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Yeah, I apologize to you guys and especially JOHIRA for coming across as singling him out. One of the most frustrating thing about arguing with JOHIRA, NAVARRO, and MajorTom11 is that you guys are among the very best contributors we have! What chance do I stand?

Kanluwen,

chibihawk for me is a term of endearment. chibis +1!

I don't think Manchu ever meant his primary criticism to be of JOHIRA; more just of the general behavior of folks who post something negative seemingly out of reflex and as an excuse to make a joke. Not that I think any of the three of you are in that category.

malfred wrote:Kanluwen,

chibihawk for me is a term of endearment. chibis +1!

I get that it's a joke.

But at the same time, it's a perfect example of 'not really contributing' to a topic.

I feel the same way about whenever people like Kid_Kyoto post those rambling, half-assed anecdotes about "Green Space Marines" in the 40k Background section.
There's a modicum of "srs business" that's supposed to be happening in threads of a certain nature, and making some inane comment doesn't add anything to the discussion at large. It just encourages the thread to go off topic.

The use of slang and shared jokes might not be contributory to every single thread, but they're a sign that the community communicates enough that it has developed that level of discourse. Every group of people have the relentlessly repetitive jokes that aren't really funny. It's just part of being in a group.

OTOH, consistently derailing thread with aggressive posts attacking those things actually, you know, hurts threads. Just sayin.

Manchu wrote:Yeah, I apologize to you guys and especially JOHIRA for coming across as singling him out. One of the most frustrating thing about arguing with JOHIRA, NAVARRO, and MajorTom11 is that you guys are among the very best contributors we have! What chance do I stand?

I think that it's a matter of (mis)interpreting what you wrote, but it's cool to see that you're able to stand up to it.

Manchu wrote:Yeah, I apologize to you guys and especially JOHIRA for coming across as singling him out. One of the most frustrating thing about arguing with JOHIRA, NAVARRO, and MajorTom11 is that you guys are among the very best contributors we have! What chance do I stand?

No apologies are needed and thanks for thinking so good of me, its mutual I really apreciate what people like you do in the shadows to make dakka happen and work so well for all... I think the beauty of dakka is this really, people can have a adult talk and try to understand each other points without the agravations we see on other forums were mods cant control crowds etc.

Probably like Mannahnin said it was just a bad interpertation, either way I just want you pumped up and kicking some negativim ass out of dakka

Frazzled wrote:

JimBowen38 wrote:I have just read through the comments on the latest Dark Eldar and wow it never fails to amaze me the amount of negativity I see on Dakka so angry I had to post this rant.
Since when has the actual cost of a miniature been linked to its in points cost in the game? Oh and the sculpting critics here is an idea learn to sculpt or at the least wait till you actually see the miniatures before tearing into them photos are often misleading. And if the cost is really crippling your wallet here is another idea get another hobby.

I have a better website for you. I think it will fit your bill nicely.
http://www.barney.com/au/

I seriously couldn't stop laughing.

Kanluwen wrote:

malfred wrote:Kanluwen,

chibihawk for me is a term of endearment. chibis +1!

I get that it's a joke.

But at the same time, it's a perfect example of 'not really contributing' to a topic.

I feel the same way about whenever people like Kid_Kyoto post those rambling, half-assed anecdotes about "Green Space Marines" in the 40k Background section.
There's a modicum of "srs business" that's supposed to be happening in threads of a certain nature, and making some inane comment doesn't add anything to the discussion at large. It just encourages the thread to go off topic.

I agree with you that a post saying nothing more than "chibihawk" would be pretty useless. At least after the first time. But OTOH, I do think that MOST posts actually do contain more than that. If the poster shares their opinion and thoughts, even if they ALSO include a tired joke, IMO that's cool. As Polonius said, old shared jokes and references are part of the community too.

Proportion is key. I have no issue with posts that are pure humor. Kid_Kyoto's written some hysterical stuff, IMO. If his stuff and imitations were the majority of the content in the Background section, I could see that being a real problem. But AFAIK it's not. K_K also posts a good amount of stuff that shows his genuine love for and interest in the GW hobby and background, including his Retro Reviews.

Some of this comes down to personal taste and perception. I think we all agree that overall this is a functional and very enjoyable place to while away the hours. I think we all get impatient with seeing certain stuff "too often", where what exactly constitutes "too often" will vary from person to person. I think Manchu (and even the OP) have a legitimate point that every so often some kinds of negativity and fighting between posters start to feel a bit relentless, and it's not bad to have a reminder for everyone to try focusing on the positives where you can, and try not to get into a bad habit of being what triggerbaby so vividly described as a "pickled pork turd".

Mannahnin wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

malfred wrote:Kanluwen,

chibihawk for me is a term of endearment. chibis +1!

I get that it's a joke.

But at the same time, it's a perfect example of 'not really contributing' to a topic.

I feel the same way about whenever people like Kid_Kyoto post those rambling, half-assed anecdotes about "Green Space Marines" in the 40k Background section.
There's a modicum of "srs business" that's supposed to be happening in threads of a certain nature, and making some inane comment doesn't add anything to the discussion at large. It just encourages the thread to go off topic.

I agree with you that a post saying nothing more than "chibihawk" would be pretty useless. At least after the first time. But OTOH, I do think that MOST posts actually do contain more than that. If the poster shares their opinion and thoughts, even if they ALSO include a tired joke, IMO that's cool. As Polonius said, old shared jokes and references are part of the community too.

Shared jokes and oblique references are part of a group setting, not necessarily a community. It's very much a case of "that guy" at your FLGS who spouts off 4chan memes like they're going out of style.

Proportion is key. I have no issue with posts that are pure humor. Kid_Kyoto's written some hysterical stuff, IMO. If his stuff and imitations were the majority of the content in the Background section, I could see that being a real problem. But AFAIK it's not. K_K also posts a good amount of stuff that shows his genuine love for and interest in the GW hobby and background, including his Retro Reviews.

Nor do I have problems with posts that are pure humor...but they don't necessarily belong in certain threads/sections.

To use an example: There's a thread going on in 40k background about the "Blood Ravens Primarch".
On the very first page, we have a Kyotoism about Corax being knocked up by Sanguinius.

For 40k General or Off-Topic?
That's fine.

40k Background?
That's not fine.

So yellow flag it, and a moderator will check if it should be moved to the General Discussion forum.

What's the point now? It's been quoted repeatedly throughout the thread.

What's the point of complaining about it, then?

Moderators can't read every post on the site. We rely on users to pick up a lot of problems.

Kilkrazy wrote:What's the point of complaining about it, then?

To make it known that a moderator is violating the rules of a specific section that is supposedly policed constantly?

Moderators can't read every post on the site. We rely on users to pick up a lot of problems.

And moderators set the tone of discussion on a site. It's inappropriate for Kyoto to be doing that in a section that's supposed to be all about the 'serious discussion'. It gives an idea of acceptability that shouldn't be given, and could lead right back to 40k background getting saturated with those stupid "40k vs XXXXX" threads or "Primarch Rankings!"and whatnot.

Kanluwen wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:What's the point of complaining about it, then?

To make it known that a moderator is violating the rules of a specific section that is supposedly policed constantly?

Moderators can't read every post on the site. We rely on users to pick up a lot of problems.

And moderators set the tone of discussion on a site. It's inappropriate for Kyoto to be doing that in a section that's supposed to be all about the 'serious discussion'. It gives an idea of acceptability that shouldn't be given, and could lead right back to 40k background getting saturated with those stupid "40k vs XXXXX" threads or "Primarch Rankings!"and whatnot.

this thread is about dakka on the whole "apparently" being neative- not a thread to b*tch about certain individuals. If you want to talk about kyoto that much, make your own rant thread about it.

Kan does make a reasonable point, albiet in a round about way: flagging a moderators posts often seems pointless.

Obviously the dakka cone of silence would protect mods just as much as other users. Still, it seems meaningless to flag a post only to have that poster respond.

I agree completely. I've made threads before that people just rip into, even if it's just for fun. People hate you if you ask for 1 measly point cost of 1 unit.

It goes on..

Do moderators make mistakes?

Of course we do. We are not Commander Data.

Does it do any good to pick on one example, which no-one bothered to complain about when it would have done some good?

No.

If someone has an issue with a particular moderator's response to a complaint, they should seek an opinion from another moderator, and ultimately from webmaster@dakkadakka.com.

Kilkrazy wrote:Do moderators make mistakes?

Of course we do. We are not Commander Data.

Does it do any good to pick on one example, which no-one bothered to complain about when it would have done some good?

No.

If someone has an issue with a particular moderator's response to a complaint, they should seek an opinion from another moderator, and ultimately from webmaster@dakkadakka.com.

Of course moderators can make mistakes. I'm not saying we need to burn him at the stake for cracking a joke in a thread.

What I am, however, saying is that moderators set the tone of a site when it comes to the rules and how they're enforced. Moderators aren't just "one of the guys", even if they're not posting in red and no matter how much they consider themselves as such.

Users see that [MOD] title on a user in a thread cracking wise and intentional of the mod's post or not, things can escalate from there because users might think "Well a mod's doing it, so it's okay!".

It sets a bad example, even if "no one bothered to complain about when it would have done some good". I only just started reading through the thread today and that was the first thing I noticed on the first page, and there's some 5+ posts regarding it throughout the thread.

Kanluwen wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Do moderators make mistakes?

Of course we do. We are not Commander Data.

Does it do any good to pick on one example, which no-one bothered to complain about when it would have done some good?

No.

If someone has an issue with a particular moderator's response to a complaint, they should seek an opinion from another moderator, and ultimately from webmaster@dakkadakka.com.

Of course moderators can make mistakes. I'm not saying we need to burn him at the stake for cracking a joke in a thread.

What I am, however, saying is that moderators set the tone of a site when it comes to the rules and how they're enforced. Moderators aren't just "one of the guys", even if they're not posting in red and no matter how much they consider themselves as such.

Users see that [MOD] title on a user in a thread cracking wise and intentional of the mod's post or not, things can escalate from there because users might think "Well a mod's doing it, so it's okay!".

It sets a bad example, even if "no one bothered to complain about when it would have done some good". I only just started reading through the thread today and that was the first thing I noticed on the first page, and there's some 5+ posts regarding it throughout the thread.

quotes/links?
This thread is OT. This is about the whole of dakka, not just a MOD or all the MODs. Don't get into the blame game here.

Kanluwen wrote:
Users see that [MOD] title on a user in a thread cracking wise and intentional of the mod's post or not, things can escalate from there because users might think "Well a mod's doing it, so it's okay!".
.

Thats a hipotetical situation... things can escalate? yes... but did they? IF it did I bet theres more MODs to contain it... OR maybe its a just a style of posting that you dont like in particular but everyone else is ok with?

All I know is that the overall balance here is good and its set both by mods and users

If there's a question about the way discussions are carried out and what tone
should be set, the official channel for that would be to post it in Nuts and Bolts
(the suggestions forum) or to pm yakface/lego directly.

I used to yellow triangle mods. Look where that got me.

shrike wrote:quotes/links?
This thread is OT. This is about the whole of dakka, not just a MOD or all the MODs. Don't get into the blame game here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/343168.page

TLDR version, poster asks a question about the Blood Ravens possible primarch/geneseed and on the first page, after some in depth and civil discussion from various pieces of lore, you have a moderator actively try to derail that discussion with gibberish about homosexual primarchs making babies or some such nonsense.

I don't think that example really makes Dakka a negative place in the sense that OP was thinking, but it is kind of true that it sets a tone (ie, people quoting his garbage and hijacking the thread with further attempts at crass humor where there were fans discussing their theories and such).

I facepalmed after reading it and ignored it, like most of his more inane posts, but I'm not really a fan of censorship and can honestly say that the only time I may hit a report button is for spam bots.

The question in the thread's OP was answered as well as it could have been.

The thread served its purpose and was also quite amusing. I consider it to be >9000 as far as threads are concerned.

In the same way that moderators don't read all the posts, moderators don't read all moderators' posts either.

I can only repeat that if someone thinks a post is off topic or something, even if it is from a moderator, he should yellow flag it.

Anyway, we seem to have exhausted this topic now, so I shall lock the th