Lord-Loss Genestealer Game 1-GAME OVER, GENESTEALERS CLAIM VICTORY.

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**Mekboy**

If I was trying to get the day to end quickly, I would have voted earlier. There is a gap of several post and 5 hours between n0t_u voting for Vulkan and me voting for Vulkan. In that time people could quite easily have changed votes from Vulkan, and my alleged attempt to stop that day's conversation would have been foiled. I voted on the 12th, which was a Saterday. I usually spend quite a while on my laptop on Saterdays (no school).

**Lord-Loss**

Ye Fourth Voting Summary.

Thor665-Airman
N0t_u-
Gornall-Thor665
Airman-
Mekboy-Gornall
Arheiner-
BrotherStynier-

With 7 people alive, its 4 to Lynch.

**Thor665**

airman wrote:I believe that Thor is trying to get everybody's gaze off him and on Gornall.

How do you believe everyone's gaze was focused on me, airman? So far there had been one vote for Mekboy and a very brief discussion of me that actually Stynier dismissed and I then encouraged that it shouldn't be totally dismissed.

I can't be guilty of acting suspicious by shifting suspicion if the suspicion never existed in the first place and by the time I voted for Gornall conversation had already shifted away from me and onto Mekboy.

Could you explain exactly what suspicion I was trying to shift off of me and when?

**Gornall**

I'm finding these last couple of votes "interesting" to say the least. While I think Thor's reasoning of why he voted for me ("You were quieter yesterday") far from convincing (I would argue that it's downright flimsy), I also don't know if I would characterize it as trying to shift suspicion away from himself. I'm more likely to look at it as trying to give an alternative to Mekboy, if anything.

I would like to see more input from everyone else. We have way too many sitting in the shadows, letting a small group debate back and forth. Everyone needs to be involved.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Hmm, I find Mekboy's defense a little flimsy, and at the same time I even find Gornall's demand for others to join in the debate to be suspicious as well. Perhaps you simply wish to have more people involved so a slip up by you would be less likely noticed?

**Thor665**

Maybe - but certainly conversation is helpful to us as otherwise we're just waiting for the Genestealers to kill again (deadline) and being able to make choices based on some evidence (talking) is better then making choices based on no evidence at all.

**Arheiner**

I agree with that, and i'd also like to ask to hear Gornalls story, he's been interrogating everyone but we haven't heard anything about him yet.

**Gornall**

BrotherStynier wrote:Hmm, I find Mekboy's defense a little flimsy, and at the same time I even find Gornall's demand for others to join in the debate to be suspicious as well. Perhaps you simply wish to have more people involved so a slip up by you would be less likely noticed?

I'm suspicious because I want everyone to participate? I'm not sure if I follow your logic there. Having people sit back and say nothing only helps the traitors IMO.

I agree with that, and i'd also like to ask to hear Gornalls story, he's been interrogating everyone but we haven't heard anything about him yet.

OOC:: After the first game of Genestealer, I really don't do the whole backstory/roleplaying thing anymore. People got too hung up on that and didn't follow the logical stuff. However, I'm more than willing to answer any questions regarding my ingame actions.

IC:: I've simply been asking questions that I think are valid and important to our continued survival. I don't want the traitors to triumph simply because we were too afraid or too polite to ask the difficult questions.

**airman**

UNVOTE: Thor665

**Thor665**

Do I take it by your unvote, airman, that you agree with my assessment of your logic that I wasn't trying to shift anything (presuming there even was anything)?

I liked that you expressed your reasons for your vote - as that let's me and others see your logic and address it. An unvote can be done the same way, by letting others know if your thoughts had changed or not.

Still would like to hear from n0t_u as it's been a couple days and even on his side of the world I suppose it has to have been daytime at some point in there.

@Gornall - dropping the last vote is certainly suspicious - however I'm not sure it classifies as too solid of a lead on Mekboy. What about his actions yesterday and today do you find as most suspicious beyond simply dropping the hammer on Vulkan?

**Gornall**

Dropping the hammer on Vulkan is only part of it. I'm coupling that with his initial vote which was on someone who already had a vote against him. Alone, each of those events are fairly minor, but together it seems like eagerness to see people lynched. That and him and Brother Stynier's little back and forth was a "interesting" for lack of a better term.

It's far from concrete, but it's what I've got to go on at the moment. Almost lack of better options if you will. Hopefully, more evidence will turn up today to help give a better feel for who the traitors are.

**SagesStone**

OOC: Yeah I was just taking a break from the game as I wasn't really in the mood for a game like this. It's been really hot >_>
In fact its gone from really hot to what I suspect England is like for about a week. One day it's really hot and sunny, the next cold and raining or just overcast >_>

Anyway Thor was suspicious at first and might still be, but Mekboy seems to be more so at the moment. I agree that him dropping the hammer on Vulkan seemed rather hasty as if he want us to hurry up and vote, which would only lead to a mistake. It's obvious that he might have known that Vulkan wasn't actually a Genestealler and that might have been the reason for his vote. He has said that it was a mistake and he simply hadn't kept track of the vote, that might be true. But, explaining that it was just a mistake could simply be his way of dealing with the suspicion created by his vote. Still at the moment it seems like the best bet. I'll think about it a little bit more and look over the few pages before casting my vote, rather than quickly throw it out there as that will get us nowhere. Hopefully we lynch the right person this time.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Thor665 wrote:Maybe - but certainly conversation is helpful to us as otherwise we're just waiting for the Genestealers to kill again (deadline) and being able to make choices based on some evidence (talking) is better then making choices based on no evidence at all.

While that is true he is still more than vocal about it. Though I could see how it is helpful.

Gornall wrote:
BrotherStynier wrote:Hmm, I find Mekboy's defense a little flimsy, and at the same time I even find Gornall's demand for others to join in the debate to be suspicious as well. Perhaps you simply wish to have more people involved so a slip up by you would be less likely noticed?

I'm suspicious because I want everyone to participate? I'm not sure if I follow your logic there. Having people sit back and say nothing only helps the traitors IMO.

Only in that you are being most vocal about everyone speaking.

**Gornall**

I still don't see what you're getting at. Because I'm being the most vocal for a plan of action that most would agree benefits us, I'm suspicious? I could see that argument if I was acting differently than what I was preaching (aka hiding in the shadows while I exhort people to talk more), but I've been transparent in my thought process and my voting, trying to add constructive dialog to this conversation.

OOC:: I've been really vocal about it because the game is boring without more people interacting. It's kinda sad to only see one or two posters talking each day... and it's only going to get worse as the holidays roll up.

**Thor665**

I agree Gornall's less then helpful commentary Day 1 was iffy when he kept dropping votes on people to "get them to talk" - in fact that is the basis to some degree of my vote on him right now.

That said I agree with the base principal - which is people should talk (and vote and explain logic while we're at it). Is there any particular aspect of Gornall's talking stance that has you uneasy?

**Gornall**

Dropping votes on people to get them to talk? I don't see where that is coming from. I placed a random vote on Vulkan (OOC:: RVS and all that) and kept it there because he never addressed it. If anyone was "dropping votes on people to get them to talk", it was you and Arnheiner:

Thor665 wrote: We have 3 people not voting, that is not helping our situation. We need a few more people feeling some actual pressure to get some more conversation going. I also didn't care for how he hopped on the Mekboy vote without bothering to explain anything or to even so much as nod in Gornall's direction.

Unvote airman
Vote Vulkan_He'stan

Followed by:

Arheiner wrote:Vote: Vulkan_He'stan

Not a random vote or jumping on the bandwagon (as such), I'm just trying to add more pressure on him to explain his vote on Mekboy.

I'm not saying that those actions are suspicious, because frankly he did need to talk and at least address the vote against him. But if you're going to accuse me of being suspicious because I did something, at least make sure I'm the one who did it.

As for less than helpful commentary, what exactly are you refering to? I think any truthful commentary is better than none. It lets people see multiple angles and make their own decision rather than follow blindly behind whoever happens to be the loudest at that time.

**Thor665**

Gornall wrote:Dropping votes on people to get them to talk? I don't see where that is coming from. I placed a random vote on Vulkan (OOC:: RVS and all that) and kept it there because he never addressed it. If anyone was "dropping votes on people to get them to talk", it was you and Arnheiner:

First off - please don't try to pretend you were not doing anything.

Gornall wrote:In all seriousness, he has not responded to my vote against him, and until he does it will stay there. My plan is to continue voting for people to force them to talk before moving on to the next suspect.

Second off - it is this stated intent of action paired with what I perceived (as previously mentioned by me when I voted for you) your less then stellar contribution to the conversation. I would have been more content with your votes to get people to talk if you were talking more.

**Gornall**

What I'm saying, is how are my actions any different, let alone worse than anyone else's--including yourself? Everyone on day one was tossing random votes, bouncing from person to person as each person responded. I was unlucky enough that the first person I cast a vote for never responded to it. Why would I remove it when he hadn't answered it? You said so yourself in the quote I mentioned above that he hadn't so much as given me the time of day. Once again, I think I have offered as much to the conversation as anyone else, commenting on things I thought were suspicious on both days. I will admit that I did not participate much in the "backstory" squabble of Not_U/Stynier/Mekboy or your argument with EF, as I didn't see any point in it. If you disagree, I would like to hear why so I can maybe answer you better.

OOC:: It's good to see some life in this thread. I was afraid it was going to go the way of Dark_O's.

**Thor665**

You earlier agreed with me that your participation on Day 1 had not been up to your usual standards - I'm surprised you need me to point out specifics, but shall do so.

Gornall wrote:What I'm saying, is how are my actions any different, let alone worse than anyone else's--including yourself? Everyone on day one was tossing random votes, bouncing from person to person as each person responded.

I am not voting you for bouncing from person to person (you didn't) or for making a random vote (I did so as well and encouraged the action). Therefore this is irrelevant.

I was unlucky enough that the first person I cast a vote for never responded to it. Why would I remove it when he hadn't answered it? You said so yourself in the quote I mentioned above that he hadn't so much as given me the time of day.

I was voting for him as well come the lynch. I also never said I was voting you for not removing your vote from Vulkan - so again this is irrelevant.

Once again, I think I have offered as much to the conversation as anyone else, commenting on things I thought were suspicious on both days. I will admit that I did not participate much in the "backstory" squabble of Not_U/Stynier/Mekboy or your argument with EF, as I didn't see any point in it. If you disagree, I would like to hear why so I can maybe answer you better.

Ah, this I actually accused you of!

You will find elow my runthrough of your Day 1 comments. What I am noting here is that despite your high activity level (and high demands for others to speak) generally speaking what you have to say is not working towards the goal of finding scum and also is not to the level of activity and scum hunting I have come to expect of you. Posting more while not posting usefully is really not any different from lack of posting. I am willing to accept there are perhaps others who have done less scumhunting then you, but none of them have worked so hard to appear active and demand more talking while doing as little as you, and that's why I'm currently putting a vote on you.

Post 1 - swearing to the Emperor
2 - LOL post
3 - ask what we should do
4 - note that everyone else is too quiet (that was quick)
5 - Random vote Vulkan in response to my suggestion of random votes
6 - explanation of joke
7 - commentary about how Arheiner should talk more
8 - request for more random votes (a reasonable post as it advanced town's goals)
9 - question about the n0t_u story confusion thing
10 - dismissal of the story thing
11 - claim lotg is too quiet
12 - suspect Arheiner, state reasons for voting Vulkan (first truly helpful post)
13 - joking with me
14 - State that logic will help us find Genestealers (I got suspicious at this point, you were posting often, but not really posting usefully. It seemed unlike you)
15 - discussion of potential Stynier/Mekboy link with doubt cast at Arheiner (a good post, first sign of true scum hunting in my opinion)
16 - Excited that Vulkan posted, demand of him to answer your vote on him
17,18,19 discussion of RVS and joking with me
20 - basically post 16 again
21 - scum hunting Vulkan (good post)

End of Day

**Lord-Loss**

Ye Fifth Voting Summary.

Thor665-
N0t_u-
Gornall-(1)Thor665
Airman-
Mekboy-(1)Gornall
Arheiner-
BrotherStynier-

With 7 people alive, its 4 to Lynch.

Not much has changed.

**Gornall**

Now that sounds reasonable and now I have a better understanding of why you're finding me suspicious.

My only defense is that frankly, there wasn't a lot to work with on Day 1. First posts were getting settled back into a new game. We then had the story confusion, which is basically worthless for determining guilt(OOC:: look at past games for examples). Then Airman voted for Arnheiner... no biggie. Hadn't seen LotG yet (who is ALWAYS talkative, and turned out to not be invovled at all this game), so I mentioned that. We watch some more arguing over backstories. I then give what you say is a useful post. My next post is pretty worthless, I'll admit. What I was trying to get at was now that the backstory nonsense was over, we could get down to business. My next post attempted to show some of the things I had picked up from the back and forth exchange between several people. I ignore you and EF going at it, as I don't see much there to work with yet.... simply two people suspicious of each other with little to go on. Then Vulkan finally shows up (for 2 posts) so I'm stoked that I finally get to talk to him and see what he does. However, he doesn't talk much and what he does say is fairly incriminating, so I have no reason to pull my vote. Day ends fairly suddenly.

Day 2 starts. Airman voices concern you might be the suspect because EF dies. I give obligitory "oh noez" post and wait to see how people respond to his accusation. Stynier jumps in says that EF getting killed is obviously a frame-up. Me and you both basically say the same thing at the same time about how appearances can be decieving and not to put too much stock in night kills. We also both question Mekboy on why he dropped the hammer. Mekboy says he miscounted and I reply I find that hard to believe (which I do, given a vote count had just been given on that same page), hoping he'll expand on it. Arnheiner and Mekboy both voice regret, and because I find Mekboy's defense lacking, I throw a vote on him, basically telling him to expand on his defense. I get accused of voting quickly, to which I respond I'd rather have votes out in the open where we have a solid record of them. You vote for me, Airman then thinks you're trying to shift suspicion off of yourself. I state I don't think that was what you were trying to do given the state of the conversation... at worst you might have been trying to get heat off of Mekboy (which you've done, I might add). Then we get into this conversation.

All I'm saying is that I HAVE done some "scum-hunting" and tried to post valid posts. They might not be the most concrete things, but given how early things are, I don't know how much more I could have input.

**airman**

Gornall wrote:I get accused of voting quickly...

I didn't accuse you, I just stated that it was very suspicious that you voted so quickly.

**Thor665**

Gornall wrote:many things and... at worst you might have been trying to get heat off of Mekboy (which you've done, I might add). Then we get into this conversation.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said except the above. The only reason focus "shifted" off Mekboy was simply that you kept seeking further understanding as to my vote for you, and I kept offering it. Initially I was content to leave it at my vote and the reasons stated without excess expounding. Lack of pressure on Mekboy is more a result of him not saying anything else yet and nobody else choosing to continue the pressure you originally applied - and has very little, I submit, to do with my vote on you. I am quite content with some pressure on Mekboy, though I am also quite content with some pressure on you.

@ Everyone else - The game and the hunting of scum would greatly benefit from people expressing a few more opinions and putting out some votes. We do not want to lynch anyone quickly, like in Day 1, but pressure from votes helps us see patterns as well as make people try to defend themselves or demonize others. So be mindful about putting the last one or two votes on someone, but don't be afraid to vote if you think someone has done something suspicious.

**SagesStone**

OCC: Well not much has changed since yesterday its more or less gone in a circle. I'd vote to put pressure on someone, but that's the thing, I'm not sure about who to put the pressure on.

The suspicious ones to me are Airman and Mekboy. You are still a bit suspicious, Thor, but you might not be a Genestealler. Still I'm not quite sure who to vote for out of the two

**airman**

n0t_u wrote:The suspicious ones to me are Airman and Mekboy.

How am I suspicious?

**Thor665**

A good question, airman.

n0t_u - you are already in a good place because to your mind there are 2-3 people who are more suspicious then everyone else. I would advocate either expressing why you find airman/Mekboy more suspicious to see how people react to your reasoning. Or, if you find them equally suspicious, just flip a coin to choose. It is the job of every loyal Imperial here to try to make enough action and choices to help expose the Genestealers - you can't sit back and hope more active people will do it alone because they cannot without everyone reacting.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I will admit that my day one voting could have come across as suspicious with my staying with the vote and explanation of it for n0t_u and then immediately jumping off of the one on Mekboy, I wished to keep it different to attempt to throw people and the creatures off. I will admit that most likely failed.

Now though after watching there are two people I trust more than others, at this time those people are Thor, and despite my challenging him as a heretic Gornall.

**airman**

OOC:@lord loss
Please PM Arheiner

**Lord-Loss**

Totally forgot about Arheiner, I will at that now.

edit: Its been two days, Im not going to hand out warnings, as it wont help.

**Arheiner**

OK, I'm here. I've just been really tired lately and trying not to use the PC too much.