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dantay_xv wrote:
Either stick to topic or start a new therad!!!

GW removing these models entirely = unlikely
GW using direct only sales = possible
GW using plastics the way they extolled the use of plastics on the new high elves for blood island = likely
GW using resin = possible.

How will any of this affect me? Not much, as long as I can get the models I would like and I do not pay through the nose I am happy.

How would any of these options affect your modelling/ hobby life?

P.S. Ouch... I just accidentally gouged my eyes out of my head with a smooth edged plastic spoon.

Sorry I just get fed up with people banging on needlessly ....... want some help with those eyes Oooops my chainsword just slipped

As far as I can see the Majority of the models are single figure or small elite (ish) units that you probably would not have too much of, therefore a limitted market. It would make sense to make these mail order direct to make more room for core or troop choices which people need to bulk out their forces within the stores, they can also set themselves easier manufacturing targets so that certain ranges are not over produced and left lying on shelves forever.

Unless this has been in the pipeline for a very long time, a huge move to another modelling medium could cause major headaches, especially if something went wrong. IF they are changing to resin or plastic, I would imagine that it would be phased in over a number of months, possibly a year or 2 so that they would get teething issues out of the way.

I personally prefer plastics... in the good (dark) old days I preferred metal, but as the standard of the plastics has risen quite dramatically over time and the ease in which conversions and kitbashing can be done with plastics. It makes hobbying more fun.

Also look at the island of blood models esp. the High Elves and the quality is quite stunning.

Resin is perfect for those centrepiece models which is going to have supremely exquisite detail, that everyone can enjoy and appreciate, especially the advanced modeller.

However whichever route GW are going down, I hope that it will not adversely affect modellers and suppliers (especially suppliers, as for some they are our lifeblood within the hobby) for too long.

GW are a lackluster business, they have no clue about whats really important - the customers. GW think that if they repackage their stuff more sales will occur, but they forget that all they need to do is bring back the bits range as it used to be, put prices in their catalogue and make it free, and put better models (and more) in their box sets and battalions.
Its not hard, but they think it is.
Switching to resin will simply put the prices up on already overpriced crap. And why do they print the names of the model designers instead of prices in their catalogue? does anyone care who designed anything or am the only one who thinks GW are greedy wasteful amateurs with no business sense and no regard for their customers?
Amateurs.

GW are greedy wasteful amateurs with no business sense and no regard for their customers

The second point here is a reasonable enough perspective, given that GW care only about 'the customer' as a sort of malleable mass (some pewter, some plastic, some even resin...) that they can mould more or less easily with a certain amount of wastage along the way.

But to describe them as 'greedy wasteful amateurs' is, i think, to completely undervalue what the company has achieved over the last thirty-odd years, which (whether one likes it or not) is impressive.

Greedy -- okay, if you equate 'greed' with 'maximising profits' as many people (including myself sometimes) do.

Wasteful -- well of what? Their 'precious customer resource?' Hardly. They just whistle up replacement ore when current stocks pass their sell-by date. this has worked for them for years and shows in fact a thorough-goingly professional (though not necessarily admirable) approach to business.

Amateurish -- absolutely not.

Yes, some companies have a business model where they're all lovely and are very focused on their long term customer loyalty. These companies are most often (not always) smallish-medium size (for their particular industry) and newish. GW was actually more like this when they had, as you said, their bits-to-order, etc (freebies in WD too...). They haven't moved away from that because they're stupid. they've mobved away from that because it no longer makes economic sense for them to do so (or possibly they realised it in fact bnever did).

Now don't get me wrong, i rather wish they were friendlier and more customer-friendly (I could easily have strangled the young idiot who 'dealt' with a telephone query of mine recently). I can see lots of 'improvements' they could make, some of which would bring back what I remember as 'the good old days', but they'd be improvements from my perspective, not GWs. At the end of the day, having been an off and on GW customer for over 25 years, and cordially detesting many 'improvements' they have made... I'm still buying their figures and rulesbooks. Not frequently, and certainly not steadily for all those years (I've had several longish breaks). But they're clearly not getting things badly wrong. Because they're still dominating a market they pretty much single-handed wrenched from utter obscurity (to marginal obscurity) years ago. Now I grant you that their position is very fdifferent now. they have the jackal packs of all those new fresh-faced, customer-friendly companies snapping at them, carving little chunks from their flesh. So, as they've done before, they will adapt. Sometime, maybe, they'll fail to adapt appropriately, and they'll implode and die. But although their actions may appear stupid (employing young twits to answer the phones, for instance seems to me to be the height of folly), I don't think GW actually make many stupid moves.

I put a order into GW 8 days ago for the Plague marines and haven't heard anything.

Called today and he said they were out of stock on them and alot of other things.

But They will recieve their shipment of them and alot of other things on monday and ill get them next week.

Possibly a shortage is why some shops havent been getting certain kits recently ?

As someone with a significant other trying to build her tyranid army and now finding these removed from indy stores, colour me a mite frustrated right now.

a while ago i put in an order for their catalogue and was told it would contain the entire bits range, prices and scenery.
this was a scurolous lie. however, after complaining to gw i managed to get my money back and keep the picture book. this was just one example of gw's incompetence. i hate companies that dont take their customers seriously. gw are greedy and went the wrong way with the lord of the rings and floating on the stock exchange, they take more care of their stockholders than they do their customers.

Does that mean we get free stuff if we buy stock? How many shares do you need for a free FW reaver?

Necros wrote:Does that mean we get free stuff if we buy stock? How many shares do you need for a free FW reaver?

Naw, but you could get dividends that you could spend on that stuff. I own stock and never even got a "Hi, how are ya!" but I'll take dividends over niceties.

i think that the answer is that they ARE switching to a resin of some kind. the models i glanced at (IG and lizardmen) were all quite heafty metal models; commisar, ogyrns, salamander hunting packs and the gigantic heavy metal thug that i love sosososo much that i have TWO of him: Ancient Scar Leader Kroq gar on a carnasaur. they would NOT leave thier client base hanging like this without future alternatives. I know they're GW but it is common sense for any business person that if you decide to cut back stock on a certain line because it's to expensive to make, then you should find a cheaper alternative to satisfy your hungry client base of gamers, painters and modelers followed by a horde of 8 year olds holding their mum's credit cards! I don't think they dumb enough to cut back this much stock without plans to reintroduce it!

wookie8472 wrote:am the only one who thinks GW are greedy wasteful amateurs with no business sense and no regard for their customers?

You're not the only one, but you're all wrong.

Industry leaders don't get to where they are by acting as you describe.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:As someone with a significant other trying to build her tyranid army and now finding these removed from indy stores, colour me a mite frustrated right now.

I second this emotion. Just when I feel I'm getting to where I want to be with my bugs this comes out... Frustrated but not letting it show because I feel like there's more to the story than we know at the moment.

Keep in mind the list in the OP is in addition to the SKU’s that other vendors reported were being withdrawn / limited to stock on hand.

But just sticking to the list in the OP, that’s 239 SKU, 44 Special Characters from my count, and made up of both boxes and blisters and units from across the force org. Some of the items represent everything that is available in metal for a given army. If you a new Eldar, Tyranid, Skaven, Dark Elf, or Daemon player (just to name a few) you may find a hard time finding the models to fill out your army.

It just makes no sense that these models are being permanently withdrawn and very little sense that they are being moved behind the virtual wall known as “Direct Only”.

So many SKU’s being removed at one time, especially when GW is in the most favorable cash position it has been in since the LOTR bubble speaks loudly that a conversion of some kind is happening.

Again, I am sure GW would love it if there was a surge of “panic” buying that helped draw down stock, so why should GW step in quickly to “dispel” rumors. Also, maybe whatever conversion was going to take place was supposed to occur more gradual, but with the cat out of the bag so to speak and the ensuing “panic” buying, maybe GW has been forced to accelerate their plans, hence the vastly expanding list of SKU’s and increasing amount of speculation. All of which is seemingly self perpetuating.

DarknessEternal wrote:

wookie8472 wrote:am the only one who thinks GW are greedy wasteful amateurs with no business sense and no regard for their customers?

You're not the only one, but you're all wrong.
Industry leaders don't get to where they are by acting as you describe.

You would be surprised how far they get with the right connections

connections or not, gw should take heed of the signs and learn to play nice...
or else.

wookie8472 wrote:connections or not, gw should take heed of the signs and learn to play nice...
or else.

Or else? What? You'll keep posting how much you don't like them? You've got all of 4 posts on Dakka, and you manage to spout nonsense and you're dislike of the company in each one. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

More on topic:

I'm starting to get a lot of 'Out of stocks' in my orders. Whether these will come back to mail order at some point or not, they can't say. I tried to special order Tau Broadsides and a Crisis Commander, and they came in as a zero on the invoice. This was through direct, not trade sales, so no orders on those are getting filled.

MGS - I've got all the metal Tyranid pieces in stock right now. Tell Mrs. Stompa to make a list and send me a PM and we can work it out.

Oni - All metal blisters, boxes of metal figures, hybrid boxes with metal and platic pieces. If it has metal in it at all, it's currently "On run down, and available while supplies last".

I got tired of seeing blank hooks and condensed down my GW blisters from 200 pegs to 96 pegs. This made room on the walls for the big order I got in of Gamezone, Scribor, Cmon, and SodaPop. I hate to not have every section of the store crammed with stuff, and am adapting to the "Great Metal Exodus of 2011". If GW suddenly has a boatload of resin kits for me on May 16th, I'll find a way to make it all fit.)

Kroothawk wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

wookie8472 wrote:am the only one who thinks GW are greedy wasteful amateurs with no business sense and no regard for their customers?

You're not the only one, but you're all wrong.
Industry leaders don't get to where they are by acting as you describe.

You would be surprised how far they get with the right connections

We're not talking about banks or Haliburton here.

Even with 'connections'(which is a laughable idea to say the least), GW isn't a vital industry where a government or rich financier is going to step in to bail them out if something goes wrong.

What cracks me up, and I am sure the vets. will agree, is I heard this all before when they went from lead to pewter. How the world was coming to an end and GW will pay for their crimes against humanity. This is a hobby... I for one will do this hobby till I fall down dead, even if I do not play I enjoy building and collecting.

Guys GW is not the anti-Christ, are they saints, no. Though I have to say get with store owners like mikhaila who take care of their customers and it makes this hobby alot less painful. GW will raise prices again, they will cut down the number of figs per box, they will change materials from whatever they are doing to something else, nothing stays the same and thats life. Good Luck on bridging the gap while they retool, have patience, who knows maybe this new stuff will be a thing of legends.... maybe.

Uktabi wrote: GW will raise prices again, they will cut down the number of figs per box, they will change materials from whatever they are doing to something else, nothing stays the same and thats life.

Exactly, just like any other company. No one pisses and moans when Wonderbread changes ingredients or raises its prices.

PS, not taking issue with quoted post, only echoing its sentiments.

DarknessEternal wrote:

wookie8472 wrote:am the only one who thinks GW are greedy wasteful amateurs with no business sense and no regard for their customers?

You're not the only one, but you're all wrong.

Industry leaders don't get to where they are by acting as you describe.

You're right, but in GW's case they did so by being first (that is first to try and be a large scale miniature corp.), not by necessarily being best.

That being said, I see GW is having a summer of magic for WFB. I play Bretonnians. Maybe I'll pick up some more damsels for the summer event. Oh wait, I can't- they're all discontinued right now.

If GW really are moving to resin then they could have made the transition smoother (ie actually let their customers buy their products in stores) rather than pull items without explanation. If they're pulling these to be direct order forever then that's ok too, just let the customers know what's going on.

theHandofGork wrote:
You're right, but in GW's case they did so by being first (that is first to try and be a large scale miniature corp.), not by necessarily being best.

That's just patently incorrect. They were just the most successful.

I really dig metal. But if they are at least going to be replaced with resin/plastic/unobtainium, I suppose I can adjust... I'll just get my metal fix with Privateer Press, Infinity, Malifaux, Anima Tactics, and the random Reaper here and there.

I know that there are a lot of people complaining on here about the move to plastic models. I am all for it. Almost my entire gaming group hates metal models. I know I sure do. They often don't fit together, they are hard to glue together (when compared to plastic kits), big pieces often need to be pinned, etc. I have had none of these problems with the plastic kits. If they get rid of all of the metal models and put them into plastic, then that would be sweet. However, I have a feeling that this is not what is going on with this. I bet you they are just going Direct Only.

if gw go direct only, it will save them money on having to pay for stores, staff wages and distribution. maybe with the current trend of more people losing their jobs than ever before gw want to jump on the bandwagon.
i like metal models, they are a lot easier to customise than plastic or toxic resin. and the weight helps them to stand up.
gw should have slowly integrated the resin models (if resin is their plan) rather than halt production and piss everyone off.

it may all go to pot..

DarknessEternal wrote:

theHandofGork wrote:
You're right, but in GW's case they did so by being first (that is first to try and be a large scale miniature corp.), not by necessarily being best.

That's just patently incorrect. They were just the most successful.

Oh yeah, I forgot about ______ who started a chain of mini wargaming retail stores and then went public to gain enough capital to have a worldwide operation before GW. What company was that again? This isn't to knock the good things (business-wise) GW has done over the years, but they were the first miniature company to operate on such a scale. And being first is often better than being best.

mikhaila wrote:I got tired of seeing blank hooks and condensed down my GW blisters from 200 pegs to 96 pegs. This made room on the walls for the big order I got in of Gamezone, Scribor, Cmon, and SodaPop. I hate to not have every section of the store crammed with stuff, and am adapting to the "Great Metal Exodus of 2011". If GW suddenly has a boatload of resin kits for me on May 16th, I'll find a way to make it all fit.)

Gamezone?! Wow, I'm going to have to try and stop in this weekend because I've been wanting to see those models in person for a long time.

wookie8472 wrote:if gw go direct only, it will save them money on having to pay for stores, staff wages and distribution.

You do know what "direct only" means, right?
It doesn't mean that they close up their shops and let staff go.
It just means that the models are only available by ordering--and the production staff at the plants are the ones who would be handling your models before they're sent out to you directly(or your shop, as the case may be) and the normal chain of distribution is cut out. They also won't come in a fancy box with graphics, but instead a simple white box labeled "CITADEL" with a sticky note detailing what's inside and a UPC.

maybe with the current trend of more people losing their jobs than ever before gw want to jump on the bandwagon.

Yeah...that's why they're shutting down the stores they have worldwide, right?
Oh wait!

i like metal models, they are a lot easier to customise than plastic or toxic resin. and the weight helps them to stand up.

Plastic and resin have no problems standing up by themselves. Your point is invalid.

gw should have slowly integrated the resin models (if resin is their plan) rather than halt production and piss everyone off.
it may all go to pot..

That's actually exactly what they're doing. They didn't just decide "Oh hey guys, let's switch to resin" one night and implement the policy the next day.

Right now, if the whole resin thing is correct: they're selling off the full warehoused stock of pewter models.
With many of these models, they will likely sit on shelves until the next bloody edition of 40k.
This "no moar metalz! oh noes!" attitude doesn't help matters, at all, when it comes to discussion.

I don't really understand why you would want metal models. They are a bitch to put together, to convert and even to paint. They fall over all the time (I have a number of Raptors that need an exceptionally flat surface to stand on, even with weights in the base) and the level of detail is not greater than any other medium.

I'd much rather have resin models.

wookie8472 wrote:if gw go direct only, it will save them money on having to pay for stores, staff wages and distribution.

Can you name a successful game that is only sold mail-order? I can't really think of any.

I take this ill thought out comment a bit more seriously, since it affects my job directly. My stores have sold thousands of dollars a month in GW figures for two decades. We've built up a large community, and make GW a good bit of money. In the case you describe, I'd be scrambling to find something else to sell, and would put every effort into pushing Warmachine, Malifaux, Flames of War, and any other non GW game. GW would lose a big chunk of sales, and a store advertising their product. Warhammer would become a niche product that people play in their basements and can't find new players. We'd be playing every other game in the store and telling people to leave their GW stuff at home.

That would not make GW more money. GW is successful because of it's market penetration through their own stores and in thousands of FLGS.

I dislike metal - it falls over, it falls apart, the paint chips off - but I strongly doubt that a toxic dust-generating resin is ever going to be seen as a suitable material for mainline models. Hector Rex, maybe, but if you tell every parent buying Mephiston or Dante for their 11-year old hobbyist that they'll need a dust mask to not die whilst building their model you can just kiss a massive amount of turnover goodbye as youths get bought airfix instead. Switching to resin would be an astonishingly risky move; screwing over FLGS and ebay trader profit margins by switching to direct sounds far more likely.