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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Flashman wrote:Have we all reached a happy place now or shall we go on for another 10 pages?

Nice weiner dogs Frazz


TBone and the Shanker baby! Did I mention I had to chase a fighting rooster out of my house yesterday. I must admit that was not one of the top 500 things I had anticipated doing last night.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






and we've had similair discussions in the video games subforum. Perhaps its not really "Things were so much better back in the day" but that you were a kid and everything seems cooler when your a kid. Generally cynacism has an inverse proportion to age....or something like that.

 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

kronk wrote:His face looks like a baboon's ass.


If you are referring to Kilkrazy, his avatar is technically a Mandrill, not a baboon.
They are related, but not the same.

Baboons don't have the colourful bits on their faces - but both tend to have a red arse - and the females more prominently.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





Georgia,just outside Atlanta

Manchu wrote:@FITZZ: I have to say, it was never as good then as some remember and it's not as bad now as some imagine. If price outsrtips quality in a person's mind they don't need to attribute it to GW personally persecuting them (or failing to read their mind). You can't tell me that upon reading a new release thread you've never thought "that's awesome, maybe a bit pricey, and I'm sure username: So-And-So will be right over to explain exactly why this is the worst thing ever done to anyone by anyone in the history of everything." Now, I'm not saying that username: The-Other-One won't come along to fight him to the bitter end. They're both yo-yo's.


You make some very good points Manchu,and of course GW probably wasn't really as good as I thought it was 12 years ago...but it certainly seemed as though GW cared about it's customers a lot more back then...again,perhaps I'm seeing things through a nostalgic fog.


"I'll tell you one thing that every good soldier knows! The only thing that counts in the end is power! Naked merciless force!" .-Ursus.

I am Red/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
<small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>

I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
 
   
Made in pt
Using Object Source Lighting







Sidstyler wrote:Well yeah, the price is stupid, I agree with that. And I can see why that would have some people asking "That's it?".

But without taking price into account, I don't really see why people expected the razorwings to be really interesting models. Judging from the codex entry it was going to be something small and spammable, like nurglings or jungle swarms or rippers, and none of those are all that detailed. I think they look pretty good for what they are.

They just need to cost half as much.


Well to be honest with you I do look at many models just from a sculptors prespective and sometimes I dont even care if proportions are wrong if the concept is deadly cool... In this last batch of GW xenos I must say its abit of a mehhh but the crows to me are something very usefull for many diferent modeling projects... generic is good if usefull.

chromedog wrote:
kronk wrote:His face looks like a baboon's ass.


If you are referring to Kilkrazy, his avatar is technically a Mandrill, not a baboon.
They are related, but not the same.

Baboons don't have the colourful bits on their faces - but both tend to have a red arse - and the females more prominently.


I find your knowledge about female baboon butts quite disturbing

   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando





Central Pa

chromedog wrote:but both tend to have a red arse - and the females more prominently.

how do you know this?
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Zoo trips at school.

I have a capacious memory for meaningless trivia.

Hence why I play wargames.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in gb
Noble of the Alter Kindred




United Kingdom

So I have to like everything GW produces or keep my gob shut as well as not play the game cos I'm on the wrong side of the tracks.

I have criticised the models for the simple reason I don't like them.
I have not criticised any one for liking them and expect the gesture to be reciprocated.

There is no conspiracy theory. GW dish out some crap and we are entitled to call it that.
They may not be as bad as people make out sometimes but they ain't cowin perfect either. But now we are also at fault for commending GW if we see something praiseworthy? hmmm

 
   
Made in ca
Plastictrees





Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:So I have to like everything GW produces or keep my gob shut as well as not play the game cos I'm on the wrong side of the tracks.

I have criticised the models for the simple reason I don't like them.
I have not criticised any one for liking them and expect the gesture to be reciprocated.

There is no conspiracy theory. GW dish out some crap and we are entitled to call it that.
They may not be as bad as people make out sometimes but they ain't cowin perfect either. But now we are also at fault for commending GW if we see something praiseworthy? hmmm


Everyone had settled down and was about to enjoy some drinks and pie and you had to run into the room yelling and tip the table over.
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Hit quote instead of edit.

disregard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/18 05:44:52


I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in gb
Noble of the Alter Kindred




United Kingdom

I do apologise for pissing on your victuals plastic old fruit.
Skipped the last two pages as I didn't think I was in need of the zoology as I was already aware of the distinction between a baboon's arse and a weiner.

(that was the discussion wasn't it?)

 
   
Made in jp
Hacking Shang Jí






Manchu wrote:But there is also a relaible cadre of "haters" around here who will find something wrong with anything that GW does up until you call them on it. And then, just to be contrary and show how naive you are, they will bring up something they like about GW or say "hey, I love this game but GW hates me."


Yeah, how dare those guys not conform to your stereotype. Who do they think they are, anyway?



I think a lot of you are not getting what the point of criticism is. From where I sit on BD, very few people criticize because they hate GW. A bunch of us don't sit around in a doom fortress, stroking our beards and planning how to ruin GW's next release. We criticize because we know that GW (and actually most model makers in general) could do way better than they are. It's the same reason people criticize restaurants or films or books. Granted, most of us aren't getting paid for doing it yet and maybe most of you don't even want to hear the criticism, but that's what is driving a lot of people I see on BD. Look at what most model makers out there are pushing and compare them to truly exceptional miniatures from companies like Studio McVey and Red Box Games and it's obvious there is a huge gap in quality.

There is nothing wrong with pointing that gap out. There is nothing wrong with showing where GW could do better. Just because you are satisfied with a miniature doesn't mean it's the pinnacle of the sculpting craft, and just because you are willing to pay for it does not mean it must be protected from criticism- nor for that matter does that mean criticism of the miniature applies to you. Trust me- I'm someone who likes eating at Arby's after all.

This is all getting just a bit too much like the console wars for my liking. Buying a product from a company is not a declaration of allegiance with that company. If you're unwilling to tolerate hearing that other people don't like everything GW puts out, I hope you're happy with Razorgors and Chibi-hawks. Because if no one ever says anything critical of GW, they don't have any reason to produce anything better.

"White Lions: They're Better Than Cancer!" is not exactly a compelling marketing slogan. - AlexHolker 
   
Made in pt
Using Object Source Lighting







JOHIRA wrote:
This is all getting just a bit too much like the console wars for my liking. Buying a product from a company is not a declaration of allegiance with that company.


Yes a bit and my stance on pointless Console wars is I dont care about brands or companies I care about THE games... in wargamming its the same I dont care about the companies but rather about THE miniatures.

A miniature stinker is a stinker and if it has a stupid price tag its a extra stinky load of metal.

Quality wise you currently have a lot of small companies delivering soooooo much better product... if the GW prices raised to well above standart inflation yet their quality is not as good as the small joe minis then we have a problem and people complain.

   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel







plastictrees wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:So I have to like everything GW produces or keep my gob shut as well as not play the game cos I'm on the wrong side of the tracks.

I have criticised the models for the simple reason I don't like them.
I have not criticised any one for liking them and expect the gesture to be reciprocated.

There is no conspiracy theory. GW dish out some crap and we are entitled to call it that.
They may not be as bad as people make out sometimes but they ain't cowin perfect either. But now we are also at fault for commending GW if we see something praiseworthy? hmmm


Everyone had settled down and was about to enjoy some drinks and pie and you had to run into the room yelling and tip the table over.


Awesome, I am literally wetting myself. I have a mental image of Chibi-Bodge as a little Ninja Cat, leaping in screaming "I HATE PIE....BANZAI!". Seriously WTF did this come from its boardline "Monty Python Surrealism"..

Back on track...I am getting a bit pevv'ed with people trolling and Flaming and generally trying to put the other man down. There must be a place for Free, reasonable speech, evidence based and rational without descending into partisan "I hate Eldar" or "I hate SM" or "I love Orks" also criticism if done well is balanced and caveated and if someone plays devils advocate often I have changed or modified my views to take account of particularly well honed responses to my posts.
I realised something a few days ago, something I should have done along time ago I am going to become a [DCM]. It makes sense, people are not going to pay hard cash for the priviledge of flaming or troliing, it gets you access to some extra content and then we can have an adult (although tongue occassionally in cheek without it turning into a playground fight between two 5 year olds or two baldmen fighting over a combe. ) I have contributed and taken alot from Dakka but now I should make the leap and try to help out.


Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest! 
   
Made in ca
Blood Angel Chapter Master with Wings






Sunny SoCal

This thread was pure flame bait from the beginning. OP, you should just stay away from the Internet in general if you get upset reading other peoples opinions, you don't seem to enjoy people with different ideas to your own.

In fact, probably best to pull the phone out of the wall too and lock your doors lol.

My opinion of the new models was lukewarm but generally falls under your description of 'negative'. Thing is, it wasn't negativity that spurred me to post my thought on that thread, just honesty. What do you think happens exactly? That people stay up all nights fir weeks and months frothing at the mouth just dying to hate on new gw minis no matter what lol? Do you not notice how many people like the stuff too? Do you not notice the general consensus that they are pricey and instead of skulking off to a corner for a good cry actually look at the numbers and consider they may be right?

I won't even get started on your you need to be a sculptor to have an opinion on sculpting comment...

All in all, stop being so sensitive and toughen up, or you are absolutely not going to enjoy this or any other forum,,,,,

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/18 12:09:08


   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






i dont think its all that negative as much as the same arguments get rehashed a dozen times and they get tiring to have to see. Though seeing half the updates from gw being met with 'this sucks' followed by the inevitable discussion on gw business practice is irritating. There are quite a few people, and mods, who post things that are strictly negative without actually contributing in the thread in any way other than making themselves looking like said baboon's arse. Dakka members have the odd ability to both be easily distracted and get off-topic and the ability to obsessively discuss issues over several threads at the same time. That or I keep clicking the same thread and think its a different one, stranger things have happened to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/18 14:07:34


Angels of Acquittance 1,000 pts 27-8-10
Menoth 15 pts 0-0-0
Dwarves 1,000 pts 3-1-0
 Sigvatr wrote:
. Necrons should be an army of robots, not an army of flying French bakery.



 
   
Made in pt
Using Object Source Lighting







Luco wrote: stranger things have happened to me.


Like joining a forum named dakka that you dont seem to like some mods and quite a few people, and get irritated with half gw news topics and yet manage to have 500 posts under a year? Yeah I can see "strange" there.

   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot






Yea that was kinda weird.
I wouldn't say I don't like them as a whole, just some of the things they do I find irksome and its kinda the topic so I tossed it in.

Angels of Acquittance 1,000 pts 27-8-10
Menoth 15 pts 0-0-0
Dwarves 1,000 pts 3-1-0
 Sigvatr wrote:
. Necrons should be an army of robots, not an army of flying French bakery.



 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Many folks posted thoughtful rebuttals which helped the OP reexamine the issue and realize he was out of line. That's much more productive than being nasty or telling him to get off the site. Doing so just promulgates the perception of negativity that the OP started with.


A sugar cube of sanity in a tea cup full of storm.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

After reading a few more posts, I realized that I left something out of my first analysis: the internet tends to make a lot people think they could do any given thing better than the people who actually do that thing. For some people, it's not enough to say reasonable things like "I don't like that sculpt" (more like "that looks like a baboon's ass") or "I really can't afford that" (more like "who the feth do they think they are?") -- they need to justify themselves by claiming some kind of business acumen or insider knowledge. This is what I was referring to as baseless speculation. There are a few people around here who I happen to know run successful businesses related to wargaming or have access to actual figures and -- oddly enough -- they are NEVER the people who go on and on about how "GW is crazy not to do it exactly like I would." This is something more than coincidence, I reckon.

As I get older, I find that I am becoming more willing to pass over the bad and be in awe of the good. I like being as open as possible to the good things. So when a new model is released, I don't look to be the cool guy who points out the flaws. I don't feel "entitled," as some people here do, to complain about the models. What does that even mean? Everyone has a right to their opinion -- do they have a right to report it to everyone else? The answer is no but we allow it here on Dakka, at least when it comes to constantly belittling "faceless corporate giant" GW. We're more protective of our individual users. You can't go into someone's plog and say "this is worthless gak" or, in the case of a commission painter, "you're fething crazy if you expect me to pay for that!" But this same overtly hostile attitude is considered an entitlement (!) when it comes to GW.

Whatever. I'm sure this post will be criticized with the same OTT bs: "So we're not allowed to call GW on doing a bad job? We're supposed to be content to love whatever they do?" Obviously not. Get a fething grip.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

Frazzled wrote:I'm saddened by the lack of weiner dogs in this thread.


Belle, Princess of Dachshunds, approves.


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in jp
Hacking Shang Jí






Manchu wrote:So when a new model is released, I don't look to be the cool guy who points out the flaws.


That's all well and good, but if you think people are pointing out flaws to be "cool", I think you're reading things that aren't there. Being picky about 28mm mandollies is not a particularly easy route to fortune and groupies.


"White Lions: They're Better Than Cancer!" is not exactly a compelling marketing slogan. - AlexHolker 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

I just read what you posted in the other thread:
JOHIRA wrote:But see, I don't criticise models to fit you guys' needs. I do it to fit mine.
I don't understand this attitude. Why bother posting in a thread when you are not interested in adding to what is actually being discussed? Is your opinion truly of such burning, urgent importance to the Dakka community? Either you have a very high opinion of yourself and how immensely witty you are or you're just participating in the culture that OP here was complaining of. I assume it is the latter. For example, I can understand your critique that the fiend lacks motion and using the trollkin as an counterexample is entirely appropriate. But why the attitude? The implication is that people who do not share your aesthetic are inferior. This is not saying that "you are not allowed to not like things" or even "you are not allowed to explain your opinions."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
JOHIRA wrote:Being picky about 28mm mandollies is not a particularly easy route to fortune and groupies.
No but that's not the goal. The goal is to set oneself up (foremost in one's own mind) as the authority, the vet, the "grognard."

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/02/18 15:45:17


   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

chromedog wrote:I have a capacious memory for meaningless trivia.


Oh God - you too? It drives me nuts. I remember tiny rules details, but my father's Birthday? Nope...

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Noble of the Alter Kindred




United Kingdom

Awesome, I am literally wetting myself. I have a mental image of Chibi-Bodge as a little Ninja Cat, leaping in screaming "I HATE PIE....BANZAI!". Seriously WTF did this come from its boardline "Monty Python Surrealism"..


If I had anythimg like that sort of dexterity and energy I wouldn't even be on Dakka or pissing about with toy soldiers.
I don't have sufficient hatred of anything let alone pie to behave in such a manner.
Apart from which I am very partial to several slices of pie.
The hyperbole is misguided.


Having already apologised for not bothering to read the 2 pages of off topic silliness, maybe I need to apologise for missing the thread and joining in late.
I humbly beg forgiveness for missing the thread from its glorious inception and my late arrival. I was just responsing to the OP and some of the subsequent comments.

Hope you are not literally wetting yourself mate
I believe adult incontinence pads are available

Whatever. I'm sure this post will be criticized with the same OTT bs: "So we're not allowed to call GW on doing a bad job? We're supposed to be content to love whatever they do?" Obviously not. Get a fething grip.

Hmm

Calling that over the top fething bs indicates you are the chap losing the plot old bean.
How wonderfully magnanimuous of you to see only the gem and not the flaws of a miniature figure.
Pity you can't do the same for fellow members of this forum.

If it is obviious we don't have to be content with a product why are you being so censorious?

It is a forum
people air there grievances and disappointments
They discuss their opinions on the merits of otherwise of hobby products
It's what people do on forums.
Sorry to state the bleeding obvious but in your glowing self eulogy you seem to have forgotten this.


 
   
Made in jp
Hacking Shang Jí






Manchu wrote:Why bother posting in a thread when you are not interested in adding to what is actually being discussed?


I am interested in what's being discussed. That doesn't mean I have to share the same opinions as everyone else who is part of the discussion.

Is your opinion truly of such burning, urgent importance to the Dakka community? Either you have a very high opinion of yourself and how immensely witty you are or you're just participating in the culture that OP here was complaining of. I assume it is the latter.


Then you're definitely reading things into my posts that I never conveyed. There are lots of reasons to post criticism apart from being a narcicist and tearing down GW just for the sake of tearing them down.

It may shock you to hear this, but I don't want GW to collapse. I want them to do well. By delivering good product.

The implication is that people who do not share your aesthetic are inferior.


You've come up with that implication on your own then. I've never said nor implied anything critical of anyone else on Dakka. This is the "Console Wars" mentality I mentioned earlier... we should be able to criticize GW products without people who like that particular product assuming we're criticizing them. Do be honest, it sounds an awful lot like you've decided a bunch of things about what I think just because I've criticized some GW product, which is an odd thing to hear.

You know, I used to absolutely love the previous plastic DE cold ones. The snub-nosed crocodillian ones. It seems like no one else did. I remember practically any time those models came up, they got heaps of criticism for being unimpressive. But I liked them, because they looked more natural than any other cold one GW has produced. Should I have taken offense, that models I liked were made fun of? Of course not. What I liked was different from the crowd. Other people had every right to complain about models they didn't want to buy, just as I had the right to defend them. That's what message boards are all about.

"White Lions: They're Better Than Cancer!" is not exactly a compelling marketing slogan. - AlexHolker 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

@chibi: Being frustrated that the hyperbole tends to the negative is not being censorious. As for being magnanimous to fellow users, you really have no idea. In your scathing mistatement of my "glowing self eulogy", you missed the example I gave of not allowing people to be as rude to individual users as they are towards GW. Not the first time you've chosen to debate points you've made up ratehr than the ones actually stated.

@JOHIRA: Maybe I am reading into your posts. I see that counterargument a lot. But don't forget: we've both been posting here for a while. I've read a lot of posts from you and others, not just the specific one we're talking about now.

As I predicted "have a better attitude and be polite" has been warped into "everyone must agree with me and we must all fall on our knees before GW." :deep breath: I love the smell of internets in the morning.

   
Made in ca
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






Well at least I learned the word "grognard". Though I'm sure I will never use it in real life.

 
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




Monarchy of TBD

You may, when the greeps flock to the north in their migration.

Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Platuan4th wrote:
Frazzled wrote:I'm saddened by the lack of weiner dogs in this thread.


Belle, Princess of Dachshunds, approves.



Looks like another weiner legionnaire, alert like a coiled spring of weiner dog doom, ready to strike!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
 
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