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edit, reatard moment.

Stupid question: What if Ogre Boy does read this thread and switches his list to compensate? You have a back-up plan? Unless you can build a list that can beatdown Ogres regardless of what he takes then you should write several lists to make sure.

Not a stupid question, but I'm not concerned. I'm pretty sure the hardest ogre list ever would lose to the kind of list I'm envisioning, and lose hard. But if he beats me, then he does. I don't have a whole bunch of ego tied up in this. I generally lose more than I win, and while I don't love losing, there's much more important things in life than plastic dolls on a tabletop.

... or even metal dolls on a tabletop, though that's a closer call

There isn't much varity in the Ogre book.

pretty much the only variation in the book is with Character loadout and the combination of Leadbeltchers, scrappies, gorgers, and giants.

the other option is massive units of Ogres vs many units of 6ish ogres.

I'm taking you down Empire Boy.

Bweeep, Bweeep, Bweeep.

the jig is up.



My reccomendation is Triple Hellblaster.

and quit picking on the newbies.

Seems 'Ogreboy' Travels quite a ways to play in the league... maybe his attitude is due to jetlag?

Lordhat wrote:Seems 'Ogreboy' Travels quite a ways to play in the league... maybe his attitude is due to jetlag?

QFT

Oh Jeez, here he comes.

I know, I'll hide behind Warpsolution! his ethics will surely get me out of this mess!

that can't be the same guy unless the country flags are really screwed up.

Australia and the US are far enough apart we can't really say your close to the border like what happens with Canada.

This thread is Epic, I can't wait for the battle report.

I would take 2-3 mortars just for the bullstar unit, there is nothing like the face of an opponent as he watches his 700+ unit get eaten by 150+ points.

The Grundel wrote:Beat him...




...up in the parking lot.

Pael wrote:This thread is Epic, I can't wait for the battle report.

I would take 2-3 mortars just for the bullstar unit, there is nothing like the face of an opponent as he watches his 700+ unit get eaten by 150+ points.

are these the same morters that are Str3 and as such will be needing 5s to wound except under the template where it will 2+ and has a 1/3 chance of killing an ogre?

Morters are scary to regular T3 infantry, not T4, 3 wound, infantry that could potentially be even tougher.

Squash wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:No one is ever set straight by a good beatdown. No bully in the history of humanity has been smacked around and decided to become a prophet of love. People getting smacked around is what makes people bullies (or at least one of the things). That's why they call it a cycle. Not because a kid gets abused and gets on his bi-cycle to preach tolerance.

Germany and Japan? Now two of the most pacifistic countries in the world?

Forgetting that war that came before it? WWI led to WWII. Our smackdown of bully Germany resulted in the single biggest loss of civilian life in the history of the planet. Good example! But you can't remotely call them pacifistic since there isn't much going on. It's not like Europe is at war with each other like they had been on and off over the prior millenia. That had to do with the EU and economic opportunities, not killing people. Everyone was an aggressor at some point in Europe. Japan gets pissy about islands with China and such and still visits its war shrines that irks the Chinese to no end. And they do actually have a military. But they were invaded and their constution was forcibly changed. If the equivalent could have been done without dropping atomic bombs and killing tens of millions fire bombing, you better believe it would have been done.

And obviously that opportunity exists with this player. Just seems an angry teenage response to an angry teenager.

DukeRustfield wrote:

Squash wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:No one is ever set straight by a good beatdown. No bully in the history of humanity has been smacked around and decided to become a prophet of love. People getting smacked around is what makes people bullies (or at least one of the things). That's why they call it a cycle. Not because a kid gets abused and gets on his bi-cycle to preach tolerance.

Germany and Japan? Now two of the most pacifistic countries in the world?

Forgetting that war that came before it? WWI led to WWII. Our smackdown of bully Germany resulted in the single biggest loss of civilian life in the history of the planet. Good example! But you can't remotely call them pacifistic since there isn't much going on. It's not like Europe is at war with each other like they had been on and off over the prior millenia. That had to do with the EU and economic opportunities, not killing people. Everyone was an aggressor at some point in Europe. Japan gets pissy about islands with China and such and still visits its war shrines that irks the Chinese to no end. And they do actually have a military. But they were invaded and their constution was forcibly changed. If the equivalent could have been done without dropping atomic bombs and killing tens of millions fire bombing, you better believe it would have been done.

And obviously that opportunity exists with this player. Just seems an angry teenage response to an angry teenager.

Dude have you been to Germany? It's a country of tree huggin hippies and drunks, you cant get more pacifistic then that.

Also keep in mind that Germany and Japan didn't just turn around overnight. There was a very long period of rebuilding, restructuring, and dare I say, rehabilitation after the war, for both of them.

Totally

both countries were so shell shocked they had to be treated for that before they could be made pacifists.


for all intents and purposes, the Germany of today is a different country from the one that existed before WW2. the only thing that survived the war was the people,the country, literally, went through an Exterminatus.

Japanese Fanaticism for their Emperor was extraordinary, but the Emperor's belife in winning the war was shattered by the Atomic bomb. when the Emperor gave up the rest of the country did too. of course it took a few days for them to realize that Hiroshima and Nagazaki were actually gone. if we had dropped the bomb on Tokyo and killed Hirohito they wouldn't have surrendered and the only Japanese People left alive would be Japanese Americans and any PoWs. the Atomic bomb actually saved most of the Japanese populace, and 1 million American troops, from certain death.

In hindsight it was silly for me to bring it up in the first place. I don't want this thread getting closed, so let's just switch back to topic (rules-fu and flagrant game abuses) or sit quietly and wait for an update, because I really want to know what happens.

Grey Templar wrote: if we had dropped the bomb on Tokyo

Point of order: Tokyo was essentially destroyed. Multiple bombing raids hit it, in some circumstances starting firestorms. The descriptions I've read were.....bad.

Edit: Its funny that the thread brings up the reconstruction of Japan and Germany after WWII. I read a book on the reconstruction of each for one of my classes; if anybody really cares, I can try to dig out the titles. Still, the thing that struck me most about Japan is that the vets were treated eerily similar to how Americans treated Vietnam vets. Also, there was a radio station that, three times a day, had a program for a half-hour or hour dedicated to simply re-uniting people separated by the war.

The sobering, and sad, part is that it ran for over 20 years. I want to say 26 years, but I can't remember for a fact.

Squash wrote:In hindsight it was silly for me to bring it up in the first place. I don't want this thread getting closed, so let's just switch back to topic (rules-fu and flagrant game abuses) or sit quietly and wait for an update, because I really want to know what happens.

I'll second this.

Sadly I don't play WHFB...I do want to get into painting some models up though, my D&D friends want better miniatures, and the green knight alone is awesome. Love how this went into Japan and WWII...cause at least for germany that was the "help them when they're down" method everyone's been mentioning rather than kicking his ass...But I for one agree. Having played most of my games against kind people who are into good strategy and the luck of the dice without the loss of cash craps usually has, playing against even one guy who just so utterly crushed me emotionally and physically...I would so love to own him. Sadly tau need serious help against blood angels...and my tactics need a rewrite lol. So yea, post a battle report, and destroy him. at least once. then let him know why you did. maybe he'll learn maybe he wont, but it worked for germany after WWII...as opposed to just hammering him to dust and saying "deal with it" which is what we did after WWI...

Im not sure if its to late but as much as i hate to admit it finding dirty tricks is my specialty. first off one trick for stopping his wizard is a general/wizard/preist(can heal himself) w arabian carpet and aldrads casket, this allows you to trail behind him and capture spells, next i personally love having 3 great cannons because of their bounce and wound d6 rule but you will have to put a unit BEHIND it so gorgers cant getto close, another is kami kazi his strongest character with an engineer w van horstmans speculum even though the engineer will die his close combat monster now sucks. both ideas are quite humiliating if done right "my great warlord can take on ... nadda" also using mounties "3 units of 5 outriders w champ and hochland long rifle although not as great because of only s 4 hit on 3s when picking out characters or standerds and stuff, also one thing that has made people crazy is when units of circle night charge because 1+ natural arm save although i know it would be modified and s 6 on charge, lastlythough i do want to clarify that i do not field these unless i want to get some real payback... mounties and cannons are te exception

tau_etheral wrote:first off one trick for stopping his wizard is a general/wizard/preist(can heal himself) w arabian carpet and aldrads casket, this allows you to trail behind him and capture spells,

Both the Arabyan (seriously GW?) Carpet and Casket of Sorcery are enchanted items, so the same character couldn't have both. I suppose you could just use a pegasus for the flying result. Why would you want to be behind the ogre wizard though? You'll be too far away to cast the pilfered spell on your own troops.

next i personally love having 3 great cannons because of their bounce and wound d6 rule but you will have to put a unit BEHIND it so gorgers cant getto close,

I think the cannons were discussed in this thread. Generally they're great at taking out really expensive monstrous infantry, but against ogres it's hard to make the cannon cost worthwhile, unless he's bringing a giant or maneaters.

another is kami kazi his strongest character with an engineer w van horstmans speculum even though the engineer will die his close combat monster now sucks.

Wait, are you saying the swap change lasts after the challenge is complete? That doesn't sound right. It says that it lasts until the end of the challenge.

also using mounties "3 units of 5 outriders w champ and hochland long rifle although not as great because of only s 4 hit on 3s when picking out characters or standerds and stuff,

Ordinarily I'd back this one up, but against Ogres, their wound count is going to be too tough for snipers. I do think outriders aren't a bad idea though - although the high ogre speed could be an issue for even fast cav.

also one thing that has made people crazy is when units of circle night charge because 1+ natural arm save although i know it would be modified and s 6 on charge,

Again, ordinarily I'm with you here, but with gut magic Strength 6-8 impact hits, 5-7 regular strength attacks, and thunderstomp, it's not a good environment for units that rely on good armour saves. There could be a way to make the knights work in this situation though.

Malleus is now my hero. He used mama bear mode and ref. hockey within a few sentences of each other in the same post. I wish I could provide some kind of help. So I'll just offer this, good luck. Perhaps, also find some buxom street-walker to come in during his match with you. Depending on how bad or good it goes send different signals to the street walker. Make sure she has some venereal diseases. But make sure she is good for it and not some hideous she-beast.

Then, when the getting is good and Ogre Boy is clutching his side in pain, because of the manly beating you are giving him, have the street walker completely demasculinize [sp?] him.

Make him an eunuch.

However, should you lose..

She will sleep with Ogre Boy and he will contract something horrible, something terrible. I'm thinking Warts.

Good luck.

and as far as stealing the Ogre spells,

go ahead. they can, with the exception of Bonecruncher and Braingobbler, only be cast on OGRE units


Ogres are units in the OK book that arn't Gnoblars, Scrappies, Gorgers, Yhetees or Gia-nts.

When your dog poops on the carpet.

You can't punish them for it 2 weeks later.

They have no idea why you're beating them with your shoe yelling "bad dog."

I'm wondering if ogreboy(ogreoldman?) has a short memory.

Game one is TODAY! Watch for a batrep over in that section of the forum.

Ah, so you're finally getting it on with him then?

Erm... I mean playing against him

Report posted in the appropriate forum. I'll post some pictures if I get around to it, but it's not a complex game from the movement point of view. Enjoy!

I'll add to this post to say that a conversation about list cheese and other tactics did ensue after this game was over. I raised it this way: by apologizing for having brought such a rock-hard list and suggesting that I'd be open to an agreement for our second game (still pending) on how to do lists. I mentioned that I had brought the list I had because I was expecting some kind of cheese from him, in light of his list in his games vs. our WoC player.

His response was that he'd do the same thing again, the same way, for the same reason, given an opportunity.

While I still don't agree with his point of view, I think I understand his situation a little bit better. As a player of what you'd have to call an underpowered army, his sense is that he has to run his best list, and have his best day, to ever have a chance at winning in a competitive environment. I continue to believe his response to this problem is unwarranted, but I do recognize the problem; I played empire in 7th, after all. It doesn't resolve all outstanding issues, particularly the slow play, but I have a better idea where he's coming from, and I think he has a better idea where I'm coming from as well. I'll say, to his credit, that he didn't complain about the tank, the speculum, or any of the rest of it. In fact, he asked me to bring the same list again (with an additional 500 points) for our next game. I'm happy to oblige. He's a powergamer, true, but he's not a whiner when others do unto him, and I respect that.

So...wait. From what I understand, you told him about all the crap he was pulling, and he basically told you he doesn't give a flying @#$& about what you have to say and given the chance he would do it all again, playing noobs, lying about skill level, stalling the game. In response to this he says he did what he did because his army is underpowered, and you...forgave him because of this?

I could be wrong in understanding what you wrote, and I apologize if this is the case, but it sounds like there was no progress in fixing things. He knows you people don't like him, but he doesn't really care.

Yeah...hang on a tick...by "do the same thing again, the same way" does that include lying about his skill level and stalling games, or just the part where he brought beardy lists? Hell, I'm sure that he wants you to bring the same list next game so he'll know what you're bringing and ramp up his own cheese accordingly.

This guy sounds like a douche on multiple levels, so I guess I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "I get where he's coming from". If I saw a guy randomly kick a dog, and someone told me "He got bit by a dog when he was a kid, so I know where he's coming from", I'd still want the guy to stop kicking dogs...know what I mean?

Asking him to bring the same list does not mean that it's to take advantage of it.

Back when I was playing 4th edition 40k, I had the most fun playing the 'cheesy' lists. I thought the game was more fun with the more units out there that actually had a bite. If I had the opportunity to play against that sort of list, I would be all for it and I wouldn't have complained if I faced that sort of list. Instead, I would have been happy to. If I encountered someone using a power list, I would encourage them to bring it again so I can bring a similar list that I enjoy playing.