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Yet again BR has ignored that there is a target, and that you need to hit that target.

Surprise.

And yet again Nos ignores that the target is not determined until after the model is affected by the power.

Surprise.

This was the best way I have seen someone it explain it with the exception that the model is touched by the line, not hit.

The point Grey Mage is making is that you cannot pick the first model affected by the line (which automatically nominates itself as the target), and then retroactively roll To Hit, because in order to have drawn the line in the first place, you would have needed to successfully hit in the first place! However, if you roll To Hit before drawing the line, you have no target, and thus are resolving an illegal shooting (that is, rolling To Hit something without having first declared a Target, of which there is none because the line hasn't been placed yet!).

You see what we're saying? You cannot draw a line to determine the first model affected (thus giving yourself a Target), and then retroactively rolling To Hit to see if you're allowed to draw the line in the first place!

Brother Ramses wrote:And yet again Nos ignores that the target is not determined until after the model is affected by the power.

Surprise.

This was the best way I have seen someone it explain it with the exception that the model is touched by the line, not hit.

Except for that the SW FAQ clearly states that models are "hit" by Jaws. Please stop dodging that fact. Explain why you don't think they are "hit".

And yet again you ignore the "target" wording

You are required to pick a model to target, as per the SW FAQ. Now, page and paragraph showing your exception to the "to hit" requirement?

<snarky comment redacted; tread carefully --Janthkin>

Geez, I saw 2 new pages in here and was looking forward to some good info... all I found were stupid conversations about plasma, the definition of is vs isn't, and a long argument about jaws that already has it's own thread.

While we are on the topic of pointless questions, there is one I am dying to hear everyone's opinion on:

The sky is blue because it reflects the ocean. The ocean is blue because it reflects the sky. Seems like a rules contradiction to me

Your assertions are false, which is the problem

omerakk wrote:
The sky is blue because it reflects the ocean. The ocean is blue because it reflects the sky. Seems like a rules contradiction to me

Come now, I think we can all agree that it CLEARLY states in the rulebook that the sky is blue because it has so much water in it. Clearly, RAI, water must have a slight blueish tint to it, which is the reason why large bodies of water are so blue to begin with!

The sky isn't blue because it reflects the ocean, poor example is poor.

This thread took a turn somewhere...

Edit: Nevermind. I said I would not be discussing it in this thread anymore.

The ocean looks blue because red, orange and yellow (long wavelength light) are absorbed more strongly by water than is blue (short wavelength light). So when white light from the sun enters the ocean, it is mostly the blue that gets returned. The sky is blue because the atmosphere tends to scatter shorter wavelength (blue) light to a greater extent than longer wavelength (red) light. Blue light from the sun is scattered every which way, much more so than the other colors, so when you look up at the daytime sky you see blue no matter where you look. This scattering is called 'Rayleigh scattering'; the amount of scattering goes as the frequency of the light to the 4th power. By the way, this effect is most prevalent when the particles that do the scattering are smaller than the wavelength of light, as is the case for the nitrogen and oxygen molecules in the atmosphere. This also explains why sunsets are reddish because when the sun is setting, the light that reaches you has had to go through lots more atmosphere than when the sun is overhead, hence the only color light that is not scattered away is the long wavelength light, the red.

Source

Why can't all disputes be this straightforward?

Sev wrote:The ocean looks blue because red, orange and yellow (long wavelength light) are absorbed more strongly by water than is blue (short wavelength light). So when white light from the sun enters the ocean, it is mostly the blue that gets returned. The sky is blue because the atmosphere tends to scatter shorter wavelength (blue) light to a greater extent than longer wavelength (red) light. Blue light from the sun is scattered every which way, much more so than the other colors, so when you look up at the daytime sky you see blue no matter where you look. This scattering is called 'Rayleigh scattering'; the amount of scattering goes as the frequency of the light to the 4th power. By the way, this effect is most prevalent when the particles that do the scattering are smaller than the wavelength of light, as is the case for the nitrogen and oxygen molecules in the atmosphere. This also explains why sunsets are reddish because when the sun is setting, the light that reaches you has had to go through lots more atmosphere than when the sun is overhead, hence the only color light that is not scattered away is the long wavelength light, the red.

LIAR!

Why is the ocean blue?

Cause Miracles, that's why!

Sev wrote:The ocean looks blue because red, orange and yellow (long wavelength light) are absorbed more strongly by water than is blue (short wavelength light). So when white light from the sun enters the ocean, it is mostly the blue that gets returned. The sky is blue because the atmosphere tends to scatter shorter wavelength (blue) light to a greater extent than longer wavelength (red) light. Blue light from the sun is scattered every which way, much more so than the other colors, so when you look up at the daytime sky you see blue no matter where you look. This scattering is called 'Rayleigh scattering'; the amount of scattering goes as the frequency of the light to the 4th power. By the way, this effect is most prevalent when the particles that do the scattering are smaller than the wavelength of light, as is the case for the nitrogen and oxygen molecules in the atmosphere. This also explains why sunsets are reddish because when the sun is setting, the light that reaches you has had to go through lots more atmosphere than when the sun is overhead, hence the only color light that is not scattered away is the long wavelength light, the red.

Well, you didn't cite a page number in the rulebook, but it DOES make sense. The question then is, do you have to roll a to-hit for your light to determine if it hits the atmosphere?

<enough>

Is anyone else thinking that having Jaws work only 2/3 of the time actually makes it an acceptable power now? For me, it now makes it no longer an easy button, but rather a 'better hope it works this turn' power, and I think that's what GW wanted to accomplish with this FAQ.

Now they just need to bump Grey Hunters up to 18 points each, and increase long fang missile launchers to 15 points, and I'd actually reconsider it as a reasonably balanced army list.

a 2/3 chance to pretty much insta pop low I models in a straight line seems fair to me.


it can snipe special weapons and Sergeants too.

I've included the last question for prosperity.

"Q: What psychic powers count as psychic shooting attacks? (p50)
A: Any psychic power with a profile like that of a ranged weapon (i.e. has a range, strength and AP value) and any psychic power that specifically states that it is a psychic shooting attack."

That's a yes for JotWW


"Q: Do psychic shooting attacks need to roll to hit? (p50)
A: Yes."

JotWW is a PSA, so still a yes....

"Q: Do psychic shooting attacks grant cover saves? (p50)
A: Yes, as long as they cause wounds. Cover saves are taken against wounds caused by psychic shooting attacks, not against any other ‘weirder’ effects of the psychic power."

Hmm, but
"Q: When an implosion missile hits a complex unit (one where all the models are not identical in gaming terms) how do you work out what rolls are needed to wound and how do you distribute these wounds? (p47)
A: Although the implosion missile causes wounds in an unusual way it should be treated the same as any other blast weapon. A unit will suffer a number of hits equal to the number of models underneath the blast marker. Using the majority Wounds value of the unit roll to see how many wounds are caused and then allocate these in the usual manner."
Fortunatly we can see that an implosion missile causes 'instant death' a by-product of the wounding process.

JotWW however, simply removes from play.

No Cover save but one needs to roll to hit or one has not followed the rules. Roll to hit.

Whats an Implosion missile?

Idk, some kind of missile?

that Implodes? ??

Implosion Missiles are options on DE Voidraven Bombers.

Yeah =)
It was an example of a non-traditional wounding process and the premisis for taking cover, one must suffer a wound/hit.

JotWW do not cause wounds, this is because the models are removed from play, so no CS.

Implosion missile (DE dex ) is an example of what a 'wound' is. Because it causes ID one can allocate, if one had a cover save one could use it.

interesting, it would appear that it does require a to hit roll unless further faq'd/errata'd.

Seems like specific trumps general to me. If your Psychic Shooting Attack produces a Template attack, for example, you wouldn't roll to hit, regardless of the FAQ. The general rules for shooting attacks say you roll to hit. Now the general rules for psychic shooting are clarified to likewise require you to roll to hit. In either case a specific rule for how you determine hits (such as with Template weapons) overrides the general rules about shooting or psychic shooting attacks.

- Marty Lund

Choboking wrote:

terranarc wrote:
Q: What psychic powers count as psychic shooting
attacks? (p50)
A: Any psychic power with a profile like that of a
ranged weapon (i.e. has a range, strength and AP
value) and any psychic power that specifically states
that it is a psychic shooting attack.

Is JOTWW presented as such? if yes, it needs to hit. if no, no.

Exactly this. Jaws IS presented this way. It specifically states that it is a PSA in the description. That is exactly what the rule calls for. Therefore JOTWW needs to roll for hit.

Touche.
It needs to roll to hit then.

Q: If a walker is the target of Unyielding Anvil, from
the Grand Strategy special rule, can it claim objectives
even though it is a vehicle? (p22)
A: Yes

My favorite part :-)

<snarky text deleted; behave, please --Janthkin>

Choboking wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:And yet again Nos ignores that the target is not determined until after the model is affected by the power.

Surprise.

This was the best way I have seen someone it explain it with the exception that the model is touched by the line, not hit.

Except for that the SW FAQ clearly states that models are "hit" by Jaws. Please stop dodging that fact. Explain why you don't think they are "hit".

If they are hit after the line has been drawn then why would you have to then roll to hit? Since it has just been verified that those under the line are hit.

Lots of red text here lol.

What does "snarky" mean anyway?

It means something like http://lmgtfy.com/?q=snarky