New FW Space Marine stuff up

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**Melissia**

Eh, I misread your post. I disagree regardless (arguing about the fluff isn't pointless to me at least, I enjoy it).

**cadbren**

whitedragon wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:That's why a lot of the fluff arguements are just pointless, if I want an army of 5' tall marines a head shorter than Cadians (which my RT plastics are) then so be it.

Melissia wrote:Err, what? Fluff discussions aren't silly. Fluff discussions based off of the models are silly. Neither the size of the models nor the size of the battlefield are directly representative of anything in the fluff.

Talk about splitting hairs? How are the models and fluff not related? They are all 40k any way you slice it. GW can make the fluff and models whatever they want, hence, Fluff arguments are pointless.

Marine tank crew cannot actually fit through the hatches, at least not with those shoulder pads on. Rhinos and Land Raiders are too small to fit the marines they are supposed to hold, Tau and Eldar vehicles aren't much better. This means that GW produces models that are not meant to be accurate portrayals of the "real" thing just based on them, the same way ranges of weapons are massively reduced so that the game can take place on a table instead of requiring something like a tennis court or larger to play on.
The models and the fluff are quite different.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

whitedragon wrote:
Melissia wrote:You may not care for it, but the fluff is sole reason 40k doesn't suck for me.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that I didn't care for the fluff.

You said that fluff arguments are pointless which suggests that you don't care enough about the fluff to want to discuss it.

**AgeOfEgos**

cadbren wrote:

Marine tank crew cannot actually fit through the hatches, at least not with those shoulder pads on. Rhinos and Land Raiders are too small to fit the marines they are supposed to hold, Tau and Eldar vehicles aren't much better. This means that GW produces models that are not meant to be accurate portrayals of the "real" thing just based on them, the same way ranges of weapons are massively reduced so that the game can take place on a table instead of requiring something like a tennis court or larger to play on.
The models and the fluff are quite different.

While different, they certainly aren't mutually exclusive. Land Raiders are bigger than Rhinos, Baneblades are bigger than Land Raiders, Eldar are more lithe than Marines, etc. Cadian/SOB throw off scale regarding Marines, however if you purchase any FW Krieg you get the sense of scale for a Marine back. Some of their sculptors simply misproportion their miniatures.

**Melissia**

No they don't. It's called "heroic scale". The miniatures are not scaled to be realistic, they're scaled to look cool.

**AgeOfEgos**

Was this a reply to my post? I ask, as I didn't mention nor attempt to point out that GW adheres to a strict 28mm scale...as I think it's rather clear they do not.

Melissia wrote:No they don't. It's called "heroic scale". The miniatures are not scaled to be realistic, they're scaled to look cool.

**Melissia**

Then you should think of it as more corroborating with your post, saying that the lack of scale is intentional.

**AgeOfEgos**

I wouldn't go as far to say lack of scale is intentional, as I pointed out previously GW honors 'fluff' scale in various ways throughout their line. Else an Eldar would be as bulky as a Marine, a Baneblade the size of a Land Raider, etc.

Melissia wrote:Then you should think of it as more corroborating with your post, saying that the lack of scale is intentional.

**Melissia**

That's not scale, that's just aesthetics.

**AgeOfEgos**

...and that's just semantics.....

Unless you are seriously arguing that the entire reason GW made their Land Raider larger than a Marine was based on taste and had nothing to do with the background from which it came.

Melissia wrote:That's not scale, that's just aesthetics.

**Melissia**

Actually, I was intending to respond to your Eldar comment. The reason Eldar appear slimmer is aesthetics, it's still not really accurate to fluff size however. The reason for this being that it's in "heroic scale", and they want all infantry miniatures to be roughly the same size, and all standard transports to be roughly the same size, and all large vehicles to be roughly the same size, and so on and so forth. Even if they aren't actually that size in the fluff. It makes things consistent for the game, and for production, and so on. A 6+ feet tall human sitting in a Marine rhino would have their legs dangling below them and they'd not be able to reach the ceiling, for example.

Heroic scale isn't meant to be accurate to scale, which is my entire point... yes, there's some very rough scale comparisons, but the models are just there to look pretty so people will buy more of them, not to be representative of the fluff.

**AgeOfEgos**

You're evading my point. I've made no assertion that GW correctly scales their miniatures in 28mm scale, in fact I've stated the opposite previously.

My initial post stated that while scale is certainly inconsistent, fluff does tend to drive how figures scale in comparison to other figures....else they would all have the same anatomical structure...and all vehicles would be the same size.

Eldar are described as more lithe than Marines in every description I've ever read on them.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eldar

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eldar

So fluff and scale certainly interact.....

Melissia wrote:Actually, I was intending to respond to your Eldar comment. The reason Eldar appear slimmer is aesthetics, it's still not really accurate to fluff size however. The reason for this being that it's in "heroic scale", and they want all infantry miniatures to be roughly the same size, and all standard transports to be roughly the same size, and all large vehicles to be roughly the same size, and so on and so forth. Even if they aren't actually that size in the fluff. It makes things consistent for the game, and for production, and so on.

**sonofruss**

This thread is for the discussion of cool Forge World Resin Models not fluff or semantics take it somewhere else please.
I love the marines iffy on the Ram of Kid_Kyoto's

**Padre**

Hmmm, I thought this post was about the Caestus and armour releases....

Personally, I'm extremely "iffy" about Kid's post......urgggh.

Padre^.

**BrookM**

It sounds to me that Kid has another, more secret, creative hobby.

**Heliodore**

I for one love the retro missile launcher and special weapons. The Caestus is better than I'd thought it would be. I'll ask for it for Christmas with that price however. So, what does a Shark-class Boarding Torpedo look like?

**aka_mythos**

Like a torpedo? Knowing the imperium aesthetic, an elongated hexagon.

**Wolf**

Nooo ! Not another fluff debate from Melissia !

I think the MK III models look ok, but they don't tickle my fancy, personally I find them to be pretty ugly but I appreciate the interest in them

The assault vehicle thing, looks pretty awesome actually, I now have a good idea of the kind of vehicles they could possibly use in BFG (but bigger).

**cadbren**

Aren't they pretty much converted munitions?

**sonofruss**

I have heard the torpedo's described as moles in space

**warboss**

i wonder if they'll get around to the terminators. i'm thinking the BA actually make a decent codex for preheresy stuff.

**Orinoco**

MajorTom11 wrote:As much as I love PH stuff and am thrilled they are finally getting to it, at the same time I wish they would turn their eyes forward as well into the unknown.

As an adult, I have trouble enjoying imperial fluff in modern 40k anymore as it requires you to believe a society so massive and advanced could possibly function with such backwards and anti-innovative policies. Every option for technological evolution is cut off through fluff... study advanced alien tech? nope it's dirty heresy. Study our own tech? Nope it's heresy against the tooth fairies that live in my toaster. As I get older and learn more about politics, history and technology, I have a very hard time believing a society of that size, with those policies, could last more than a few hundred years, never mind 10000.

I get that this allows an excuse for game balance etc, but honestly, it would be really nice to see a completely new unit. It would be nice to read some fluff about a discovery or a change. The fluff of the Imperium is that is a stagnant, sorry place, but after 20+ years, the fluff itself is getting a bit stagnant too lol.

er... so ya, all that to say I want to see a NEW armor type as well as old ones lol. There was concept art a few years back of devastators and a few marines that looked amazing, but it was a little different and techier than the norm and never came to fruition. That is the kind of stuff I would love to see if some of you know to what I am referring.

We see new things occasionally, new types of land raider, the dark angel dreads that have the mortis name (two ranged weapons of the same either side) and get random stuff from FW like this lander. And then there is the new storm raven, libby dreadnought etc.

**Kanluwen**

Not a lander, boarding craft. Subtle difference, just like the Dreadclaw isn't a Drop Pod--but an Assault Craft designed for a role just like this boarding craft.

Both are designed to smash into a ship, cut their way in and then disgorge their troops.

**Tyras**

I like the marines and the weapon set. The Caestus doesn't really appeal to me though. No Sir, I don't like it.

**Melissia**

The Imperium DOES innovate occasionally. It's just a lot slower than in modern times. And it has to go through much more rigorous testing unless it's through a weird circumstance.

**cadbren**

Kanluwen wrote:Not a lander, boarding craft. Subtle difference, just like the Dreadclaw isn't a Drop Pod--but an Assault Craft designed for a role just like this boarding craft.

Both are designed to smash into a ship, cut their way in and then disgorge their troops.

The Caestus is designed to smash through waves crashing onto a beach on a planet surface, it would crumple or bounce off an armour plated warship. The front of it is simply not designed to pierce through a solid object. It's the worse design for a marine model I've ever seen given what it is supposed to do.

**terribletrygon**

Notice the giant meltaguns. I think they might help get into warships, but that's just me.

**aka_mythos**

Yeah, I think its safe to assume that it works under the same principle as certain types of armor penetrating warheads... where a jet of plasma creates warms the material and creates an initial weak point before the kinetic penetrator forces its way through. The meltaguns effectively take the place of the plasma jet.

**AgeOfEgos**

Probably right, as the Dreadclaws have built in meltas as well and they were preheresy ship boarding craft.

terribletrygon wrote:Notice the giant meltaguns. I think they might help get into warships, but that's just me.

**Pizzathehutt**

I cannot wait to use some of that iron armor for death guard conversions!

**aka_mythos**

...mmmm preheresy deathguard. I'm so tempted.