I expect Orkeosaurus to do his own research and bring hard numbers to a debate? Is it wrong to call a person ignorant when they have demonstrated such behavior? I can be more civil, but he has shown an unwillingness to do anything more than repeat the same phrases over and over and attack my statements with sound and fury rather than with numbers and logic and it is frankly irritating, like debating with a screaming child who think he's right because he learned a few things in science class.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

deadratman wrote:Wait. This is not even relevant to this thread anymore. We're discussing who has better technology and I am positive that Emperors Faithful didn't have this in mind.

How can we debate the military might of each force if we don't analyze their weapons? Any debate of who would win in a sci-fi battle comes down to who is better equipped to deal with the enemy.

Yes but technically we are not debating each force.We are debating where lasers come from or who can boil an ocean. And were actually talking about The Empire and the Imperium.