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mattyrm wrote:Aye calm down lads, no need to get so heated, neither of you blokes are muslims are you?

Thats all my point is, im obviously not saying all or even most muslims are bad people, im saying that to me it seems like the religion is not criticized as much as others, speicifically Chrsitianity, and when i say it is down to fear, people dispute it, but what else would it be?

There is a portion of the community of Islam that is hyper-sensitive to criticism. It's quite similar, basically, to the element of the African political scene that is hyper-sensitive about criticism of Africa.

It gets complicated because there are genuine issues within Islam, just as there are genuine issues with Africa, but there is also a lot of ignorant bigotry about Islam/Africa (in this thread Green Git claimed that the whole of Islam will only be happy with conquering the world) so they kind of have a point. It gets even more complicated because the bigotry goes the other way, with elements of Islam/Africa showing bigoted opinions towards the rest of the world, and parts of the rest of the world showing hyper-sensitivity to criticism.

The point is that real and substantial debate goes on despite all that rubbish. There are real movements to address the treatment of women in Islam, to address the rise of extremists. It's important to recognise and support these movements, and not fixate on the clash of cultures image the trash media loves to display.


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Deadshane1 wrote:Old Testement perhaps...I doubt you could do that well in the New, you know, were Jesus teaches ACTUAL tolerance and love?

...and not the "I want to cut your head off, but I'll be tolerant of you" brand of tolerance.

Yeah, but are you going to claim that Christians live up to the pacifist nature of the New Testament? Would you claim that it would even be possible for all people of a faith to follow that extent of pacifism?

I've read the Quoran, and the message I took was for a man to be educated, wise and disciplined. He was to use violence when needed, but only to fight the good fight - he was to a warrior scholar. No doubt that message has been perverted by some, but find me a faith that hasn't been perverted by some people.


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Deadshane1 wrote:To argue that all Islams are tolerant and peaceful is a ridiculous statement. Of course, I'm sure some are tolerant and peaceful, possibly even the majority.

I don't think anyone has argued all Muslims are tolerant, nor did anyone say that none were. Well, Green Git said they would only happy with conquering the world, but you know... Green Git. It's what you get from him.

The issue is how much you accept a very small minority should reflect on the majority. For some it's enough to damn them entirely, for others it shouldn't reflect the majority at all. I think both groups are wrong.

I mean, I know Muslims and I've found them a diverse and interesting lot, not found one of them held views I'd consider extreme, and when I meet Muslims in the future I'll continue taking each on his own terms. To be honest I feel a little sorry for people who act differently, going through life stereotyping people must make it hard to meet interesting people.

But that doesn't mean there aren't issues within greater Islam. I can understand the Taliban as a product of a disfunctional Afghani political situation, but I don't think the same holds for middle class second generation immigrants in the UK and US who are fed hatefilled stuff through their mosques - that's an issue Islam needs to recognise. Elements of Islam do recognise the problem, and hopefully in time more will.


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dogma wrote:Warning, this will be a very long post.

Mad props. Slow day at work?

Albatross, your post brought nothing to the table, but was a pleasure to read. Thanks for that. :-)

frgsinwntr wrote:
Shaman has earned a bonus point... and so did frazz

hooray..

having read the rest of the thread.. I can say that sweeping statements no matter how convenient are FAIL.

CAST YOUR EYES TO YOUR TRUE GOD HYPNOTOAD!

Do not tolerate the intolerant.
Let us not make the same mistake Chaimberlain made.

Creating your Avatar? (Damn that thing is creepy)

This thread has been...well I can't say it's really been worth it in all honesty, but Albatross' post, followed by dogma did wrap it up nicely for me.

KingCracker wrote:It COULD be good, but Im a realist, itll get ruined with all kinds of bureaucratic non sense and will all end in flames

Wed all be Necrons of sorts at least. So we would be legally owned by GW

They don't already? They sent me a C&D for using my first name.

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:Tolerance is in the eye of the beholder Dead.

I tolerate people who txt and drive but that doesn't mean I don't want to drag them from their car and beat them with a tire iron.

So I guess you can tolerate people while still wanting to cut off their head.

Will you please stop posting? Fraz, can you make him stop posting? Seriously, he quotes people than just makes up arguments to argue against. No one said any of that and his bigoted intentional ignorance is insulting to the the point of lunacy.

You might disgaree with his argument, but rebut it, politely. He's not being insulting to you in that post.

He is actually. The sheer depth of his mindless ignorance should be insulting to you as well. I can take insult in things that are not directly aimed at me, in fact its something I suspect many people are capable of. Yourself included. Perhaps you should look at his "argument" and understand that its just unabashed trolling with literally no substance what so ever. You should then act accordingly.

How am I trolling?

You mean to tell me that you only want to cut off heads of people you don't tolerate? That you've never tolerated someone and yet still wanted to slap them around.

Like some kid throwing a tantrum at the restaurant. You have to tolerate it and yet at the same time you want to throttle that kid? Am I right?

So how is that post ignorant? You can tolerate someone while still wanting to inflict harm upon them.

Really man, let it go. You want me perma-banned. We get it. I want the same from you so at least we agree on something.

sebster wrote:
Mad props. Slow day at work?

Pretty much. There are certain benefits to being overqualified.

How am I trolling?

You mean to tell me that you only want to cut off heads of people you don't tolerate? That you've never tolerated someone and yet still wanted to slap them around.

Thats how you're trolling. Your not engaging in any discussion here, you're just misquoting people (clearly intentionally, since none of the things you're arguing against were particularly close to what people were saying) and then arguing against them to make christians look like a persecuted niceguy group while anyone that doesn't agree with your opinions (that don't make sense) defends people that cut off heads.

You're just being a troll, you have nothing to say in this topic and it clearly shows. You're just trying to make people angry.

If it's making you angry then I did my job.

I had my say about the topic. I was on topic and I wasn't misquoting people.

I have been responding in kind to what Deadshane posted as far as passages from the Quran. Unless he is looking at a different copy of the Quran those passages say what they say. "Death to infidels and disbelievers" pretty much sums it up. The Bible may elude to violence against non-believers but not in the way the Quran does. That is the point Deadshane was making and I am backing him up. Take off your goddamn rose colored glasses Shuma. All religions have their violent extremists but not to the degree that Islam does.

I don't apologize for stepping on anyones toes. Until Frazz or Reds8n or KK tell me to cease and desist I clearly have not broken any rules. If I didn't already have 2 bans under my belt I'd be tempted to break rule #1 just because you are acting like an antagonizing prick right now.

Seriously, my opinion on Islam is no less valid then your opinion about Christianity and Christians. Maybe the majority of Muslims are friendly and peace loving but it's hard to take it seriously when people who practice it, even at the extreme end of the spectrum, do things like crash planes into skyscrapers and try to blow up airplanes with underwear and shoe bombs.

It's no different than your view of the tea party. You hold disdain for the tea party because to you they are too radical and dangerous (and conservative). Not all tea partiers are as radical as the ones attacked by the MSM but you yourself have painted a very broad picture of all tea partiers based on a few. If you are allowed to stand on your soapbox and look down upon tea partiers for those reasons then I too am allowed to do the same in regards to ANY religion (not just Islam) that isn't Christianity.

Again, get over yourself. Like I said, I'd break rule #1 but I'd rather not get another vacation (at least not a vacation I myself didn't voluntarily take).

This thread is closed.