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Kilkrazy wrote:The thing about the IoM, though, is that it has been in the worst crisis in its history for the past 10,000 years, so if they haven't cracked out the hidden real technology yet, it's because there isn't any.

You mean they don't have any super-galaxy-auto-win weapons that can solve all their problems in one go? No, not really. But no other race does either.

Upon encountering Necrons, the Adeptus started experiments regarding Guass Weaponry. They succesfully replicated a gauss cannon, but the engergy used was mind-boggingly enormous. So they do understand how Gauss Tech works, they just have no idea where the Necrons are getting the energy to fire them at such a rate from.

Regarding the Machine Spirit, these are basically AI's right? Would these be more advanced than the Tau equivalent, or less so?

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Regarding the Machine Spirit, these are basically AI's right? Would these be more advanced than the Tau equivalent, or less so?

That's a good question. I would say that current Tau AI tech is superior to IoM's simply through choice. IoM was burned by AI in the past (the metal men war, etc) but Tau haven't had this problem so utilize the technology more extensively. In game, there are several types of drones that are completely autonomous of direct control; however, it is possible for a unit to possess a drone controller if the drone is in a unit or attached to a ship. One thing is for certain, there is no evidence that the Tau view drones or related AI mechanisms as divine spirits worthy of worship as IoM does.

That could perhaps be bad thing.

And there certainly isn't any evidence (that I'm aware of) that indicates that AI's are prevalent throughout the larger Tau Vehichles and Ships.

Emperors Faithful wrote:That could perhaps be bad thing.

And there certainly isn't any evidence (that I'm aware of) that indicates that AI's are prevalent throughout the larger Tau Vehichles and Ships.

It's entirely possible that it could be a bad thing; however, the Tau have shown a knack for taking something potentially dangerous and producing sufficient control over it to make it harmless (i.e, plasma weapons).

In a drone form there is. Most mid to large Tau vessels have entire racks of drones as well as drone controlled turrets (Manta is a good example of this). As for the spacecraft, I simply don't know; maybe someone that's played BFG could enlighten us as to if anything is mentioned there.


edited for spelling.

agnosto wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:That could perhaps be bad thing.

And there certainly isn't any evidence (that I'm aware of) that indicates that AI's are prevalent throughout the larger Tau Vehichles and Ships.

It's entirely possible that it could be a bad thing; however, the Tau have shown a knack for taking something potentially dangerous and producing sufficient control over it to make it harmless (i.e, plasma weapons).

In a drone form there is. Most mid to large Tau vessels have entire racks of drones as well as drone controlled turrets (Manta is a good example of this). As for the spacecraft, I simply don't know; maybe someone that's played BFG could enlighten us as to if anything is mentioned there.

BFG? That's me!

Not much is said in BFG about tau drone tech. So far, I heard about tau missile and torpedoes that are controlled by advanced AI which means they can effectively track their target through the battlefield.

Tau attack crafts (like mantas, barracudas, etc) also use drone AI to help the pilot in manoeuvering its aircraft (with tactical displays, targeting feeds, etc).

Drone AIs also equip the defensive turrets and naval batteries of all Tau warships. These AIs don't only improve the accuracy of Tau naval weapons, but they can also coordinate the salvoes of all the weapons of one ship, or even of an entire squadron of vessels.

In terms of game, means that the Tau player can re-roll its dice for touching an ennemy ship (in certain occasions) and that tau missiles and torpedoes can change directions (unlike imperial torpedoes).

xXSir MontyXx wrote:There is a movie called the battle for terra, I saw some of it with my siblings and it is aimed more at a younger audience. However in the story humans ran out of resources on earth (go figure) so they terraformed and colonized mars and Venus. The two other planets wanted independence so war broke out and the planets were blown to hell, including Earth. Therefore the survivors of the war went to the nearest habitable planet (the setting) and began gathering the natives and blowin' stuff up. In the beginning of the movie the natives look primitive and peaceful, however later you find out that they have advanced weaponry none of the regular natives know about. The secrecy keeps the tech from being used for wrong and to hurt each other. The leaders of the civilization blind them with religion and other cultural things to keep the world at peace. It reminded me very much of the IoM.

Because when i think of the IoM...i think "peaceful" xD

Probably so , However if I had some aces up my sleeve I would only set them loose at the most critical of situation's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didnt mean the natives of that planet were EXACTLY like the IoM. However im sure there are technologies that are being tested that might even be considered heretical ideas.

of course, the authorities testing those Technologies are the same ones who decide whats Heresy and whats not.


the Ad Mech slaps Tech Heresy on certain technologies to keep the unexpierienced from handeling dangerous things or because they don't want bad things to happen.

Artificially creating completely organic creatures is forbidden for the same reason autonomous AI is banned. they might rebel and start another Iron Man war.

Xeno tech is banned in most cases because people might get hurt, like holding the wrong end of a strange weapon or setting the power level to something wrong. Xeno contact is also forbidden because of Disease. who knows what nasty cold those T'au might give you? (This is why, if we ever do encounter aliens, we can't allow for friendly contact. nasty space germs. of course it likely would work both ways, like in War of the Worlds )

The Leman Russ Punisher Gatling Gun is a newly introduced weapon.

Well the tau can replicate hover tech, and the imperium doesn't have any way to create more. If that doesn't state tau tech is greater, then I'm not sure what does.

juraigamer wrote:Well the tau can replicate hover tech, and the imperium doesn't have any way to create more.

You mean that there's a finite number of Land Speeders?

the Imperium hasn't lost Hover tech(although Land Speeders don't use hover tech, but rather skim on Grav plates)


they don't use it on vehicles much anymore because of the inherent dange of Skimmers. a fast moving vehicle can be shot out of the sky, killing the occupants.

for battle tanks it makes much more sense to have them in touch with good ol' terra firma.


about the only place you see Hover tech in the imperium is in Civilian vehicles for wealthy individuals.

Grey Templar wrote:the Imperium hasn't lost Hover tech(although Land Speeders don't use hover tech, but rather skim on Grav plates)


they don't use it on vehicles much anymore because of the inherent dange of Skimmers. a fast moving vehicle can be shot out of the sky, killing the occupants.

for battle tanks it makes much more sense to have them in touch with good ol' terra firma.


about the only place you see Hover tech in the imperium is in Civilian vehicles for wealthy individuals.

Because it's much safer to trundle along in a rhino? Naw, not buying it.

As far as space germs; how come rogue traders aren't dropping like flies? It's 40k years in the future, you'd think they'd have access to such things as air scrubbers and haz-mat suits that are readily available now...

I think the xenophobia of the IoM is more self-preservation of the status-quo than any real fear of disease. The real disease is outside ideas, kind of like North Korea or to some extent China of a decade ago. The Tau codex includes a report by an Inquisitor about a planet that was trading with Tau for advanced manufacturing and agricultural tech and how it's heresy, blah blah blah. You can't have your peasants using automated factories and farms when you want to come along and conscript them later. You need them lean and angry so you can blame their problems on xeno scum.

juraigamer wrote:Well the tau can replicate hover tech, and the imperium doesn't have any way to create more. If that doesn't state tau tech is greater, then I'm not sure what does.

Imperium can replicate warp field generator to travel much faster trough space (warp travel). I think that this does it.

agnosto wrote:

Because it's much safer to trundle along in a rhino? Naw, not buying it.

Well, yes o_ô Seriously, would you prefer to roam the battlefield, between the bullets, the flamers, the missiles, in a sturdy iron-covered earth-stuck big truck, or in a flying thing, without really any armor (since it would be too heavy), and that can fall anytime?

I choose the Rhino :p worse that can happen is getting stuck in mud or something :p

agnosto wrote:
I think the xenophobia of the IoM is more self-preservation of the status-quo than any real fear of disease. The real disease is outside ideas, kind of like North Korea or to some extent China of a decade ago. The Tau codex includes a report by an Inquisitor about a planet that was trading with Tau for advanced manufacturing and agricultural tech and how it's heresy, blah blah blah. You can't have your peasants using automated factories and farms when you want to come along and conscript them later. You need them lean and angry so you can blame their problems on xeno scum.

+1

Totally agree. The IoM's xenophobia is not rationnal. It is not justified either. It is simply a way to unite the human masses against a common ennemy by creating fear of the xenos. Sounds like a dictatorship actually.It reminds me of Hitler and his anti-jewish opinions.

Mikalichou wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Because it's much safer to trundle along in a rhino? Naw, not buying it.

Well, yes o_ô Seriously, would you prefer to roam the battlefield, between the bullets, the flamers, the missiles, in a sturdy iron-covered earth-stuck big truck, or in a flying thing, without really any armor (since it would be too heavy), and that can fall anytime?

I choose the Rhino :p worse that can happen is getting stuck in mud or something :p

A devilfish is just as durable as a rhino and, with wargear, not nearly as weak to anti-transport fire (disruption pods). Plus, a skimmer is able to move quickly and hide behind terrain. Seriously, the only reason that Marines don't use flying transport (other than the new stormchicken) is for game balance not anything that makes sense.

This is a great thread. Tau are clearly the more advanced. The Imperium is barely hanging on technology-wise. Just look at those poor gaks the Marines Malevolent--running around with mixed match armor and what not. The Imperium are like Romans in the 4th century who were looking at the Colosseum and Aqueducts saying, "How in the F@#% did our ancestors build that?"

Mikalichou wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Because it's much safer to trundle along in a rhino? Naw, not buying it.

Well, yes o_ô Seriously, would you prefer to roam the battlefield, between the bullets, the flamers, the missiles, in a sturdy iron-covered earth-stuck big truck, or in a flying thing, without really any armor (since it would be too heavy), and that can fall anytime?

I choose the Rhino :p worse that can happen is getting stuck in mud or something :p

A devilfish is just as durable as a Rhino or Chimera, and can land via atmospheric entry by themselves

1hadhq wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

Yeah, kinda.

If the IoM can build an 800m long battlecruiser every day, why have they invaded the Eye of Terror with their 3.5 million ships they have built in the past 10,000 years?

How come they can build a battlecruiser every day, but only about 10 heavy tanks and terminator armour suits a year?

Because they also lose 1 battlecruiser everyday, sometimes 2.
Also they make 0 Terminator suits every year.

No.
They make everything neccessary to be part of the storys of GW and BL.

The perfect cycle.
Nobody will ever run out of units.

And I'd prefer sources for these wierd numbers some are pulling here.

Agreed.
Terminator ARMOR IS IN PRODUCTION!
It is so much more advanced than the hersey variant of terminator Armor.

Lots of stuff in the imperium has changed. The bolters don't jam as much as they use too. And the Guardsmen are actually better trained than the hersey era ones.

The Imperium has improved greatly. Their Ships are better than before, and hence why Chaos keeps getting its arse kicked.

The Tau don't have the massive ships that can tear apart an entire solar system in 1 minute.

Imperium has made their own tech.
The tau have stolen it from the Squats... erm. I mean Space Dwarves.The tau have a crippling government.

The Imperium has millions of planets. The Tau 90 or so.

Imperium has warp capabilities, the Tau do not.

The Imperium have plasma weaponry. The Tau do but it kinda sucks.

The Imperium has rail guns the size of a freaking tau ship. The Tau have them but unit sized +1 for tau.

The Imperium has hover craft used in civilian vechiles and artibutes vechiles. Don't believe me? Well they do. its just hover technology can easily be made, its just that they are so easy to hit and they crash alot.

The Imperium builds millions of armor, weapons, and vehicles of war. From a Single forge world factory. Enough said.

The Imperium has a vast amount of small empires, and the Imperium is spread thinly. the Tau are centered around their homeplanet.

The Imperium just wins with basically overwhelming numbers, armor, weapons, and higher tech. The Tau just have tech that looks better and makes cooler noises.

Retribution wrote:
A devilfish is just as durable as a Rhino or Chimera, and can land via atmospheric entry by themselves

Skimmers can crash by passing above bushes. Tracks are safer

Asherian Command wrote:The Imperium have plasma weaponry. The Tau do but it kinda sucks.

Imperium plasma explodes, their plasma don't.



I think that rather than trying to find who has the biggest... "cannon", why don't we just ally with them, and use their technology? Yeah, no xenos rule, and all that, but... well, we can just consider they are humans who look a little sick no?

Mikalichou wrote:



I think that rather than trying to find who has the biggest... "cannon", why don't we just ally with them, and use their technology? Yeah, no xenos rule, and all that, but... well, we can just consider they are humans who look a little sick no?

You can't ally with them.
Their "friend / foe " identifier systems suck that hard, its likely youre getting overrun by any threat because one of their priest-caste got it wrong again.
Look up nids, DE, necrons.....

Plus, the IoM has its own bound xenos to be inspired..... on Mars.
Why learn from trainees if you have a Master at hand?

Kilkrazy wrote:Notable technology advances by the IoM in the past 15,000 years.

M27.877.908
Put bobbles on the left pauldron of power armour.

M33.865.776
Removed bobbles from the left pauldron of power armour.
Changed the helmet design from being pointy to deflect projectiles, to being flat to act as a bullet trap.

M36.667.846
Attached a gun turret on top of the Rhino. Removed the mobility self-repair mechanism.

M39.867.127
Recovered Tau plasma technology. Decided it was too dangerous to use.

Yes, from the perspective of Marines, this is true. But marines are not scientists anyway so they're irrelevant to the discussion

Melissia wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Notable technology advances by the IoM in the past 15,000 years.

M27.877.908
Put bobbles on the left pauldron of power armour.

M33.865.776
Removed bobbles from the left pauldron of power armour.
Changed the helmet design from being pointy to deflect projectiles, to being flat to act as a bullet trap.

M36.667.846
Attached a gun turret on top of the Rhino. Removed the mobility self-repair mechanism.

M39.867.127
Recovered Tau plasma technology. Decided it was too dangerous to use.

Yes, from the perspective of Marines, this is true. But marines are not scientists anyway so they're irrelevant to the discussion

+1 Melissia

I have always seen the IOM's tech base as a mix of highs and lows, from a high of plasma reactors, and teleporters, vortex weapons, and multi-gigawatt man portable weapons, down to post earth era WW1 designed MBTs ( the leman russ for example) and the massive use of people power over automation ( I seem to remember an illustration in a BFG book showing hundreds of crewmen towing a torpedo into a launch tube using ropes! )

So in some areas yes the IOM is currently higher tech than the Tau empire...but the Tau are rapidly closing the gap and have exceeded the imperium in many areas, the main places I see a lag in the Tau's tech base is space travel speeds and range and teleportation systems, since the Tau have not exhibited any sort of advance in that arena of tech.

But as to anti-grav, plasma, charged particle, AI , social sciences, and a whole host of non combat based technologies I would say the Tau are leading the IOM in advances and continuing to widen the gap.

but thats just my opinion.

Maybe if Space marines were like Spartans from Halo who have doctoral degrees in....... everything.

Laodamia wrote:
Totally agree. The IoM's xenophobia is not rationnal. It is not justified either. It is simply a way to unite the human masses against a common ennemy by creating fear of the xenos. Sounds like a dictatorship actually.It reminds me of Hitler and his anti-jewish opinions.

If Tau have suffered like Humanity, for thousands of years hunted, killed and tourchered by aliens, mutants and heretics - they would be xenophobic to. Tau are technologically advanced - but they are not wise at all.

Definitely not, Tau are like the nerd at school that was sheltered by his parents for a LONG time and gets perfect grade's. The Imperium is like the kid that was getting perfect grade's but got overwhelmed by the work load and fell behind and then is always being bullied around for thinking he was better than everyone else while at his peak.

Once again a thread has been dragged completely off the topic.

Sigh.