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Necroshea wrote:So...wait. From what I understand, you told him about all the crap he was pulling, and he basically told you he doesn't give a flying @#$& about what you have to say and given the chance he would do it all again, playing noobs, lying about skill level, stalling the game. In response to this he says he did what he did because his army is underpowered, and you...forgave him because of this?

I could be wrong in understanding what you wrote, and I apologize if this is the case, but it sounds like there was no progress in fixing things. He knows you people don't like him, but he doesn't really care.

Agree. What the heck?

If he's being an unsportsmanlike , ask him to leave. If not, kick him out of the league or refuse to play him.

biccat wrote:

Necroshea wrote:So...wait. From what I understand, you told him about all the crap he was pulling, and he basically told you he doesn't give a flying @#$& about what you have to say and given the chance he would do it all again, playing noobs, lying about skill level, stalling the game. In response to this he says he did what he did because his army is underpowered, and you...forgave him because of this?

I could be wrong in understanding what you wrote, and I apologize if this is the case, but it sounds like there was no progress in fixing things. He knows you people don't like him, but he doesn't really care.

Agree. What the heck?

If he's being an unsportsmanlike , ask him to leave. If not, kick him out of the league or refuse to play him.

I didn't forgive him, in the sense that I still think his conduct was unjustified, particularly the slow play. I'm certainly not going to sit around festering at him forever, particularly not now that I've made my point. I'm not very old, but I have learned that I am not capable of fixing people. I gave Ogre Boy a fair chance to see it my way. He does not. This is unfortunate but not devastating.

I hope that makes things clearer. I do not, repeat, do NOT endorse any of the things that caused the grievance that's the topic of this thread. However, in terms of 1) using my game against him to express my displeasure and 2) following it up with a conversation about it, I accomplished the most I could hope to do toward resolving it. If it remains unresolved despite my best efforts, then it's up to someone else to try. Certainly my desire to bring about his personal comeuppance has gone a long way toward being satisfied.

Next time, I'll just ruin him again

Was the store owners notified of his behavior? I mean a tourny is a tourny, but I'm sure your FLGS doesn't foster that sort of behavior, and wouldn't be above just giving him his money back (if he paid) and booting him.

If it seems like I'm out for blood, I guess it's because I sort of am. It's been stated in this forum that aggressively responding to gakkers like that does nothing, and eye for an eye does not work. Throughout my entire life, I have found that it does. If someone thinks they can get away with something, and nobody does anything about it, they continue. If someone tries to say, pick on someone at school, and that person responds with a fist and the offender experiencing the taste of dirt and blood, it stops there, and he usually goes on to see if he can find weaker fare. Or the victim who gave him a thrashing could see it for what it is, and after said thrashing explain the logic behind it, and the two could possibly become friends and the once gakker might learn that things like that don't fly. This kind of situation does happen, and I've seen it.

Ya know, this entire thread + battle report has made me realize what this is. It's mob mentality. Everyone has joined the side of Malleus against this unknown person referred to as ogre boy. Has anyone taken a gander at the Bat Rep? Ogre Boy doesn't know how to play ogres, his list is proof. Maybe he wasn't lying about his skill level. We don't know this person, we weren't there. Yet, many in this thread have suggested seriously harming this unknown person just because of say so. Heck Malleus even got reinvited to play against him at higher points despite the wailing he received. I think a little less high horsing may be appropriate.

Can someone post a link to the Battle Report?

Surtur wrote:Ya know, this entire thread + battle report has made me realize what this is. It's mob mentality. Everyone has joined the side of Malleus against this unknown person referred to as ogre boy. Has anyone taken a gander at the Bat Rep? Ogre Boy doesn't know how to play ogres, his list is proof. Maybe he wasn't lying about his skill level. We don't know this person, we weren't there. Yet, many in this thread have suggested seriously harming this unknown person just because of say so. Heck Malleus even got reinvited to play against him at higher points despite the wailing he received. I think a little less high horsing may be appropriate.

That's a pretty fantastic point, Surtur.

While I'm not calling Malleus a liar/saying this didn't happen, But I think that we should maybe back off a little bit; there's only so much we can say about an event we didn't see/hear/experience firsthand.

This is the point I was trying to make with my after-battle post. The incidents I described happened as described, and they were not ok. They made me want to destroy Ogre Boy on the table (I shall repeat, on the table), and I stand by that. So I went and did it.

I don't feel bad about that, but I equally don't feel bad that I didn't get him thrown out of the league or cut his throat while he slept, or whatever.

I've appreciate everybody's interest in this story, but I think Surtur has a point about the degree of rage that happened (possibly contributed to by me, which I regret if so). In the final analysis, this is a game we play with dolls and dice, and while abusive conduct shouldn't be simply ignored on that basis, it should be dealt with in context, and in proportion. I hope we all agree on that (though we may disagree on what "in proportion" means).

Malleus, I respect that you seemed level headed about this whole thing after the game and talked to him about his behaviors and such. I have a problem with the comments that suggested smashing his models, beating him in the parking lot and castrating him.

Surtur wrote:Malleus, I respect that you seemed level headed about this whole thing after the game and talked to him about his behaviors and such. I have a problem with the comments that suggested smashing his models, beating him in the parking lot and castrating him.

plus that last one's just gross; I don't think any revenge is worth touching someone's balls.

plus that last one's just gross; I don't think any revenge is worth touching someone's balls.

Here Here.
I half agree with whats been done. The correct method for dealing with these issues is to sit them down, tell them the way of the world, and hope they change their ways. Alas, sometimes this is not so, and we have to accept the fact that some people in this world are just irrevocably bad inside, and that no amount of talking will shift their position. These people react better to a hammer to the head (metaphorically of course ) and need to have sense beaten into them. I dont like this method, but its just how things work (much like gravity, damn it to physics hell)

Been reading this with interest, Pleased to see you spoke to him, but personaly I think he should have been booted from the tournament simply on the cheating rule. In any game it's not acceptable imo. Been subjected to it twice personaly in tournaments and a couple of friends. These weren't important with big sparkly prizes, but still it cost decent people a shot at the next round. Pleased to say the cheaters got their asses handed to them the next round when word got round what they pulled.
The guy really needs to see that especially against new people he did wrong. He would do the same again? Pathetic, he might want to powergame and build a powerful list, sure go for it. But theres a big difference between that and cheating. Glad to see he lost though, what goes around comes around.

Surtur wrote: Has anyone taken a gander at the Bat Rep? Ogre Boy doesn't know how to play ogres, his list is proof. Maybe he wasn't lying about his skill level.

This.
As much as i was with everyone when i started reading the thread (all of 30 mins ago ) after reading the bat rep, this guy doesnt really know what hes doing by the looks of things.
However, this does in no way allow for the fact that he is a douche who played like a douche and deserved to be ppulled up on it.
@Malleus, im very glad you beat him (as he deserved) and that you had a chat with him afterwards. Im not surprised in the least that he doesnt apologise for what he did, he seems like that sort of person unfortunately, but at least you tried. Good on you man

Sure, the nature of the thread was generally negative towards Ogre Boy, but the real problem here, IMHO, is that if he was somehow causing trouble or somesuch in the tournament setting, he should really just be made aware of it and/or kicked out. I mean, even if his list is crap, and even if he really somehow doesn't mean harm, if his attitude just isn't in the spirit of the tournament he really shouldn't be there. Regardless of who he is as a person, if he's causing trouble in the tournament or with the players in the tournament he should be out...

I will agree his list is utter crap. Hunters? Really? WS 10 Tyrant? Meh

@ Malleus.
Can you truly blame people for being negative after describing him as the type of person who cheats on noobs. Some crimes just attract hate.

Okay, I think I'll jump back into the thick of things.

HoverBoy's right; some things seem more unforgivable than others. And that's really quite a shame. There are certainly levels of suffering (and jerk-ness), but how anyone is supposed to measure them down to the line is beyond me.

If I may (I may), I think I can offer a little perspective on this guy's mindset:

Competitve games are psychological. I mean, in a tournament setting, if your opponent, say, charges a unit you don't care about, exposing his flank to something meatier, do you advise otherwise?
Well, what if he forgets to declare a charge?
Clearly misreads the tape measurer and doesn't cast his Uber Spell?

See what I mean? It's a sort of slippery slope. I try not to point out things like the first example; it's a tactical game, after all. But the other two are silly mistakes that anyone could make on a bad day. Still...they, too, are part of the game.

And then you get into the real mind-games. Where does reasonable competitive spirit end and being a jerk, not in the game, but in general, begin? Poker is a great example where the line is pretty damn grey. Magic: the Gathering (...fantasy poker) is another.
So, I would guess that this guy seems to think that this sort of thing (lying about his experience level or whatever) is okay, since it's a competition.

Really, it's just an extreme example of a spectrum we all know. Some people like Power Scrolls with their Dreaded 13th, and the Cupped Hand with their Slann Mage Priest, or Teclis...at all. Other people say that those things are jerk moves, and that you shouldn't sacrifice fun for victory.

It's a hard line to draw. I mean, we can all agree that this guy stepped over that line, but by how much?

I am 100% positive that this guy or any guy can be changed with words. But they have to be the right ones. And that takes a great deal of patience, understanding, and knowledge. Human philosophy, psychology, and communication just ain't there yet.

Don't worry, though. We'll get there.

Okay.