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Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
@whatwhat: That doesn't look like admiral Ackbar...
Also, simply enough. Callidus assasins. Apart from No.2 I have rarely heard mention of any really ELITE assasins, Star Wars mostly has incompetent thugs. Hardly in leage with the Assasinourium.
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
Frazzled wrote:40K Imperium has nothing comparable to a death star. Sorry.
BLACK STONE FORTRESS.
Planetkiller!
Planetkiller takes hours. As noted the Death Star committed extreme BAYSPLOSION on a planet in under a second.
I'll give you the Black Fortress. But the feral MonKeigh can't operate their big guns. Only the eldar and evidently a proximity to a necron fleet...
Look at the trouble the Imperium had with a Death Star er um World Engine, yea World Engine no IP issues there...
On the flip side, the Empire has nothing similar to a Nova Cannon. You have to respect the Nova Cannon.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
FITZZ wrote: If a bunch of stormtroopers couldn't hold up against a bunch of 3 foot teddy bears waving sticks,how well do you think they would do against a mob of Orkz..especialy considering the stormtroopers are worse shots.
You have an EXTREME POINT. Even the might of the Empire cannot survive George Lucas left to his own devices...er fluffy teddy bears.
ON the positive, a nice visualization of a space battle between chaos and Imperium capital sheets would be Babylon Five Earth Alliance ships fighting each other-complete with lances and fighters.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/14 13:54:33
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I wonder how a deflector shield would manage against a D-Cannon.
I also wonder if the Star Wars geeks feel like they are defending their chosen set of pretty pictures against "those ignorant chest-beating 40k savages" as much as 40k oriented people consider the Star Wars stuff to be "puny and in dire need of conquering".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/14 14:10:55
Dakka. You need more of it. No exceptions.
You ask me for an evil hamburger. I hand you a raccoon.-Captain Gordino
What are you talking about? They're Space Marines, which are heroic. They need to be able to do all the heroic stuff. They fight aliens and don't afraid of anything. -Orkeosarus
Orkeosaurus wrote:Death Star 2 was never even finished.
"Now I will show them the power of my FULLY OPERATIONAL DEATH STAR!"
Manchu wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
"blah blah blah Battle Station!" I think you meant to say.
All the shooty bits worked at least. The shield came from...Endor? The teddy bear moon. They'd have to finish the thing before moving it unless they wanted to immediately lose it to gettings it's entire exposed half shot out.
Dakka. You need more of it. No exceptions.
You ask me for an evil hamburger. I hand you a raccoon.-Captain Gordino
What are you talking about? They're Space Marines, which are heroic. They need to be able to do all the heroic stuff. They fight aliens and don't afraid of anything. -Orkeosarus
Railguns wrote:"blah blah blah Battle Station!" I think you meant to say.
Yeah, that is what I meant. I haven't gotten around to memorizing the movie yet.
I'm still on "IT"S A TRAP!"
Manchu wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Death Star 2 was never even finished.
I counter with:
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
I'm pretty well grounded in both universes. And that includes the extended star wars universe. So let's just quickly run over the relevant data.
SW Forces There are actually several types of Imperial infantry. The first is the Imperial Trooper, which is basically a cadian guardsman. They're the standard garrison on most world, wear light armour, and carry blaster rifles. They go through fairly standard training. The second type of troop is the Stormtroopers. Stormtroopers are actually supposedly the more elite soldiers, and whilst they're produced in far greater quantities than a space marine, are only about the same level as a Stormtrooper. They have similar armour and armament.
The Empires ace in the hole infantry wise would be the Dark Trooper. They're basically giant armoured exoskeletons with a crap load of weapons and armour. They also look a lot like a marine, and are equivalent in armour and height. Vehicle wise, they usually have small walkers, equivalent to the sentinel in the AT-PT, and the AT-ST. They also have hundreds of different variations, from artillery, to crab droids. I'm not even gonna go into that. But suffice to say, without even including AT-AT's, they can match anything the imperium has tank wise.
Link to their armaments:-http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Imperial_vehicles
Imperial Spaceships vary in size but are typically far smaller then Imperium Ships. An standard Imperial Star Destroyer carries sixty Turbolasers, about 12 Ion Cannons, a few Tractor Beams. A Star Destroyer is about a tenth of the size of a standard Imperium capital ship. A Super Star Destroyer is about the same size as an Imperial Capital Ship, and an Eclipse Class Star Destroyer is about four times the size of an Imperium Capital Ship. A Victory Class Star Destroyer is about a sixteenth the size of an imperium Cruiser. That's most of the common types out of the way.
Initially the Super Star Destroyer was a one off, and the Lusankya And Executor were produced. However, the design later entered general circulation, so it is a standard production model. The Super Star Destroyer possessed much the same armaments as a Imperial Star Destroyer, just in greater amounts. Also, it had launch bays for forty fighter squadrons, as opposed to the Imperial Classes
six. The Eclipse class was a one off ship that contained a superlaser powerful enough to crack the the surface of a world. It only possessed about a quarter the power of the death star, but it's still enough to overload and trash an imperium warship or blackstone fortress in one go.
Tactics wise, sw is far different to 40K in space battle. Whilst the duelling between capital ships is far more close range, you forget the fighters. If there are bombers in significant amounts, they are capable of overwhelming ships easily. Not only that, but SW battles are far quicker than 40K ones, as SW ships have far faster engines. The Imperium would find it hard to fight a naval battle the traditional way, instead, it would be more like fighting against the Eldar.
In a campaign, the Empire holds first strike capability, as it's hyperdrive and communications systems are far more predictable and reliable than the Imperiums. They also hold the initiative in any space battles. However, their ships are smaller and more fragile on the whole than the imperium ones, so it would come down to which side was tactically better in a space engagement. On the land side of things, both sides are equally capable in weapons, and armaments. On the campaign side, the Imperium has far more in terms of raw manpower to throw than the Empire. However, the Empire has far better production capacity, and unlike many of the Imperiums weapons, they can replace their entire range ofexisting weaponry. Not only that, but the hyperdrive system makes it far easier to move manpower, around, and resupply on a regular basis.
In conclusion:The Imperium of man has far more raw power than the Empire. It's ships are bigger and more destructive, and it has far greater numbers. However, the Empire has the tactical advantages of engaging when and where they want, and having a reliable resupply and reinforcement network. Who would win? Hard to say.
Before anyone starts mentioning orbital bombardment, both sides have it, and I didn't include jedi, or exterminatus, or death stars because those are all relatively rare occurences, and wouldn't affect things too much on a galactic campaign scale.
No regular ships in Star Wars have an effective range of more than 1,000 km or so. (Which is perfectly sensible, as the universe was made for the movies, which wanted to show exciting battle scenes that didn't involve astronomical distances between enemy ships.)
In contrast "no more than a few thousand kilometers" is base contact in Battlefleet Gothic. This means while the Empire has a huge strategic advantage, the Imperium dominates on a tactical level (as the Empire is required to engage their enemy in what are extremely close quarters to the Imperium).
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
This reminds me of the Space Marine v Halo Spartan thread in general discussion.
On the ground, is the Imperium were to deploy Titan Legions, isn't even a lowly Warhound like twice the size of an AT-AT, faster, and better armed and armored?
I can see elite SW Stormtroopers to be about equal to Imperial Guard Stormtroopers, but I'd think the backup of space marines with chainsaw swords and exploding bolts that blow people in half might turn the tide. Would a blaster even scratch say, a dreadnought? There are likely awesome ground vehicles I don't know anything about, since I'm not really familiar with the extended universe.
This is a geek war of epic proportions we could probably argue forever.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/14 18:37:04
Wait, how does the empire have a huge strategic advantage?
Manchu wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
Herpaderp. Crossover threads are a complete waste of time.
P.S. On the ground, the Imperium obviously meets great success. In the air, Airspeeders and Spacefighters (TIE variants) deployed in atmosphere dominant Imperial Navy. In space, fleets of the Imperium have range and durability over Star Destroyer variants. Void shields > SW shields.
Exarch_Nektel wrote:Wait, how does the empire have a huge strategic advantage?
Much faster and more reliable, in terms of both the ships and their communication.
(Although, psykers and The Emperor's Tarot could give the Imperium some forewarning of an attack. Even if they couldn't mobilize defenders from other systems, they'd be able to try and engage the Empire from as great a distance as they could, at put the huge range gulf into play...)
Also, I don't think Empire stormtrooper armor is all that great, really. I mean, the fully enclosed suit is nice against harsh environments or chemical weaponry and the like, but in terms of taking a hit it's just not all that great. Blasters don't generally blow arms off or blow chunks out of walls like lasguns, but they still take down stormtroopers with a shot to the chest.
I would say it's more comparable to what Eldar Guardians have than carapace.
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Exarch_Nektel wrote:Wait, how does the empire have a huge strategic advantage?
Much faster and more reliable, in terms of both the ships and their communication.
That's because their galaxy is a dwarf galaxy. Ours is not.
Manchu wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
Orkeosaurus wrote:
Also, I don't think Empire stormtrooper armor is all that great, really. I mean, the fully enclosed suit is nice against harsh environments or chemical weaponry and the like, but in terms of taking a hit it's just not all that great. Blasters don't generally blow arms off or blow chunks out of walls like lasguns, but they still take down stormtroopers with a shot to the chest.
I would say it's more comparable to what Eldar Guardians have than carapace.
Hotshot Lasguns would probably melt SW Stormtroopers, especially since it melts power armor, so I guess you are right.
I think they might lose some morale when their comrades are exploding like bloody meatsacks from bolt shells and having limbs blown off by lasguns rather than the PG falling over with a tiny scorch hole like the movies (is it bloodier in the expanded universe books?).
Jedi vs a Librarian would be an interesting fight.
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
i read it in one of the books.
it also looks small.
Manchu wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
relevant text, 400 billion stars, 1 million habitable worlds, 20 million intelligent species (wow that seems unrealistically high), 100,000 lightyears in diameter
I am also going to point out that mixing universes is always going to end up in arguements like this.
For instance, which is better, a Space Marine or Master Chief?
Manchu wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
I completely agree with Orkeosaurus but one question is, at what point in each time line does the cross over occur?
If at the time of pre heresy then Star Wars has a chance of winning because the massive planet killers and and weapons of mass destruction hadn't been perfected and chaos didn't really exist as marines.
But if set after the destruction of the Sith and Empire and Death Star then 40K would win as the Star Wars universe is trying more to rebuild than create more weapons and mobilize for war. Although some old weapons of the republic could be used....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/14 20:23:00
Star Wars is set in the far past.
40k is set in the far future.
The Star Wars universe has probably advanced quite a bit since the movies.
Manchu wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
I am also going to point out that mixing universes is always going to end up in arguements like this.
For instance, which is better, a Space Marine or Master Chief?
That thread is on like page 3 of general discussion
I am also going to point out that mixing universes is always going to end up in arguements like this.
For instance, which is better, a Space Marine or Master Chief?
That thread is on like page 3 of general discussion
yep.
Manchu wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
daedalus-templarius wrote:1 million habitable worlds, 20 million intelligent species
lolwut
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Congratulations, that was the stupidest remark the entire wargaming community has managed to produce in a long, long time.
Congratulations, your dismissive and conclusory commentary has provided nothing to this discussion or the wider community on whose behalf you arrogantly presume to speak nor does it engage in any meaningful way the remark it lamely targets. But you did manage to gain experience points toward your next level of internet tough guy.
Renegade Guardsmen 
