Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A 28mm scale Imperial Warship. Possibly Emporer class. For next thursday.

Vaktathi wrote:There's a FW DKoK Siege Regiment list, but it's something that half the playerbase recoils in horror from either because its a PDF or because its from FW, regardless of the actual contents. It also only covers Siege Regiments while Krieg fields just about everything but Drop Troop regiments.

It's a fantasy. I realize there are far more things that need updating, that need fixing, and that the basic IG codex is relatively versatile. However my fantasy would still be to see a DKoK codex

-plastic kits.
-release C: eldar, tau, daemons, squats, necrons, SoB, ordo xenos, orks and CSM.
-plastic DKoK, SL, mordian, tallarn, valhallan, ect.
-C.S Goto- neutralised.
-all armies with a battleforce.

A guy can dream, can't he?

wolfpack wrote:HMMMM....well now...

1. Give WGPL the ability to lead skyclaw packs (change the FAQ)

Because that is exactly what we need, lets make the wolves even more over the top than they already are!

Setup a new 40k terrain line with Space Corridors and Industrial Towers.

snurl wrote:Setup a new 40k terrain line with Space Corridors and Industrial Towers.

+1

A product release schedule of at least 12 months.

A 40K codex AND a WFB army book released each month with or without model support (so "problems with the scults" does not leave armies unplayable).

Montly updates of faqs (on the first of each month).

A new xenos army each year AND a new WFB army each year.

No more time wasted on LoTRs (nice looking game, but all the necessary models are really already done).

Bastion of Mediocrity wrote:No more time wasted on LoTRs (nice looking game, but all the necessary models are really already done).

true. LOTR got me into the hobby, but:
-every model needs a 6 to wound.
-AFAIK barely anyone plays it after WotR.
-In WotR, monstrous creatures=kill everthing. Imagine having carnifexes, with no FOC and each one being 80pts. That.

Plastic Wraithguard with specialist roles/weapons (let them be a bit more diverse, represent some of their skills from life).

BrookM wrote:

Pacific wrote:Why the Jervis Johnson hate? He is one of the last bastions of humanity in a faceless corporate machine. ^^

Two words: Standard Bearer.

Wow really? Thats actually one of the only worthwhile bits of text in the mag for me, guess it shows how these things are subjective!

mwnciboo wrote:

wolfpack wrote:HMMMM....well now...

1. Give WGPL the ability to lead skyclaw packs (change the FAQ)

Because that is exactly what we need, lets make the wolves even more over the top than they already are!

Over the top?? The only SM assault troops in the ENTIRE game who cannot have the equivalent of a vet sergeant to lead the squad...

And just for chitz and grinz lets look at codex BA...
how about those hand held meltas and flamers??...or those cute lil stormraven models?? hmmmm looks like they get to take our assault AND CC tactics away from us

I don't see us get anything like that...oh wait we have the atomic squirrel and lost our CC specialty and the ability to take an extra power weap in a 10 man squad...
and are turned into assault?? specialists being able to take two assault weaps??...but oh look we can only give our models Plasma guns cuz GW is so screwed up they want the pups to kill themselves off on every roll of one...while every other SM vanilla kit has the option to take flamers AND meltas...

and the release was supposed to coincide with the dex?? PLEASE....if that's the case then we have there been two FAQ updates already??

Space Wolves have the advantage of not losing long range firepower while having 2 CCWs and counter attack.


why would you want a WGPL to join Skyclaws anyway? Skyclaws are a poor unit just like Swiftclaws.

Grey Templar wrote:Space Wolves have the advantage of not losing long range firepower while having 2 CCWs and counter attack.

Actually no we cannot take two CCW unless you pay the points to include a WGPL...previous dex yes this dex no...then if you want trans for the squad you lose the extra assault weap to include the WGPL...

SW kits only include plasma guns...like that's all GW wants the wolves to have...no love there...unless you go spending extra to get the bitz...yet the other chapter specific kits allow for multiple options...why not my lads??

why would you want a WGPL to join Skyclaws anyway? Skyclaws are a poor unit just like Swiftclaws.

Add a WGPL and they aren't so poor anymore...but then again I can include one in my Swiftclaw packs, Skyclaws are the only packs that I can't add a WGPL to...

Would I change that heck yes I would...

Wolfpack, Grey Hunters have 2 basic attacks with 3 on the first round of CC. They come AS STANDARD with 2 Close Combat Weapons and a Bolter.
Sky Claws are meant to be a fire and forget unit, hence WGPL's cant attach themselves. Blood Claws are put into Sky Claws as an almost punishment, so they wouldn't have a Wolf Guard leading them.

Nonetheless, let's NOT let this dissolve into another thread of bickering about Space Wolves.

ummm, you do have a BP, CCW, AND bolter standard right?

my apologies...was refering to the special CCW weaps we lost in this dex...power weaps/power fists

and that nonsense about Skyclaws being punishment is felgercarb...first time in 20 years that being a jump pack assault troop has been called punishment in ANY dex...I demand a recount...or a rewrite...or his head on a stick

True scale all models...that would be nice!

O emperor No.

then we would see $100 landraiders.

And there would definately be a price increase in ALL other SM kits from GW...they would have to justify actually making the marines the right size and using all that extra raw plastic and slip...

wolfpack wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:

wolfpack wrote:HMMMM....well now...

1. Give WGPL the ability to lead skyclaw packs (change the FAQ)

Because that is exactly what we need, lets make the wolves even more over the top than they already are!

Over the top?? The only SM assault troops in the ENTIRE game who cannot have the equivalent of a vet sergeant to lead the squad...

And just for chitz and grinz lets look at codex BA...
how about those hand held meltas and flamers??...or those cute lil stormraven models?? hmmmm looks like they get to take our assault AND CC tactics away from us

I don't see us get anything like that...oh wait we have the atomic squirrel and lost our CC specialty and the ability to take an extra power weap in a 10 man squad...
and are turned into assault?? specialists being able to take two assault weaps??...but oh look we can only give our models Plasma guns cuz GW is so screwed up they want the pups to kill themselves off on every roll of one...while every other SM vanilla kit has the option to take flamers AND meltas...

and the release was supposed to coincide with the dex?? PLEASE....if that's the case then we have there been two FAQ updates already??

OMG.....You must be insane. LONG FANGS 5 x HW (oh BTW they are cheaper than Normal DEVS and their WEAPONS are cheaper!) Oh yeah Rune Priests (with a force multiplier), Wolf priests, Iron priests, Lone Wolves, Wolf Lords, Thunder Wolf Cavalry, Scouts with Special Weapons as Elites, Wolf Guard that can take any Combo of weapons they feel like and a Battle leader is an IC. A blood claw with a Stasis grenade for a heart, Ulrik the Slayer, Bjorn the Fell handed, Ragnar, Canis, Logan Grimnar, Arjac (oh yeah and all kinds of special rules for their troops COUNTER-ATTACK, ACUTE SENSORS, BERSERK CHARGE, HEADSTRONG) oh and FENRISIAN WOLVES, SKY CLAWS. You are mental if you don't think the Wolves are Overpowering. Get out your Space Wolf Codex and compare it to the Space Marine Codex for a reality check...Seriously do it and you realise your argument holds no water.

I don't mean to be inflaminatory but 40K needs balance, this makes the Game Playable. With multiple combinations for every army no one should be Invincible or invulnerable, not being able to do certain things or equip certain weapons stops units becoming UBER KILLY or UBER Overpowered. The Space Wolves are definitely a strong force to be reckoned with to demand more options is a little...spoilt?

Anyway back on thread.

Warhammer 30k (Like a 28mm version of the old Space Marine Renegade supplement to EPIC 40k!)

All GW products come with a side order of Chicken Nuggets.

since the last army books all seem to feature the year 999 predominantly..... warhammer 41k!

the millennia with even more violence and dying,


OR........

the millennia where the emperor has plastic surgery and organ transplants
rubout guilleman's booboo on his neck heals
lion el' jonson decides to come out of hibernation
Leman Russ comes back from a long shopping trip in the EoT
all other *lost* primarchs are found on some backwater planet where they own a little farm with some alfalfa, and some chickens, and they all tend rabbits which they are CRAAZYYY about.
the BIGGEST ever hive fleet attacks "hive fleet enormous", who have subsequently found out that they don't like the taste of meat, but they love carrots!
the tau sit down and drink some green tea
the orks become smart and start using computer technology and the internet to research how they can help control climate change among many polluted planets
the eldar and dark eldar unite and start happy families on some planets after they realise its much nicer to be stationary for a while, and that torture is a bit boring.
the necrons find this time period boring and decide to go back into sleep mode.
Chaos don't like the idea of no blood shed and decide to go to another dimension, where they decide to drop the whole death and blood thing and invent a new thing called "the force", they also make a baby who they call sidious.

all in all: total catastrophe! unless your a hippy, in which, YAY PEACE FOREVER!!!!

(Goddam i love a good rant!)

I would initiate operation: It's not 1987 any more damn it!

Freeze production of the current edditions of 40k and WHFB. Current work get finished and tossed on their website for free.

6th and 9th edition get built from the ground up. Balance becomes the order of the day so that there are no crap lousy forces any more. Everything is reviewed and balanced against each other at design. The system gets reviewed so that you can play from a few hundred points up to several thousand and still have tight fun games.

Nothing gets removed from the setting. Ever. Squats? Welcome back. Zoats? Why not? If you let people spend money on it then it gets an update and remains playable.

In a 12 to 18 month period we see the new core rulebooks and all current Army and Codex books. Then no more Army/Codex books for that edition. Whenever there is a new expansion we get one book that has something for everyone in it. A one and done policy like every other gaming company out there.

Look at how PP handled the transition to MK2 for Warmahordes. If GW did something like that where I'm not hanging for the better part of a decade for my army update then I'd actually play warhams again.

Then revisit the "specialist games" and figure out how to make them successful. It seems like most of them died because they didn't require constant new purchases. Guess what? If you keep making new expansions/add ons then people will keep buying the product.

FFG has how many board/card games that they keep stuff coming out a steady rate for? I'm sure if you had a steady trickle of Gorkamordmundiaepicbowlgothichulkquest stuff coming out then you would find your customers. Killing production of a game kills the game. People are cautious about getting into a game where there is no new content in the pipeline.

You do realize that if the game was balanced there would be no reason, other then astetics, to choose one army over another.


While it would level the playing field for noobs, it would kill some of the romantic thrill some people have with playing an army that currently isn't so competitive.

it also destroys the Business Plan GW has(yes they do have one)


by having the armies get updated in a haphazerd order and have them fluctuate in power over time you encourage people to get different armies. a person gets army bla bla, has a bunch of fun, but then the new edition changes things around and your army isn't so hot. you then start army bla bla because it's moderatly powerful and you want something new.

then the Meta swings around and eventually your old army is good again.

the Cycle continues ad nausium.

the cycle isn't the same for all armies, some haven't made a complete circle, some don't make much of a circle and tend to maintain their power level(Space Marines).


I like having different armies be the new Power house. sure it promotes "Bandwagoners", but hey, what goes around comes around.


if all armies were equal in power you would likely see a greater deal of builds that were more or less the same(1 take all comers list per codex) and people wouldn't have multiple armies as often as they do.

Grey Templar wrote:You do realize that if the game was balanced there would be no reason, other then astetics, to choose one army over another.

You'd still have play style and army composition, the only thing you'd lose is the motivation to choose an army because it's overpowered.

While it would level the playing field for noobs, it would kill some of the romantic thrill some people have with playing an army that currently isn't so competitive.

You can do that yourself without GW's help: just bring a 1,800 point army to a 2,000 point game.

Indeed.. but I would hazard a guess that the reason codex-creep keeps coming in again, and again and again (and if anything has become more pronounced) is I would argue part of GW's strategy. I think a great number of people buy a new army because it is the latest, most powerful thing, and GW are aware of this. You can tie it in nicely with the nerfing of units which most people already have in their collection (the Carnifex etc.)

Why should 'game balance' be that important to the company (when considering how much of the tournament scene makes up of the overall game buying public), when they have already started throwing the integrity of the game systems down the toilet just to get more models on the tabletop, which is something that effects every person (both veteran and newcomer) who plays the game? When some of the most entertaining and diverse games they have ever produced, in the form of the 'specialist games', has been locked away in the corner like some embarrassing uncle who always gets drunk and rowdy at family functions? If you look across the company for the past 6-7 years (essentially, since it became 'public') you can see one motivation behind every single strategic decision, and that is the counting of beans. It might be that such policies have been necessary to save the company, but if so it has come at a price.

(wow sorry this has really turned into a rant, and it wasn't meant to be!)

Grey Templar wrote:You do realize that if the game was balanced there would be no reason, other then astetics, to choose one army over another.

While it would level the playing field for noobs, it would kill some of the romantic thrill some people have with playing an army that currently isn't so competitive.

Your confusing balance with homogeneity. You can have armies that are balanced against each other but still offer radically different play styles. Warmahordes is a good example as there are currently fourteen distinct factions that all play differently but do so on a level playing field. All armies should by default be competitive. While winning isn't everything, having a good game should be. Getting tabled in less than 10 minutes isn't fun for anyone.

Grey Templar wrote:
it also destroys the Business Plan GW has(yes they do have one)

Their business plan sucks, but we'll get to that.

Grey Templar wrote:
by having the armies get updated in a haphazerd order and have them fluctuate in power over time you encourage people to get different armies. a person gets army bla bla, has a bunch of fun, but then the new edition changes things around and your army isn't so hot. you then start army bla bla because it's moderatly powerful and you want something new.

then the Meta swings around and eventually your old army is good again.

the Cycle continues ad nausium.

the cycle isn't the same for all armies, some haven't made a complete circle, some don't make much of a circle and tend to maintain their power level(Space Marines).


I like having different armies be the new Power house. sure it promotes "Bandwagoners", but hey, what goes around comes around.


if all armies were equal in power you would likely see a greater deal of builds that were more or less the same(1 take all comers list per codex) and people wouldn't have multiple armies as often as they do.

You know what else encourages people to get different armies? Those armies being fun. I have picked up four starter boxes of Warmahordes because a) the price was right and b) I wanted to see how the other side lives. Once I get a few solid lists for my main faction (Swan crew 4 lyfe!) I'm going to flesh out one of those starters. And then the next. Because I know I can have a good experience with any of them without banging my head against a wall.

Pacific wrote:
Why should 'game balance' be that important to the company (when considering how much of the tournament scene makes up of the overall game buying public), when they have already started throwing the integrity of the game systems down the toilet just to get more models on the tabletop, which is something that effects every person (both veteran and newcomer) who plays the game? When some of the most entertaining and diverse games they have ever produced, in the form of the 'specialist games', has been locked away in the corner like some embarrassing uncle who always gets drunk and rowdy at family functions? If you look across the company for the past 6-7 years (essentially, since it became 'public') you can see one motivation behind every single strategic decision, and that is the counting of beans. It might be that such policies have been necessary to save the company, but if so it has come at a price.

The overall game experience should be important because the market is different now then it was 10 years ago. For damn near three decades now GW has had a monopoly on "mainstream" war-gaming. But that's beginning to change. Warmahordes and Flames of War have been out long enough to have gone through a major rules update, and have survived. It's too early to tell for Infinity, Malifaux, and Spartan Games' lineup, but I'd be willing to bet at least one is going to make it.

While all those "other" games are still much smaller than warhams they do offer the first real alternative GW has had to compete with. If they continue to grown and establish their player bases then new players, the fresh meat that all companies hope to feast on, are going to have to decide which type of game gets their money: one which focuses on the game experience or one that focuses on flavors of the month.

MOD Can we move all the Posts from Dark6Spectre down onto a New thread as this is a fantastic debate but we have begun it accidentally on someone elses Thread.

That thread has been started, you now bear full responsibility for coming up with a better title for it.

..and if my SMT are upset because their meeting starts late because of this I am placing all of the blame onto you.




If further discussion in that regard could be posted there, this thread can continue on its merry way, before, alas, it falls and is placed into rehab like a hitherto unknown Lohan family family.

Grey Templar wrote:O emperor No.

then we would see $100 landraiders.

They already exist here in aus.

reds8n wrote: That thread has been started, you now bear full responsibility for coming up with a better title for it.

..and if my SMT are upset because their meeting starts late because of this I am placing all of the blame onto you.




If further discussion in that regard could be posted there, this thread can continue on its merry way, before, alas, it falls and is placed into rehab like a hitherto unknown Lohan family family.

Damn...lost for my train of thought now....