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I see what you're saying, but unlike a television, I can hope to influence it.
While this may all be kosher by technicality, I don't think it would take long for the thread to get locked if, say, "Ogre Boy" was on the forum.

"Some people in this world just need a good beat down..." Naw. I don't think so. Would it set him straight? Maybe. Would it feed that petty, cruel part of yourself, and degrade your morality? Yes. In a really minor way. But every inch you give is one you could have fought to keep. I hope this guy sees what he's done, and I hope that it's done in a way that won't require his teacher to see what they've done at some other point.
People shouldn't have to suffer because you want to satisfy some backwards sense of justice. I've made an ass of myself trying to do just that on more than one occasion. I'm sure plenty of us have. "Poetic justice" belongs in poems, novels, and comics.

As for being petty and cruel that explains all man kind. There are two types of people in this world those who admit they are flawed and those who dont have courage to admit that they are.

Everyone, you can deny if you want, want to see those that have it coming get theirs. I am not so kind and never have been. I have no love for power gamers and I always enjoy when a "better" gamer gives it to them.

As for morality, plainly put, is a state of mind. To some people getting drunk is imoral, while for other's its all good. It's all perception my good man as we all feel differently, and strongly, in our core believes. I, for one, am a firm believer in a eye for an eye, let the punishment fit the crime. Sure its archaic but its how I feel.

I've seen "Poetic Justice" played out in the real world plenty of times, it's called karma my good man, what goes around comes around. Sometimes it takes a person to help karma along as we are all just tools in the large scheme of things anyways.

Ok Im steping off the soap box now.

Warpsolution and others who express similar sentiments: if I talk to him and he gives me some kind of verbal finger (or just doesn't see how there was a problem), would it then be acceptable in your view to deliberately curbstomp him? This is neither a sarcastic nor a loaded question; I'm genuinely curious how you see that contingency.

If he built an army like this, he knows what he's doing. Let's face it the chance he's spent time on DakkaDakka is pretty big too. The time for talk can come after the humiliation.

Malleus: I'd bet that he almost for-sure tells you to eff off. That's the nature of this sort of thing. If this guy was considerate and (I'll jump out on a limb and guess he's not) socially competent, all of this would probably never have happened.

I still wouldn't do it though. I'd keep trying. But that's me; I'm a big Ethics type of person. I've studied it a lot, it interests me, etc. If you're not concerned about this guy's "redemption", I'd suggest you do what you must to keep you and your circle happy. Which means, I guess, deciding if putting up with him or if kicking him out and dealing with the screwy scores is a bigger problem.
Your action against him, ideally, should be to protect your state of happiness, rather than to punish him.

@Squash: I agree that he knew what he's doing with his army. That, as you pointed out, is basically obvious. What I mean is that he may not know what he's doing socially.
In some groups, people play cutthroat games, and they like it that way. The guy might not even understand what his opponents feel when they play him (I'm sure it would be too much to suggest that he's a sociopath, but something less dramatic would certainly be possible, or even probable).

@Nieto: I'll make this brief- I'm just going to defend myself once here, and that's all. If you want to further discuss morality with me, I'd suggest some private messagin'. :

- yes, people have flaws. But we can work to overcome them. We certainly won't succeed, but the act of trying is pretty awesome.

- the desire to see this sort of "justice" dealt out is pretty common. Vengeance is cool. Making the other guy pay feels good; I'll admit that. But it's certainly not a "good" thing to do. He'll probably try to do the same right back at ya'.

- Many Beliefs are a state of mind. But basic Right and Wrong are not. They're biological. It's not cool to murder people- a species that thought it was wouldn't last long. The same thing applies to hurting people in any other way. And Hammurabi's Code seems pretty badass, until you really get down there and see just what, exactly, the crime was. Once you can prove that no one individual is wholly to blame/credit for their actions (you can), the "crime" was nothing, and so the punishment should be nothing.
...but that's not to say that we shouldn't protect ourselves. Murderers go to jail, and abusive War Gamers don't get to play with us.

- Karma is cool. But no one should ever be so bold as to assume the role of the Karmic Enforcer. That's a pretty grand claim for any person. You can't say "we're all just Pawns of Fate" and then say "so take the initiative and make your destiny come true" in the same breath. You want Karma to work, you got to leave it alone. You want petty vengeance, you act. If Malleus accidentally hit this guy with his car, that's Karma. If he "accidentally" hit this guy with a bat, that's something else.

...okay.

I don't have a problem with your sentiment, but when you assert that basic right and wrong are biological, I'd love to see where you're getting that from. From my reading, such ideas are pretty grounded in social context. Small family bands will often murder strangers they come across, this has been observed even into the modern day- the reason we do not is because our society has developed rules and taboos around it. If the population density is low enough that these taboos don't need to develop, we see plenty of murderous behaviour.

Also, as someone who studies ethics (I enjoy it too) you will understand that a person's ethics are personal to them, and that if they feel justice is important and can support it (the social contract idea certainly makes an argument for justice) then it is not unethical for them to enforce it, even in the fairly mild and (can I say) pretty humourous fashion presented here.
I mean, I broadly agree with you, I just think you're going too far in trying to put forward your point of view as the correct one.

Warpsolution wrote:I'm a big Ethics type of person. I've studied it a lot, it interests me, etc.

I don't like when people throw academics into gaming discussion. People pay more attention to the language than the content, and assume the point is valid because it's supported by someone who uses professional terminology. For instance if someone less than perused your post they wouldn't have realized that there's no such thing as 'big Ethics', just as there's no such thing as an extremely historic event, or something very unique. Similarly the reader might take at face value your assumption that ethics is a proper noun, inflating its value. It's even possible they wouldn't of realized that we're not talking about ethics, we're talking about morality.

Ethics refers to the application of morality in a community - not the moral decision itself. A moral decision is more or less a personal determination of right or wrong. For instance. You shoot my dog. You made a moral judgement. I'm forced to make a moral judgement myself, should I call the police or shoot you back? I make the decision to call the police and you are charged for first degree Dog Murder. There the jury is given an ethical decision, specifically this is called meta-ethics.

If we were talking about the league organizers, it would be ethics. If we were talking about the FLGS staff, the GW writers, or a mob of angry gamers with torches and pitchforks it would be ethics. We're talking about morals. Ogre Boy just shot someone's dog, and he decided not to call the police. Obviously you already know this though, after all, you've studied this a lot.

More relevantly. I love a good revenge story, and seeing as how this doesn't involve anyone actually getting hurt, I don't see the harm.

Squash wrote:

Warpsolution wrote:I'm a big Ethics type of person. I've studied it a lot, it interests me, etc.

... For instance if someone less than perused your post they wouldn't have realized that there's no such thing as 'big Ethics', just as there's no such thing as an extremely historic event, or something very unique....

I don't believe he's claiming anything of the sort, just that he's "big" on ethics. He enjoys it. He's studied it a lot. It interests him. Etc. Why is this devolving into a discussion of semantics? Especially when Warpsolution requested any further discussion on the morality of the situation be relegated to PMs?

I smell promethium.

The topic. Stay on it. And please do be polite.

Thanks!

Oh yeah. If you try to be reasonable with him, and he refuses to listen to htat reason.

either kick him out of the club,

or organize in such a way that he just stops winning with prejiduce

This includes tooling specifically to beat him, even for tournaments.

In fairness, you wouldn't want to kick him out of the club for something like that. He'd interpret it as being kicked out for winning a bunch of games.

nothing unfair about that. His interpretation doesn't matter. He was a slowplaying jerkface that clubbed baby seals.

Alright back on topic, so when is someone going to play against good ole Ogre Boy? As I am curious to hear what happens. Maybe this weekend a game will be played?

nieto666 wrote:Alright back on topic, so when is someone going to play against good ole Ogre Boy? As I am curious to hear what happens. Maybe this weekend a game will be played?

Just be patient. It was already said it might be weeks before anything happens.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Squash wrote:Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Ancient Klingon proverb.

sorry, the Trekkie in me couldnt resist.

Revenge is a dish best served with a lot of mayonnaise and maybe some of those little cheese cubes on sticks.

A few eyedrops in his drink, when he's not looking would be great.

I do hope something positive comes out of this. I've been thinking about starting fantasy, and if Either of those games happened, I'd be angry enough to not want to play. Esp, in the first 10 games.

It is just a game, after all. A lot of people seem to forget that Warhammer is not real life and there's nothing really important at stake.
Malleus, you should remember that as you and your mates "curbstomp" ogre boy. So long as that is kept in mind I don't think the rest really matters.

Also be vary wary of ogre deathstars. They contain copious amounts of characters who refuse to die with even more ogres who you have to weedle through. I recommend cannons followed by the Waralter pinning technique, and finally (if there is still a turn left and a unit left) a coup de grace using a massive hoard of halberdiers.

Dumb question incoming: Couldn't a feedback scroll be a solution to his crazy unit buffs?

Not when he 1 die casts all of them.

yes, feedback scrolls make ogres laugh.

ooo, you wounded my 4 wound caster who can cast a spell to heal himself or probably has the Bloodcleaver to get wounds back by killing your RnF.

Some quick thoughts:

Ogres are very reliant on hand to hand to do damage and are really good at it. You sould do your damage in the shooting phase. For this I recomend Cannons and hell blaster volley guns.

Ogre players will tend to take those yheti models to come on from the back board edge to remove said artilery. If I wanted to prove a point I would create an unbroken line of my really cheap infantry across my back board edge. Nothing says F-you better than wasting 200 points to simply eliminate a tactic against your army.

Do not go head to head with ogre characters. The dudes can be equiped very solidly and by nigh unkillable by empire.

Magic heavy. I would go offensive magic heavy. Probably death for purple sun and the sniping bjuna spell. I might also consider going warrior priest heavy. I have not seen it run but I believe I talked to an empire player about how warrior priests add dispell dice for each one. Take 5 of them and watch his bone cracker magic go poof.

You do also have to watch out for the panic test at -2 I believe. Make sure you take a bsb and a general and keep it all close enough to pass the tests that you cannot block with magic defense.

I would avoid the steam tank as he has too much that can kill or disable it easily.

Rolling noobs at the game store is not cool. I can forgive undestating your quality as trying to be humble but then trashing the noobs and making fun of them is not cool.. This is a game so I believe your response is correct tool a list and trach him.

BrPrometheus wrote:
Ogres are very reliant on hand to hand to do damage and are really good at it. You sould do your damage in the shooting phase. For this I recomend Cannons and hell blaster volley guns.

A cannon reliably kills less than 1 Ogre per shot. You will have 2 turns of shooting, on average, before the Ogres get locked in combat and are untargetable.

BrPrometheus wrote:Ogre players will tend to take those yheti models to come on from the back board edge to remove said artilery. If I wanted to prove a point I would create an unbroken line of my really cheap infantry across my back board edge. Nothing says F-you better than wasting 200 points to simply eliminate a tactic against your army.

The unit you're talking about is a Gorger, and they're really less than useful in 8th, since the first turn they can attack a war machine is T3, and if Ogres aren't in combat by then, the game is over already.

Badtoof, warrior priests do indeed generate a DD per turn. Not only that, arch lectors (a lord-level priest) generate TWO each. Not only that, they (priests and lectors) give any unit they join hatred against all enemies, allow me to take some flagellants as core (usually rare) and the models are some of the coolest human character models available from GW. I'm pretty sure I would still take the same number of priests in my list even if they didn't generate DD at all... since they do, they're an insanely good buy.

I'm torn.
My Canadian side says: Pull his jersey over his head, give him a couple of good uppercuts and then walk to the penalty box with your head held high.
My Swiss side says: Be diplomatic, find a solution that benifits everyone and use the situation to open a discussion about what kind of games that people in the League want to play.

I don't totaly agree with Warpsolution but he makes a good point. The idea of a "personal crusade (for vengence) against Ogre Boy" isn't the right way and not for the right reasons.
I can suggest going back to the Hockey comparison. Like you said being an Enforcer is not about beating people up, it's about protecting the rookies and/or the players that aren't as physical.
I can see that your hearts in the right place by the description of your plan. Game 1, Game 2 ect. Make sure Ogre Boy knows why you are doing it too.
Maybe invite the noobs to stand on your side of the table so Ogre Boy know why you are giving him a beatdown. I think it would go down better if everyone knows it's not personal but on principle.
This might not work, if he is a real douche then he might just mock them more for needing an "older brother" to fight their battles for them. If he does do that then at least you know he is a lost cause and can kick him without feeling guilty about it.

Stupid question: What if Ogre Boy does read this thread and switches his list to compensate? You have a back-up plan? Unless you can build a list that can beatdown Ogres regardless of what he takes then you should write several lists to make sure.

Good luck, aye!

Stonewyrm

No one is ever set straight by a good beatdown. No bully in the history of humanity has been smacked around and decided to become a prophet of love. People getting smacked around is what makes people bullies (or at least one of the things). That's why they call it a cycle. Not because a kid gets abused and gets on his bi-cycle to preach tolerance.

DukeRustfield wrote:No one is ever set straight by a good beatdown. No bully in the history of humanity has been smacked around and decided to become a prophet of love. People getting smacked around is what makes people bullies (or at least one of the things). That's why they call it a cycle. Not because a kid gets abused and gets on his bi-cycle to preach tolerance.

Germany and Japan? Now two of the most pacifistic countries in the world?