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Devourer Gants were mentioned a few times. But you are right, for a 100% increase in cost you get a 300% increase in firepower and a 50% increase in range. They are fantastic.

Oh, if you have other targets for people Dev gants are just the bees knees But I'm biased as I have loved them since 4th edition

Why is there no discussion on the Doom of Malantai? Curious as to why everyone left him out.

Michaetruck wrote:Why is there no discussion on the Doom of Malantai? Curious as to why everyone left him out.

In a pod, it is rather nice.

I used it at 'Ard Boys to deal with the masses my big bugs would get overwhelmed by. It did really well.

For 130 points I find it to be a useful one shot wonder (ok, 2 shot. But you know what I mean).
If it lives for a second Tyranid turn it has never failed to get 200+points worth of models killed for me.


Even walking it is decent--especially in an army with a lot of t6 wounds (I had ~39 at 1850) as people are disinclined to "waste" high strength shots on DoM, especially if they do not see it fielded often/ever. If they do shoot at it with s8+ it is one of the few models that gets a save, which makes it survivable enough for 90 points.

The main problem (other than the Tyranid FAQ) with Doom is the predominance of mech, and its compitition for Elite slots.

The ap1 blast is nice and all, but it is very rare that you would really want to shoot it at a vehicle--even at s10.
Vehicle hit (only) = no wounds = no Absorb Life.
Also, Psychic Test + To Hit + To Wound(/Vehicle damage roll) = annoying numbers of rolls, especially with bs3.
And that is not counting how annoying hoods can be.

All that said, I have one modeled and field it regularly and find that it is worth it almost every time (I did once have 7 units in range of its Spirit Leech and every single one made its LD check).

kirsanth wrote:

Michaetruck wrote:Why is there no discussion on the Doom of Malantai? Curious as to why everyone left him out.

In a pod, it is rather nice.

I used it at 'Ard Boys to deal with the masses my big bugs would get overwhelmed by. It did really well.

For 130 points I find it to be a useful one shot wonder (ok, 2 shot. But you know what I mean).
If it lives for a second Tyranid turn it has never failed to get 200+points worth of models killed for me.


Even walking it is decent--especially in an army with a lot of t6 wounds (I had ~39 at 1850) as people are disinclined to "waste" high strength shots on DoM, especially if they do not see it fielded often/ever. If they do shoot at it with s8+ it is one of the few models that gets a save, which makes it survivable enough for 90 points.

The main problem (other than the Tyranid FAQ) with Doom is the predominance of mech, and its compitition for Elite slots.

The ap1 blast is nice and all, but it is very rare that you would really want to shoot it at a vehicle--even at s10.
Vehicle hit (only) = no wounds = no Absorb Life.
Also, Psychic Test + To Hit + To Wound(/Vehicle damage roll) = annoying numbers of rolls, especially with bs3.
And that is not counting how annoying hoods can be.

All that said, I have one modeled and field it regularly and find that it is worth it almost every time (I did once have 7 units in range of its Spirit Leech and every single one made its LD check).

Very nice, thanks for the info - I had never considered the vehicle problem. I primarily play against SM and Orks, and both armies never really fielded a total mech force. It's usually a horde clash.

I'm also curious as to why hormagaunts get thrown under the bus so soon in discussion, they seem highly effective as screens and speedy lockdown threats. Are gargs really that much better?

Michaetruck wrote:Are gargs really that much better?

They are cheaper, move farther, screen better, and can shoot.
Hormagaunts get an extra attack and reroll 1s to-hit. Without Beast they do not charge 12" but can go up stairs. The running thing is nice, but they still cannot guarantee a 18" threat.

Also, hormagaunts take up the same slot as genestealers (similar role, but can outflank and rend), termagants (which unlock tervigon troops), and tervigons.

So they are not bad, but have much heavier compitition for their slot than they used to.

Gargs also have the possibility to provide cover to some MC's depending on range and other factors. The gargs just provide more options to the player, and the auto wound on 6's to hit is fun in CC as well.

Someones earlier comment about Raveners being similar to genestealers got me thinking, the results of which I will provide to you now.

I will compre Genestealers with scything talons to raveners with rending claws, as these are most similar in abilities. The Ravener costs slightly more than 2 of these genestealers. Compared:

Genestealers lead by a point of WS and I. These are both valuable abilities, but against "average" enemies, are mostly overkill, and the I boost is negated by cover.

In terms of Durability, Raveners are 50% more durable against small-arms fire. Fewer models also sees an increase in durability vs low S blast weapons. Raveners are, however, susceptable to ID.

In terms of Manouverability and striking power, both posses fleet, move through cover and a special deployment rule. Raveners are also Beasts. The two are roughly equal in terms of when they arrive in the assault if deployed on the field, but Raveners can hang back out of rapid fire range and still assault, and also have better assault range in subsequant turns.

Genestealers major advantage is their independant, scoring nature. Unlike Raveners, they do not need Synapse, and have a much better Ld. They are also scoring. These make Genestelers much more than a simple weapon, and much easier to control.

Finaly, the upgrades they can take. Genestealers can take a number of upgrades that can boost their close combat might, while Raveners can take ranged Weapons. This makes Raveners slightly more Flexabe.

kirsanth wrote:Also, hormagaunts take up the same slot as genestealers (similar role, but can outflank and rend), termagants (which unlock tervigon troops), and tervigons.
So they are not bad, but have much heavier compitition for their slot than they used to.

I would use toxic hormagaunts in a swarm list, otherwise I go with Tervigons and Genestealers. When you factor in the shooting Gargoyles are about as effective as Hormaguants on the charge.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:Someones earlier comment about Raveners being similar to genestealers got me thinking, the results of which I will provide to you now.

It is interesting to see how different people view different units. Raveners and Genestealers fill a very similar role for me. That of delivering rending attacks into the back field quickly. I prefer stealers because -
They can operate independently; One Melta/Fist is not going to take out 15-20% of the squad; Outflank/Infiltrate usually better than 12" charge; they score.
I also find that extra point of initiative helpful for sweeping advances.

bonesword lashwhip warriors are really really underrated.
A large squad sitting on an objective is really difficult to uproot. The lashwhips making units initiative 1 is huge.

Spending 45 points a model is not a good option for camping an objective though. S8 just blows them away. Gaunts are a better choice. Lurk means they are made to camp.

Reecius wrote:Devourer Gants were mentioned a few times. But you are right, for a 100% increase in cost you get a 300% increase in firepower and a 50% increase in range. They are fantastic.

Man, I considered Devourer gaunts, but I couldn't get over spending 200+ points on termagants, even if their gun is awesome.

Something I had previously disregarded also came up recently. I took part in an RTT 1k tournament and a nid player won. His list wasn't particularly competitive but he ran it well. It also helped that in 1 particular game the Mech IG player couldn't hit or wound anything with his twin linked lascannons and plasmaguns to save his life.

But I digress. This particular player was using venomthropes. 2 of them. Behind 2 trygons. Now I have never used them but after looking at what they did for the nid player I was impressed. Does anyone have any success stories or comments on how to use them effectively? I can see in an MC heavy list they can be very useful for mitigating damage and a brood of 3 really helps out if in a spod and deepstriking next to 2/3 deepstriking tryons.

Yup. Plus a Prime with Regenerate can catch Krak Missiles for them, if someone wants to try and take them out.

Lukus83 wrote:Something I had previously disregarded also came up recently. I took part in an RTT 1k tournament and a nid player won. His list wasn't particularly competitive but he ran it well. It also helped that in 1 particular game the Mech IG player couldn't hit or wound anything with his twin linked lascannons and plasmaguns to save his life.

But I digress. This particular player was using venomthropes. 2 of them. Behind 2 trygons. Now I have never used them but after looking at what they did for the nid player I was impressed. Does anyone have any success stories or comments on how to use them effectively? I can see in an MC heavy list they can be very useful for mitigating damage and a brood of 3 really helps out if in a spod and deepstriking next to 2/3 deepstriking tryons.

I've tried it at 2k points, against stupid opponents it works well. Against smart opponents, the venomthropes buy the farm t1.

I've tried it at 2k points, against stupid opponents it works well. Against smart opponents, the venomthropes buy the farm t1.

I dunno, considering you could have lost a trygon for the same amount of shooting, it doesn't seem too bad. That one turn your trygon survives could be pretty damn important.

Only thing really holding me back from trying them out is losing an elite slot to them.

Most definately what Winterman said.

However, at lower points games I think they are a solid choice and your points for using the elites slot is limited by said points values. By filling out with a lower cost unit you aren't really doing anything wrong, especially if you then max out your heavy support slot with 3 trygons. Also remember that apart from IG other armies will have trouble bringing a large amount of mech to the table.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops didn't fill out that last sentence properly...

Also remember that apart from IG other armies will have trouble bringing a large amount of mech to the table meaning zoanthropes and hive guard aren't as necessary.

If you're doing the monster list, people do NOT shoot at your Tyranid warriors. Also, tyranid warriors with bonesword need a dedicated unit to uproot them. I can smack gaunts around with a basic chaos squad on the charge. Gaunts are good...if they get ignored.

I've seen berserkers charge bonesword lashwhip warriors and get evaporated before they get to strike.

Hmmm, any sensible player would just lob a pie plate at them. Objective scoured. Pie plates were made for multi-wound T4 models. They do nothing of note to Big beasties.

Sorry, but that's just the way I see it.

Max coherency, and Go to-Ground. Only army of note brings pieplates en-masse. Doing so makes it a glass cannon (less chimeras for objective-taking/moveblocking/etc).

Besides, Nidzilla Target Priority is "SHOOT ZE VENDETTAS!" When they're pulled, the enemy *has* to divert firepower from your Warriors.

What is the consensus of how the DE with their masses of poison and anti vehicle power level weapons will affect the metagame/list strategy for your average bug player?

Parasite of M.

Ran him the first time last Friday. He was attached to 3 RC, ST, AG warriors. Surprisingly was the total awesome sauce. speed was good, kept synapse in a mobile location. Able to support other fast units, such as raveners, gargolyes, homogaunts, trygons and genestealers with ease.

His ripper creating ability would be a liability in a kill point game however in an objective game was able to place the rippers preventing the Parasite from being assaulted in return, as well as blocking units from going after objectives.

Weakness in the list I ran was the Prime I had for my other HQ was stuck in the back with the tryanofexes and his unit of Devagaunts. Granted they secured an objective for the win, but I would of liked more.

What is the consensus of how the DE with their masses of poison and anti vehicle power level weapons will affect the metagame/list strategy for your average bug player?

I'm a bit concerned but not as much now that it is confirmed the 6" rule for shooting from a vehicle was not removed for DE (unless there's a rule or gear I missed). I mean a dual splinter cannon venom is probably the cheapest poison shooter in the list (especially for the range and mobility) and it will cause 4 wounds on average -- so 1.33 failed saves on our MCs? I dunno, I am still more worried about ML spam at the moment.

I'm also considering sprinkling some venom cannons into my lists for next year. S9 blast that pens is pretty brutal on raider/venom spam. Also it will be hard to rely on hive guard since night sheilds shut them down pretty hard (18" range is just not acceptable against fast vehicles).

Really really early though and the book is dense -- there's alot to take in as both a nid player and a DE player.

Had a little outing with 2 tyranid primes and attached 2 carnifexes yesterday. The results were pleasing. They managed to single handedly rip apart an IG blob, a CCS, a PCS, a unit of ogryns, a penal legion and take my opponents objective. And all of that after being repeatedly shot (3 turns) with 3 lascannons from the blob. Not bad for 6 turns work. Granted the list I was facing wasn't tuned but the amount of firepower they absorbed was staggering.

I thoroughly recommend this unit.

Told ya

It's not a cheap unit but it hits like a mac track and it's pretty resilient with cover, wound allocation, and FnP. Glad you enjoyed it Lukus.

I played the shooty version of the carni+2prime unit this weekend for the first time (just got another prime built and painted) and it worked pretty well also.

Highlight was forcing a moral check from shooting on a 4 man TWC + Twolf, in which they failed and fell off the table, then they took a charge from a similar unit the next turn and although didn't survive that encounter (primes both failed to hit first round and barely did anything the next) the carnies still took a few with em and my trygon came in for the counter charge and finished the job.

I'd like to try the scytal version as well. I can see where those rerolls would make them brutal as hell.

I have tried the tyranid prime attached to a carnifex thing and this weekend I think I will try with 2 of each and see how that goes.

Slick wrote:What is the consensus of how the DE with their masses of poison and anti vehicle power level weapons will affect the metagame/list strategy for your average bug player?

It means DE units will butt rape TMC's.

The DE look like they will shake up the meta a lot. But honestly, DE have always been good at killing Bugs.

I think the solution to this, if DE are popular at tournaments, will be to run a mix of little bug horde and big bugs. However, if someone has found a killer list that works against all the other armies, they should just stick with it unless the tournaments become saturated with DE.

Okay, purusing Warseer (which made my brain hurt), I'm reading that Flyrants are overpriced because of 60pt wings. Is this general consensus? I mean, the Tyrant, by default, gets 2 of 4 psychic powers, some of which are downright nasty, is T6, W4 and gets a good save. Its default weapons both bring enemies in melee down to I1, also potentially cause instant death and are S6, armour ignoring to boot. This is the sort of thing other armies commanders pay for, and sometimes never reach (like the high toughness).

The downside to the Tyrant are its size, and the short range of its psychic powers and available weapons. Wings mitigate the short range aspect, and help it get into melee faster, and decent terrain help it out with cover, not to mention providing a screen of gargoyles.

I really don't see the problem with 60 points for wings, but I might be missing something.

I don't care much for Tyrants in general as I don't like paying that much for something with no invul save, but that is just me. I know a lot of guys here use them and the Swarm Lord to great effect.

As for the wings being overpriced? Depends on how you use him really. I don't think I would take him any other way. Either with wing or the swarm lord, IMO. The mobility and option to deep strike makes him very versatile.

And yeah, Warseer is not known for having the best tactics advice.