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How did the marines armour look back in 2nd edition?

Necrosis wrote:How did the marines armour look back in 2nd edition?

More or less like this:



which still looks more effective than SoB armour.

And which further validates my point, like marines were redone, so should sisters

For human power armor, their models look perfectly fine. Some stylistic (read, not ultra-realistic like actually considering deflection angles... look at the vehicles for Emperor's sake) free-reign is a given in 40K. And in my opinion, the models are gorgeous as they are (Jes Goodwin's work will not be slandered in any way in my presence!). As we just covered not half a dozen posts ago, a good reason why Space Marine power armor is so bulky and lumpy is because they have mutated gorillas inside them.

And they have power armor because of the fluff. The Ecclessiarchy is FILTHY FILTHY FILTHY rich, with resources many times over that of several chapters combined (hell, probably all of them). They can afford to equip their troops with the best of the best, which is why their soldiers have power armor and carry boltguns just like Space Marines.

Krauser wrote:

Necrosis wrote:How did the marines armour look back in 2nd edition?

More or less like this:

which still looks more effective than SoB armour.

And which further validates my point, like marines were redone, so should sisters

technically, those are 1st edition rogue trader marines but the amount of armor hasn't changed much since then (they're a bit bulkier with 2nd ed and on).

Sister power armour has corsets and titty cups in it. It clearly doesn't look like it would give a 3+ save.

warboss wrote:

Krauser wrote:

Necrosis wrote:How did the marines armour look back in 2nd edition?

More or less like this:

which still looks more effective than SoB armour.

And which further validates my point, like marines were redone, so should sisters

technically, those are 1st edition rogue trader marines but the amount of armor hasn't changed much since then (they're a bit bulkier with 2nd ed and on).

Yeah, I know, but I couldn't be bothered to keep looking, so I just picked one of the first pics that I found.
Those are indeed RT era marines, but like you've said, the difference is not that much.

STYLE OVER REALISM! ABSTRACTION! WELCOME TO SWORD AND GUN FANTASY IN SPACE!

even the Dakka boards agree, as they double post even though I only clicked once.

While the Sisters look beautiful, the armour does not match the fluff. It roughly looks equivalent to Banshee or Fire Warrior armor. Due to this I voted 4+.

I like some of the slightly beefier concept art that is in this thread. I think the transition to plastics will probably beef them up to where they look right. Just hope GW puts some real love into the sculpts.

Melissia wrote:Lol, we can't have logic on dakka-dakka.

Go right ahead and dodge that question I asked you, probably a good idea since it destroys your entire argument thus far.

This is similar to Orks vs IG vs Tau in terms of strength. I think of it this way, SoB is low 3+, Marines mid 3+ and Crisis Suits high 3+.

It also says that it lacks the life support and strength enhancing functions of the marine's power armour. That would slim it down a bit in my opinion.

Actually no. Sisters get the same amount of protection as Astartes . It says so specifically in C:WH.

Yes, but goes on to mention that they have to forego the life support and strenght enhancing as they don't have the black carapace in the same paragraph.

I'm on your side in this

No, you said Sisters have "low 3+", which is false... if Marines are "high 3+", then so are Sisters, as their armor provides the same amount of protection. Life support would be T, and strength-enhancing would be S.

And what the Sisters armor lacks are the more ADVANCED life support and strength-enhancing systems... not all of them, as some people try and suggest (not you).

focusedfire wrote:While the Sisters look beautiful, the armour does not match the fluff. It roughly looks equivalent to Banshee or Fire Warrior armor. Due to this I voted 4+.

What something is made of is more important then it's look. Adamantine and Ceramite are what justify the 3+ save...

Also, I don't think the Sisters models are beautiful.

They certainly are on the low end of Jes Goodwin's work...

Why are we using Marine armor as the standard for 3+? Lets use a crisis suit instead. It's obviously bigger and bulkier, so must represent the top of the 3+ range. Hell, next to a crisis suit, space marine armor maybe looks like it grants a 4+. Maybe.

I've edited some comments to illustrate my point:

"While the Space Marines look beautiful, the armour does not match the fluff. It roughly looks equivalent to Banshee or Fire Warrior armor. Due to this I voted 4+."

"I think it looks like they would get a 4+ save. The armor looks just a tad lighter than a Crisis Suit, plus the fact that marines are not wearing mechanized battle suits that are able to take as much punishment as Crisis Suit."

"I have a really tough time understanding how anyone can think the Marine armor, which is very obviously much smaller than a Crisis suit, confers the same bonuses. The tau look like they're slogging along in a dumpster."

"Anywho, I'm in the camp with them looking like 4+ but being 3+ because there'd be no point in playing them if they were 4+. "

"4+: it's noticeably lighter and less protection than a Crisis suit"

"I voted 4+, simply because it just doesn't look as bulky to me as a Crisis Suit does"

"They are covered in armor but are physically incapable of wearing the layers of protection. If Crisis Suit armor was so light that marines could wear an equivalent, then everyone in the 40K universe should be 3+. "

"Now does their armour look like it grants 3+ Sv? Honestly, not really. Crisis suits grants3+ saves because of the thick plating and the shape of the armour which is designed to deflect projectiles not just to stop them. If you look at Marine armour, we see that the plating isn't clearly as thick"


Hmm...

/thread?

I think /thread

n0t_u wrote:Yes, but goes on to mention that they have to forego the life support and strength enhancing as they don't have the black carapace in the same paragraph.

I'm on your side in this

(emphasis mine)


Wait, so the argument that they're able to tote around 200+ pounds of equipment because of the strength enhancement the armor provides is disproved by their own fluff?

Meh.

Oh! A Barbed Hierodule also has a 3+ save. Well gak, I guess that completely invalidates everyone else's 3+, right? Because if that's what a 3+ save looks like, Space marines, crisis suits, Scorps and Sisters aren't coming anywhere close.

Or a carnifex....3 tons of chiton...

It's all arbitrary to make the game playable (minimally as it turns out).

agnosto wrote:Wait, so the argument that they're able to tote around 200+ pounds of equipment because of the strength enhancement the armor provides is disproved by their own fluff?

Melissia wrote:And what the Sisters armor lacks are the more ADVANCED life support and strength-enhancing systems... not all of them, as some people try and suggest.

Thank you, no.

Melissia wrote:

agnosto wrote:Wait, so the argument that they're able to tote around 200+ pounds of equipment because of the strength enhancement the armor provides is disproved by their own fluff?

Melissia wrote:And what the Sisters armor lacks are the more ADVANCED life support and strength-enhancing systems... not all of them, as some people try and suggest.

Thank you, no.

Last thing I'll say about this because, a) I don't really care because it's just a game and b) It doesn't need to make sense because it's just a game.

The setence you're drawing that from, page 19 of the codex, "It provides the same degree of armoured protection, yet must forego the more advanced life support and strength enhancing abilities used by the Space Marines.."

There are two ways to interpret this sentance. 1) That they have some rudimentary form of life support and strength enhancement. or 2) The life support and strength enhancement systems, in and of themselves, are advanced functions that are provided by access to armor systems provided by the black carapace. You obviously support interpretation 1 and I, interpretation 2. We'll just have to disagree. (not that it matters because, like I've said several times, it doesn't have to make sense, it's just a game)

Well I got a real life example of armours looking diffrent but still offering the same protection. the army has 2 types of armour # 1 IBA it heavy its bulky ok # 2 its the IOTV and this one is lighter then the IBA but offers the same amount of protection the IBA offers. I dont know if this will help its just an example.

Black_Templars97 wrote:Well I got a real life example of armours looking diffrent but still offering the same protection. the army has 2 types of armour # 1 IBA it heavy its bulky ok # 2 its the IOTV and this one is lighter then the IBA but offers the same amount of protection the IBA offers. I dont know if this will help its just an example.

Not true, the fully kitted IOTV weighs 30-35 lbs and the fully kitted IBA weighs 33 lbs. So weight is a non-comparison. I'll give you the bulky factor and the fact that the IOTV is much easier to don/shed.

I voted 3+.

Thing is, the armour doesn't have to be the same size for it to give the same protection. Therefore you could easily say that SoB power armour is just a scaled-down version of SM power armour, and offers the same protection due to the materials it's made of.

Besides, Marines are themselves insanely bulky...

You sure cuz I wore that IBA all the way through premobe and as soon as I got the IOTV it was so much lighter, the side plate are built in to the IOTV and so is the neck and yoke guard.

He said the LARGEST Improved Outer Tactical Vest was heavier. That is, basically the heaviest variant of the IOTV.

The medium IOTV weighs 3.6 pounds less than the medium OTV.