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MikeMcSomething wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I didn't say anything about "setting fire to plastic in an enclosed space"

Kanluwen wrote:Even just a few seconds of exposure to melting plastic while you're not wearing a respirator/dust mask or operating in a well-ventilated area

Aw, look. He's trying to play "mistaken intent".

"Not operating in a well-ventilated area" can mean anything. You can be inside of the biggest room in the world with a fan running and it can be "improperly ventilated" for something like melting plastic.

Try harder.

Hmm, this seems demoralizing but I will continue to hope for the best.

I also just ran out an bought a bunch of metal kits so the scare tactic seems to be working

It also seems that many people here have the wrong conception when it comes to working with resin, many people wear a dust mask and wet files/saws, I built a resin vehicle from FW recently and I simply sawed off a couple of big pieces of flash with a fine saw in a well ventilated room, there was some dust but it was easily cleaned up with a vacuum. Dust is an issue on larger models but as long as you aren't cutting it into fine lines and snorting it off your hobby table you will be fine.

Kanluwen wrote:

MikeMcSomething wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I didn't say anything about "setting fire to plastic in an enclosed space"

Kanluwen wrote:Even just a few seconds of exposure to melting plastic while you're not wearing a respirator/dust mask or operating in a well-ventilated area

Aw, look. He's trying to play "mistaken intent".

"Not operating in a well-ventilated area" can mean anything. You can be inside of the biggest room in the world with a fan running and it can be "improperly ventilated" for something like melting plastic.

Try harder.

So now your point has gone from 'resin is safe because hamburgers are dangerous' to 'resin is safe because big spaces can be improperly ventilated too"?

I would address the whole "internet tough guy on a forum about plastic toy men" thing but I'll just assume for the sake of goodwill that it was a momentary lapse on your part, and you aren't trying to actually come across as a thug attempting to save us from the dangers of cancer-causing french fries and aircraft hangars that don't have enough ceiling fans in them.

No, my point is and always has been
"If you don't do things correctly anything is unsafe".

So I'm a little confused as to what this means (I'm kind of new to games workshops games). Does this mean that a whole ton of models will all of a sudden not be able to be purchased anywhere, or they are simply replacing the metal models with resin? Or do we not know? Sorry if this is a stupid question :/

mazik765 wrote:So I'm a little confused as to what this means (I'm kind of new to games workshops games). Does this mean that a whole ton of models will all of a sudden not be able to be purchased anywhere, or they are simply replacing the metal models with resin? Or do we not know? Sorry if this is a stupid question :/

Short answer?
We don't actually know.

But it looks like they're moving towards it.
It doesn't mean that you won't be able to buy a ton of models suddenly out of the blue. What we're looking at is likely a 'selldown' where they're trying to get rid of the excess stock.

Kanluwen wrote:No, my point is and always has been
"If you don't do things correctly anything is unsafe".

People are saying "Driving drunk is more dangerous than just driving" and you're saying "Well yeah anything can be dangerous (so let's drive drunk!)" which goes back to my original post (the one you said you ignored, I'll repost the relevant bit for you) -

MikeMcSomething wrote:that's not really saying much.

And your point is still what?

Or are you just here to participate in more of this "SKY IS FALLING! SKY IS FALLING! SKY IS FALLING!" resin stuff?

I'm with the "GW will probably use a better(safer and closer to plastic) resin mix and adopt better quality control measures than Forgeworld" crowd. I just don't think saying "Well applejuice can give you cancer too!" is really helping things along. On some level I'm sure you agree with that.

MikeMcSomething wrote:I'm with the "GW will probably use a better(safer and closer to plastic) resin mix and adopt better quality control measures than Forgeworld" crowd.

It's likely going to be the same mix as Privateer.

I just don't think saying "Well applejuice can give you cancer too!" is really helping things along. On some level I'm sure you agree with that.

Oh no doubt. I was just using it as an example of how things used in certain circumstances, and furthermore used improperly, can lead to hazardous results.

I don't think the list of models being disontinued is a bit long and some of the things being discontinued seems abit far fetched

I miss the days when I could walk into a FLGS and find almost everything I needed or wanted. And when I could order the bitZ I needed from GW... without having to buy a whole kit.
For me this is frustrating, but nowhere near as much of one as when those two abilities went extinct.

Kanluwen wrote:No, my point is and always has been
"If you don't do things correctly anything is unsafe".

Go drink water, lots and lots of water. Go drink water correctly, over and over, for a few hours. Please.

JoeyHeadwounds wrote:I miss the days when I could walk into a FLGS and find almost everything I needed or wanted. And when I could order the bitZ I needed from GW... without having to buy a whole kit.
For me this is frustrating, but nowhere near as much of one as when those two abilities went extinct.

Heh, you're frustrated?)

Try being the guy who's living depends on a supply of stuff to sell. That list of stuff going away cripples a stores ability to sell many armies. It better come back fast in some format.

A considerable amount of the eldar range would be gone..... I doubt they would stop selling it compleatly.

Grey Knight Luke wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:No, my point is and always has been
"If you don't do things correctly anything is unsafe".

Go drink water, lots and lots of water. Go drink water correctly, over and over, for a few hours. Please.

Go walk correctly. Go walk correctly for hours and hours. And then come back when you can offer a response to a post without willfully disregarding the point behind it


Also, Kan is right. People seem to be confusing the fact that resin comes in different quality than that which is offered by FW. If GW does switch to resin, and I'm not convinced they are, they will most certainly have higher quality than FW. I've built plenty of FW models and the safety issue is minute, even just taking the most basic precautions. It's really no different than handling a hobby knife incorrectly, except you won't see the effects of resin dust inhalation immediately.

Lastly, the sky is falling. GW is finished. Everyone freak out and panic.

@mikhaila- Trust me when I say that I fully understand what you're saying. I know that No Product=No Customers=Closed Stores.
It was not my intent to slight anyone by not mentioning the business side of this issue. I was only speaking from the hobbyists point of view.

Cadaver wrote:

Grey Knight Luke wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:No, my point is and always has been
"If you don't do things correctly anything is unsafe".

Go drink water, lots and lots of water. Go drink water correctly, over and over, for a few hours. Please.

Go walk correctly. Go walk correctly for hours and hours. And then come back when you can offer a response to a post without willfully disregarding the point behind it.

I understand his point, I just feel he has been trolling this thread for a while now and its bothering me. Instead of saying everything is unsafe he should consider how many people that buy this product are going to really abide by the safety protocols. Unless he considers what those percentages are really going to be, his theoretical nonsense is just that

Grey Knight Luke wrote:

Cadaver wrote:

Grey Knight Luke wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:No, my point is and always has been
"If you don't do things correctly anything is unsafe".

Go drink water, lots and lots of water. Go drink water correctly, over and over, for a few hours. Please.

Go walk correctly. Go walk correctly for hours and hours. And then come back when you can offer a response to a post without willfully disregarding the point behind it.

I understand his point, I just feel he has been trolling this thread for a while now and its bothering me. Instead of saying everything is unsafe he should consider how many people that buy this product are going to really abide by the safety protocols. Unless he considers what those percentages are really going to be, his theoretical nonsense is just that

I don't think he's trolling at all. He's offering a reasonable response to the people freaking out about, what is so far nothing more than a completely unconfirmed rumor. Resin is not that dangerous. GW has sold resin products before without issue. It's very likely, if true, the material will be of better and safer quality than FW resin, which most people are basing their resin modeling experience off of.

asmith wrote:A switch to resin casts from china maybe? That would help to explain how it could possibly be a cost savings.

Edit: Dude you can't get equal detail out of plastic injection molding as you can resin. The tooling prohibits it.

Metal and resin can be cast in the same tools. but resin will flow better than metal (and more importantly for longer) so it will be able to pick up more intricate detailing. Resin is the most expensive to do on a per piece basis but has the least amount of capital involved. Metal is in the middle and plastic injection is the highest capital investment but the lowest piece part price. (at least it should be, this is the part I don't understand, could metal prices be so high that it outweighs the increased cycle time of resin? Doesn't seem likely to me)

as for detailing it also follows the same trend, resin has the highest detail metal in the middle and plastic the least. I agree with you that plastic is capable of picking up an equal amount of detail as resin, but the way the tooling works prohibits you from practically achieving the same amount of detail.

Agreed on all points, except your statement on injection molding. The pellets are heated to a liquid base then injected in the mold to fill every nook and cranny. The company I work for, and have for 13+ years, makes toys and model kits for companies like Medicom, DC Direct, American McGees Alice to name a few off the top of my head. I think I know what I am talking about.

Hmm - it is a strange move but consider this, GW know what sells and how fast it sells. They've probably looked at what they have in stock (and I would guess they have A LOT of most things, maybe not 'Crons but hey) and gone

"Right, we don't sell a ton of this this and this so let's put them on the back burner until we sort this resin lark out"

They wouldn't cripple themselves on purpose and surely have had this planned for many months since metal prices have gone through the roof.

I just wish they'd redo the Eldar jetbikes. At the very least the fugly helmets should go.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:2. The price remains or improves.

Doubt it. GW simply increases it's profit margin by reducing variable costs. prices will never "improve", they only increase.

tryanotherone wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:If they started manufacturing in China, the recasts would start appearing within weeks of the initial releases.

At least the stuff would be a lot cheaper.

Bring on the Ebay recasts!

TobyDog wrote:

asmith wrote:I thought they did FW in china already?

It was closed at the end of the last fiscal quarter...
They were loosing money on it.

How do you lose money on anything from China?

Oh wait... Ebay recasts

Grey Knight Luke wrote:
Instead of saying everything is unsafe he should consider how many people that buy this product are going to really abide by the safety protocols.

Whose fault is it if you choose not to abide by the safety protocols?

Unless he considers what those percentages are really going to be, his theoretical nonsense is just that

At the same time, assuming that everyone is going to not going to have safety precautions or do any kind of research into how to work with resin(this assumption really only works with the idea that GW will use FW's method, and not Tamiya or Dragon or AFV Club Taiwan's methods used in scale armour/infantry kits where there's basically no flash) is "theoretical nonsense" as well, Grey Knight Luke.

Apologies in advance if I break Dakka rule number 1.

I though this thread was about The GW products being pulled not the merits of resin vs metal vs plastic.

If thats what you want to discuss then surely punt it on to another thread instead of crapping over each other about which is best here.

Or even better start your own thread "Heavy metal versus plastic fantastic versus resin (raising)the dead" or something. (My poor attempt at humour). Pick one and explain why you think its the best modelling material or whatever.

And if health and safety means so much to you. Or you would like to enlighten the dakka (and possibly wider community), maybe do an article or tutorial on the safe ways to work with resin and other modelling materials.

Quite frankly this thread is getting bogged down in the back and forth between a few people pushing the same arguments using different words and sometimes going to stupid, extreme lengths just to get the last word in. It is farcical.

So enough of the "resin is deadly" crap, I do not believe that this is what this thread was set up for. We all should know that there are inherent risks in everything we do and it is up to us to either do things safely or go 3 sheets to the wind. It's called personal preference

Either stick to topic or start a new therad!!!

GW removing these models entirely = unlikely
GW using direct only sales = possible
GW using plastics the way they extolled the use of plastics on the new high elves for blood island = likely
GW using resin = possible.

How will any of this affect me? Not much, as long as I can get the models I would like and I do not pay through the nose I am happy.

How would any of these options affect your modelling/ hobby life?

Kanluwen wrote:And your point is still what?

Or are you just here to participate in more of this "SKY IS FALLING! SKY IS FALLING! SKY IS FALLING!" resin stuff?

Can you stop being purposefully obtuse. The man made a simple point that working with resin is more dangerous with working with metal or plastic. And his statement was true. Everyone knows that working with plastic can be dangerous too. That wasn't his point and your continuously harping on it doesn't add to the conversation and makes you look petty and foolish.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:

JoeyHeadwounds wrote:I miss the days when I could walk into a FLGS and find almost everything I needed or wanted. And when I could order the bitZ I needed from GW... without having to buy a whole kit.
For me this is frustrating, but nowhere near as much of one as when those two abilities went extinct.

Heh, you're frustrated?)

Try being the guy who's living depends on a supply of stuff to sell. That list of stuff going away cripples a stores ability to sell many armies. It better come back fast in some format.

Mikhaila since you are the person here who probably knows the most about this I was wondering if you thought that switching to resin would have a negative effect on sales?

how sad, i just started DE again)= and i don't want to order Hydra's from them from GW directly

I didn't get to see the entire list. Did the list contain absolutely all metal models including those that come in a box or was it blister packs?

Lunchb0x wrote:
Agreed on all points, except your statement on injection molding. The pellets are heated to a liquid base then injected in the mold to fill every nook and cranny. The company I work for, and have for 13+ years, makes toys and model kits for companies like Medicom, DC Direct, American McGees Alice to name a few off the top of my head. I think I know what I am talking about.

Not to try and one up you, but I design plastic injection molds and parts as part of my job. Unless you can get undercuts as part of your process (which you can't do in injection molds for stiff plastic) you are not going to get the same amount of detail as in resin where you can build and mold basically any shape. Also to keep the parts from hanging in the die you have to draft and round off sharp detail to keep it from sticking when you do the ejection. Look at the toys you describe and then go grab one of forgeworlds more intricate resin casts. It's not even close. If you are molding in a highly flexible plastic you can do better, but that's not really suitable for GW style figures.

Plastic in the mold can pick up any shape, probably as well as resin if not better, but the realities of the mold design severely limit how much detail and what types can be put in. that's the big learning curve when jumping from metal or resin to plastic.

asmith wrote:

Lunchb0x wrote:
Agreed on all points, except your statement on injection molding. The pellets are heated to a liquid base then injected in the mold to fill every nook and cranny. The company I work for, and have for 13+ years, makes toys and model kits for companies like Medicom, DC Direct, American McGees Alice to name a few off the top of my head. I think I know what I am talking about.

Not to try and one up you, but I design plastic injection molds and parts as part of my job. Unless you can get undercuts as part of your process (which you can't do in injection molds for stiff plastic) you are not going to get the same amount of detail as in resin where you can build and mold basically any shape. Also to keep the parts from hanging in the die you have to draft and round off sharp detail to keep it from sticking when you do the ejection. Look at the toys you describe and then go grab one of forgeworlds more intricate resin casts. It's not even close. If you are molding in a highly flexible plastic you can do better, but that's not really suitable for GW style figures.

Plastic in the mold can pick up any shape, probably as well as resin if not better, but the realities of the mold design severely limit how much detail and what types can be put in. that's the big learning curve when jumping from metal or resin to plastic.

You are comparing Toys to model kits. A toy doesnt carry alot of the sharp edges/pointy bits, due to safety reasons. To help keep a piece sticking in the mold, polishing that location will do it. Though the cost to polish a mold at times can triple it. If you want an example of high detail look at most model kits, finescale not GW, those are all injection molded and some have amazing amounts of detail on parts , both big and small. I dont know what you design your molds for but I have been working exclusively with toys/models of both plastic and resin variety, that is where I pull my info from.