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Grot 6 wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, Warmachine is not cheaper for the buck. We'll find out what happens with the plastic jacks, but if what I expect is going to happen, they will pull a few more pages out of GW's book and try to claim some sort of ace in the hole excuse as to thier price increase like GW did.

We already know the price of plastic jacks, the heavies are all $35. Which is considerably more expensive than the metals. +25% in the case of Cryx, which used to be the cheapest.

Didn't Slayers cost something like $15 when WM came out?

JohnHwangDD wrote:Didn't Slayers cost something like $15 when WM came out?

Heavy jacks always competed with space marine dreadnauts if I remember right. They always seemed to price themselves to their major competitor and then advertise that you need less to play. Thats the big crux of the issue, they aren't cheaper, you just need less. You need even fewer heroclix, and if you buy a pack of cards you can spend like 2 dollars. It's all in how much you want to own, there's no real inherent value to the volume of miniatures required to play. Some people like a more sweeping "army" game, versus a more in depth squad level affair. Due to it's scale 40K's simpler ruleset can still maintain a level of complication, huge games of warmachine start to bog down fairly quickly because it becomes a bit too in depth.

@Grot: In the interest of a more real world comparison:

My current tournament SM list: 1750

Librarian
2x Tactical w/ Powerfist Sgt, Lascannon/Flamer, Razorback
1x Tactical w/ Powerfist Sgt, Multimelta, Meltagun, Combimelta, Drop Pod
2x Ironclad Dreadnoughts, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod
2x Vindicator
1x Landspeeder Tornado

Cost:
$15 - Librarian
$75 - Black Reach for 2x Tac and 2x Dread in trade. A stretch, but we're going for cheap here.
$35 - Tactical for sgt bits and meltagun
$17 - Captain for combiweapon bits and powerfist
$35 - Devestators for Heavy weapons and Sgt bits
$70 - Razorback x2
$90 - Drop Pod x3
$82.50 - Vindicator x2
$30 - Landspeeder
--------------------------
Total: $449.50 GW MSRP in US Funds
Bonus: You have 10 extra terminators, assuming you were able to trade the black reach stuff and didn't buy it seperately.

750 points Khador MK1 Tournament List - I do not know what normal tournament sizes are as our group rarely plays tournament 1000 point games due to time constraints - in the interest completeness, I will pro-rate the cost by the appropriate amount:

$10 - Kommandant Irusk
$40 - Devestator
$84 - MOW Demolition Corps (Full)
$20 - Widowmakers
$47 - Assault Kommandos x8
$41 - Winterguard base w/ UA
$30 - MOW Drakhun
$36 - Greylords Ternion x2
$15 - Yuri the Axe
$18 - Manhunter x2
$10 - Eyriss
-----------------------------------
Total: $311 PP MSRP in US Funds
Prorate to 1000 points: $415

lord_blackfang wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, Warmachine is not cheaper for the buck. We'll find out what happens with the plastic jacks, but if what I expect is going to happen, they will pull a few more pages out of GW's book and try to claim some sort of ace in the hole excuse as to thier price increase like GW did.

We already know the price of plastic jacks, the heavies are all $35. Which is considerably more expensive than the metals. +25% in the case of Cryx, which used to be the cheapest.

The added price is, in theory, because each kit will include parts to make one of multiple 'jacks (e.g. Cygnar's will make an ironclad, defender, and the new one with the two gatling guns).

That said, cost is relative based on what people are willing to pay and what you'll have fun with.

syr8766 wrote:
The added price is, in theory, because each kit will include parts to make one of multiple 'jacks (e.g. Cygnar's will make an ironclad, defender, and the new one with the two gatling guns).

I just wonder why this explanation completely appeases PP fans but it never worked for GW. We're absolutely outraged if a plastic kit isn't considerably cheaper than the metal version, regardless of modularity and extra bitz.

I just wonder why this explanation completely appeases PP fans but it never worked for GW. We're absolutely outraged if a plastic kit isn't considerably cheaper than the metal version, regardless of modularity and extra bitz

.

Thats very true and very funny.

lord_blackfang wrote:

syr8766 wrote:
The added price is, in theory, because each kit will include parts to make one of multiple 'jacks (e.g. Cygnar's will make an ironclad, defender, and the new one with the two gatling guns).

I just wonder why this explanation completely appeases PP fans but it never worked for GW. We're absolutely outraged if a plastic kit isn't considerably cheaper than the metal version, regardless of modularity and extra bitz.

Some do complain about it, but I imagine they're the same ones who complained about gW.

Grot 6 wrote:Mind numbing?

Its not that big of a deal to figure out.

I broke it down to a basic get in the door to it, it is just as I wrote, minus state tax on my end... Where I live.

Where you live it breaks down to how much is one basic army cost. I mean basic as something you can build up and put right on the table.

I used the basic of the basic for my comparison.

the AOBR, which gives you a good start on 2 armies, Orks and Space Marines.

And

a Khador box of 2 jacks and a caster, and additional jack, a ten man unit, a solo, and a couple of attachments (The Mercs.)

Now thats not accounting for discounts , specail deals, percentage drops per area, state and local tax, country tax, etc. Thats just how much it costs in my area.

Unit for unit, cost per cost, you can look at it in different lights.

Cost is relative to the one who wants to pay.


Put it another way-

If you were to walk into your LGS, decide out of the blue that you wanted to invest yourt ime, money and energy into a game system, there is more to the issue then the simple angle of monitary cost.

Yeah, okay. 10 man kossite unit? Way to pad man. Boomhowler? Great choice. I mean, really, I don't understand how you can't see that you're giving a very tipped example of price range. "If you buy the bare minimum and save a lot with the AoBR and play only one or the other of those races, it'll be a ton cheaper than a bunch of superfluous and otherwise very expensive units that are maxed out!"
Keezus has it right.

lord_blackfang wrote:

syr8766 wrote:
The added price is, in theory, because each kit will include parts to make one of multiple 'jacks (e.g. Cygnar's will make an ironclad, defender, and the new one with the two gatling guns).

I just wonder why this explanation completely appeases PP fans but it never worked for GW. We're absolutely outraged if a plastic kit isn't considerably cheaper than the metal version, regardless of modularity and extra bitz.

Not being a complete donkey-cave to your fans probably helps.

Sidstyler wrote:
Not being a complete donkey-cave to your fans probably helps.

Certainly doesn't hurt things.

Also doesn't hurt that the PP community has far less rabble-rousers spreading misery and hatred like a pestilence.

Are you trying to be ironic Aggy?

Aggy, thats right, PP doesnt.... and do you know why it doesnst?
The rabble rousing pestilance spreaders dont get bailer poled by PP.
There is a saying. starts off, Fool me once.....

GW flipped off alot of people, multiple times in a very short time. serves em right to be blasted and ridiculed.

Now enough with name calling.

Edit: and still no one answered my questions on list suggestions.

Hawkins wrote:
Now enough with name calling.
.

Indeed.