Tau Tech Vs Imperium Tech, is one Greater?

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**agnosto**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
REALLY? You do realize that TDA is, bar none, THE most powerful form of personal armour in the Galaxy that you don't have to be permanently wired to, yes? This is fluff, not table-top, and even if it were table-top a 3++ is better than a 4++.

Broadsides are similar but more expensive (points-wise); besides they just look cooler; who doesn't want giant railguns on your shoulders? Heck of a lot better than storm bolters.

**Frazzled**

Terminator Cycline missile launcher rules, Tau rail gun drools.

**Ailaros**

There's been something that has been mentioned only a couple of times so far that I'd like to reiterate.

"Better" is a vague term, as lots of things can be better in different ways. One of the things that's missing is that imperial equipment has a marked advantage in production and maintenance.

It's like the classic US v. USSR model. Yes, the Tau weapons may be lighter, more powerful, and more accurate, but imperial weapons are manufactured with like 1/10th the number of parts, which means they are WAY more mass-produceable and are so rugged and easy to maintain that they don't really even need to train their soldiers how to maintain their weapons.

One of the ways one can see better is through the lens of which is more popular. Compare the thousands of M16's sold to the millions of ak-47's sold and then up that same idea to millions of pulse rifles to hundreds of trillions of lasguns, and you get my point.

The same is true for most technology of the imperium. Immobilize a skimmer, and it's wrecked in pieces. Immobilize a rhino and IT FIXES ITSELF.

**Kilkrazy**

Yes, that's true.

Of course the IoM doesn't mass produce weapons in the way we would understand the term. They are either hand built, or manufactured by STCs to which the IoM has lost most of the secrets.

Plus the innate conservatism of the whole society prevents any real advances in technology.

That is why it took the IoM 3,000 years to develop the Razorback from the Rhino, while it took the Tau 6,000 years to develop from the early stone age to space travel.

It is the fast rate of advance of Tau technology which is the challenge for the IoM. Given a couple of hundred more years, who knows what the clever little buggers will come up with?

Fortunately, the IoM is protected by impenetrable plot armour, as there are never any advances in the timeline.

**Mikalichou**

Ailaros wrote:Immobilize a skimmer, and it's wrecked in pieces. Immobilize a rhino and IT FIXES ITSELF.

Kilkrazy wrote: Fortunately, the IoM is protected by impenetrable plot armour, as there are never any advances in the timeline.

And sometimes, I whish there was an "approve this post" button.

**Brother Coa**

akaean wrote:

Oh god, don't bring DoW into this... Remember when the Blood Ravens eliminated the IMPERIAL GUARD in 2 separate campaigns (dark crusade and soul storm) ? oh yea, I do! The entire plot of DoW is built around fudging things to give everybody an excuse to fight each other- because its a real time strategy game- with space marines as the main characters in the campaigns.

The reason why the Eldar fought against the Blood Ravens in the first campaign, is because Gabriel Angelos (bless his heart, I do love him) actually released the demon that he was trying to destroy, despite explicit warnings from the Farseer about what would happen- way to go Gabe. Had the Eldar eliminated the Blood Ravens, and then there was a chance they'd beat the chaos forces and stop the release, if Blood Ravens won... 100% chance of Demon being released... as we saw happen.

I haven't played the DoW II campaign, but I fully recognize its obviously going to bend how things would go to give the space marines more missions against varied opponents.

The Eldar would probably be more willing to ally with the Imperium if both races weren't insanely elitist and xenophobic. also the Eldar do help the Imperium... when its in the Eldar's best interest Ulthwe did intervene on the side of the Imperium in the black crusade, did it not?

Why not? DoW game play is not canonical - but the story is. And for reference Space Marines lost in Soulstorm (the Imperial Guard butcher them), and SM are not always main characters in the game.
And play DoW II, you will like it

**Orlanth**

I call the Tau as superior because they have a more stable knowledge base.

you have to count only sustainable technology, when their Imperium brings its Wunderwaffe to battle it dare not lose any. Tau have no such problems.

However the most telling advantage is that with the exception of psychic based technologies the Tau will simply reverse engineer any Imperial technology they encounter and can then mimic it or build a match for it.

**agnosto**

[Open sequence of a wartorn landscape replete with smoking craters and the hulks of demolished vehicles, two Tau Firewarriors stand on a blasted hillside surveying the aftermath of a bloody skirmish between Tau and Imperium troops]

Firewarrior 1: Wow, these humans sure put up a fight.

Firewarrior 2: [looking at the body of a fallen space marine warrior] But this one wasn't killed with any of our technology.

Firewarrior 1: [Squating next to the space marine and examining a large hole burned through the soldier's armor and body] You're right, it looks like the weapon he was holding self-destructed.

[An eath caste scientist walks up and looks down on the space marine as well]

Scientist: [Shaking his head] Silly humans, when will they learn to stop killing themselves with their own weapons?

[The scientist reaches down and picks up the remains of a plasma pistol from the ground next to the dead space marine and begins shaking his head]

Firewarrior 1: What is it?

Scientist: There's even a dial to turn the intensity down and they never thought to use it.

[Camera pans back and up to the sounds of the firewarriors and scientist laughing]

**IvanTih**

Mr Nobody wrote:*snip*
"Star of Damocles" was from the imperium perspective, and the Tau wipe the floor with them in space combat. Imperium bring reinforcements, finally conquer the planet after exhausting their resources and then realize every single planet is just as powerful.

Andy Hoare novels also contradict every source on range of space combat(he also ignores other pieces of fluff which out Imperial ships above Tau).

Thing is when Tau get too cocky they'll get exterminated.Even Tau say that.

**Ailaros**

agnosto wrote:Scientist: There's even a dial to turn the intensity down and they never thought to use it.

Lol.

I like the idea that there's a dial on the side of it. Something like...

And the tech-priest has permanently broken the dial so it can't be set lower than 7.

To be fair, though, imperial plasma guns can take down hammerheads, while tau plasma weapons never could.

**Kilkrazy**

Actually they could, since the armour on a Hammerhead is 13/12/10.

However Tau weapons have safety interlocks to prevent accidental discharge towards an identified friendly unit.

**Ailaros**

Tau foiled once again!

In any case, plasma guns from the imperium are definitely killier against vehicles, especially when your opponent isn't so generous as to show you rear armor.

**agnosto**

LOL, I love that graphic.

**Mikalichou**

Guys, you made my day

**KamikazeCanuck**

Klawz wrote:Imagine it like this:
In the Tau Empire, everyone has a car.
In the Imperium, 99% of the population has a horse and carriage, and 1% have hovercraft.

This. Also that hovercraft has laserguns!

**Brother Coa**

agnosto wrote:[Open sequence of a wartorn landscape replete with smoking craters and the hulks of demolished vehicles, two Tau Firewarriors stand on a blasted hillside surveying the aftermath of a bloody skirmish between Tau and Imperium troops]

Firewarrior 1: Wow, these humans sure put up a fight.

Firewarrior 2: [looking at the body of a fallen space marine warrior] But this one wasn't killed with any of our technology.

Firewarrior 1: [Squating next to the space marine and examining a large hole burned through the soldier's armor and body] You're right, it looks like the weapon he was holding self-destructed.

[An eath caste scientist walks up and looks down on the space marine as well]

Scientist: [Shaking his head] Silly humans, when will they learn to stop killing themselves with their own weapons?

[The scientist reaches down and picks up the remains of a plasma pistol from the ground next to the dead space marine and begins shaking his head]

Firewarrior 1: What is it?

Scientist: There's even a dial to turn the intensity down and they never thought to use it.

[Camera pans back and up to the sounds of the firewarriors and scientist laughing]

Continuation:

[As they laughing, they hear radio noise from behind them. They slowly turn around]

Firewarrior 1: What is that?

Firewarrior 2: Looks like a single Gue'la trooper on the hill.

Scientist: Why do you have a laser taged to your armor?

[Firewarriors aim at the trooper, and just moment before they take their shot they hear a very loud noise. In the next moment the mist surrounding the trooper is lifted and Imperial Titan, Emperor class, is standing behind him. The Titan charged it's plasma cannons and aiming at Firewarror with laser tag on his armor]

Firewarror 1: [shaking in fear] Ethereal...

Firewarrior 2: [shaking in fear] ...preserve...

Scientist: [enrolled in the pants] ...us.

[Camera pans back and up to the screaming of the firewarriors and scientist as they are in the middle of big blue plasma discharge. In Titan, the Princeps is smiling...

]

**agnosto**

Then the manta flies down and aces the titan. heavy railguns ftw. lol

**Mikalichou**

Or the titan shoots its plasma and explodes

**agnosto**

Mikalichou wrote:Or the titan shoots its plasma and explodes

Or what happens to titans after a broadside unit finishes with them? catastrophic failure and huge asplosion?

**Brother Coa**

agnosto wrote:Then the manta flies down and aces the titan. heavy railguns ftw. lol

For the reference Emperor class Titans have Void shields, so good luck in penetrating that. + it has guns on all sides including AA plasma cannons (as seen in DoW Winter Assault).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mikalichou wrote:Or the titan shoots its plasma and explodes

And Titans are build in such perfection that their weapon cannot overheat and explode. And SM plasma gun is also safe. It's the Guardsman plasmas that are violate, for all other Imperial forces plasma guns and pistols are made to be safer to use.

**KamikazeCanuck**

A Manta killed a Titan on Taros.

**Laodamia**

Brother Coa wrote:
agnosto wrote:Then the manta flies down and aces the titan. heavy railguns ftw. lol

For the reference Emperor class Titans have Void shields, so good luck in penetrating that. + it has guns on all sides including AA plasma cannons (as seen in DoW Winter Assault).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mikalichou wrote:Or the titan shoots its plasma and explodes

And Titans are build in such perfection that their weapon cannot overheat and explode. And SM plasma gun is also safe. It's the Guardsman plasmas that are violate, for all other Imperial forces plasma guns and pistols are made to be safer to use.

+1

A single manta would NEVER be able to take down an emperor class titan. It could do the trick against a warhound or a reaver though.

**agnosto**

Brother Coa wrote:
agnosto wrote:Then the manta flies down and aces the titan. heavy railguns ftw. lol

For the reference Emperor class Titans have Void shields, so good luck in penetrating that. + it has guns on all sides including AA plasma cannons (as seen in DoW Winter Assault).

You obviously don't know how many railguns a like force of Tau would field when facing titans. At 2000 points, I field 5+ I've actually aced a warhound in the first turn of shooting before.

Tau are not afraid of giant robots or spaceships, they ARE afraid of the limitless numbers of IG that can just keep throwing themselves willy-nilly at them ala Siege of Saint Petersburg...

**Brother Coa**

KamikazeCanuck wrote:A Manta killed a Titan on Taros.

An Warhound, smallest and weakest of all the Titans. We are talking about Imperator Titan with Void Shields Heavy Plasma Batteries. The one that destroyed Tyranid Bio-Titan with ine shot.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:
You obviously don't know how many railguns a like force of Tau would field when facing titans. At 2000 points, I field 5+ I've actually aced a warhound in the first turn of shooting before.

Tau are not afraid of giant robots or spaceships, they ARE afraid of the limitless numbers of IG that can just keep throwing themselves willy-nilly at them ala Siege of Saint Petersburg...

Even million Railguns won't help against even one of him. Imperials can hold entire SOLAR SYSTEM with one Imperator.

And they do not fear spaceships? IoM has one bomb that can destroy entire planet and 1 bomb that can eradicate all life on planet.

And Tau are not afraid of Space Marines? They should be after the Black Templar's butcher them at Nimbosa.

**Mikalichou**

Brother Coa wrote: And SM plasma gun is also safe. It's the Guardsman plasmas that are violate, for all other Imperial forces plasma guns and pistols are made to be safer to use.

Oh?

*Opens his SM codex, look p99*

Plasma Cannon - Gets Hot!

Plasma Gun - Gets Hot!

Plasma Pistol - Gets Hot!

Seems exactly like the IG plasma stuff... Or do you mean SM armies are not using SM plasma guns, but are borrowing ours?

**agnosto**

These threads are always fun.

Yes, we know the imperium has the best of everything, including the previously mentioned plot armor. I know, GW should just axe all the other armies and just have the imperium forces fight each other.....since there's no way that any other race could ever hope to prevail against their pristine gloriousness.

**Brother Coa**

Mikalichou wrote:
Seems exactly like the IG plasma stuff... Or do you mean SM armies are not using SM plasma guns, but are borrowing ours?

They are not the same type. Guard use MK 35 'Magnacore' - Cadian Issue, while SM use MK XII "Ragefire" witch is more stable and does not explode like Cadian issue.
One more thing that Tau do not have in their arsenal: Exterminatus bomb.

**Grey Templar**

Marine plasma guns being better is represented by the fact that Gets Hot allows armor saves.

the armor save represents the guns chance of catastrophic failure if the weapon malfunctions.

a Marine, on table, has a 66% chance of not having his gun blow up and hurt him.

a guardsmen only has a 33% chance of the same.

all plasma guns have the same chance of failure, but marines, arguably, have better training with their weapons and are better skilled to stop an overload.

a fail save doesn't mean the bearer is dead, just incapacitated in someway. a multi-wound character can survive his PP malfunctioning and keep fighting. a single wound marine might have had his armor systems fried or his arm plates fused by the heat and he has to retire to the rear to get treatment as he no longer can fight.

guardsmen might simply be suffering some 2nd degree burns.

the victim of a Gets Hot roll isn't always dead. more likely he is getting some serious medical treatment, but not dead. the Gets Hot rule simply represents many different, but related, circumstances that remove the Gets Hopt weapon and it's bearer from the battlefield for the duration of the Battle.

**Mikalichou**

Or maybe SM just have better armors..?

**Kilkrazy**

Brother Coa wrote:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:A Manta killed a Titan on Taros.

An Warhound, smallest and weakest of all the Titans. We are talking about Imperator Titan with Void Shields Heavy Plasma Batteries. The one that destroyed Tyranid Bio-Titan with ine shot.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:
You obviously don't know how many railguns a like force of Tau would field when facing titans. At 2000 points, I field 5+ I've actually aced a warhound in the first turn of shooting before.

Tau are not afraid of giant robots or spaceships, they ARE afraid of the limitless numbers of IG that can just keep throwing themselves willy-nilly at them ala Siege of Saint Petersburg...

Even million Railguns won't help against even one of him. Imperials can hold entire SOLAR SYSTEM with one Imperator.

What a pity they did not put one on Cadia.