Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Do the daemon clarifications transfer across to other armies that need them (mainly thinking of Rune Priests here)

So GW arbitrarily changed a lot of stuff... Oh well, at least we can go at it Nvidia style now: "The way it's meant to be played".

Simo429 wrote:Do the daemon clarifications transfer across to other armies that need them (mainly thinking of Rune Priests here)

I'd imagine not. It's in the GK book, not in the ROOLBOOK.

daedalus wrote:

Simo429 wrote:Do the daemon clarifications transfer across to other armies that need them (mainly thinking of Rune Priests here)

I'd imagine not. It's in the GK book, not in the ROOLBOOK.

But its a rule about other codices not specifically about the GK one

Unfortunately "common sense" does not mean everyone has it or that it will be at a statistical average either.

Q: What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi
Plasma Syphon? (p62)
A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile
launchers firing plasma missiles, burst cannons,
starcannons, all Tau pulse weapons and any weapon
described as using ‘plasma’ as its effect or in its special
rules.

What. The. Flying. feth.

Yet another army that my Tau can't touch.

Q: What counts as a Daemon? (p21)
A: Everything in the Chaos Daemons codex, Daemon
Princes, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Obliterators,
summoned greater Daemons, summoned lesser
Daemons, any vehicle with the daemonic possesion
upgrade, Daemonhosts, Mandrakes, Kheradruakh the
Decapitator, the Avatar.

So basically eveything in C:CD, everything that's good in C:CSM (bar possessed, surprised they didn't chuck Plague Marines and Thousand Sons in there for good measure), something nobody uses, something nobody uses, something i've never heard of and something we already knew was calssed as a Daemon.

If someone enters a GK siphon army with a good lot of daemon-hunting ability, I might as well not show up to any tournaments.

Avatar 720 wrote:Q: What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi
Plasma Syphon? (p62)
A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile
launchers firing plasma missiles, burst cannons,
starcannons, all Tau pulse weapons and any weapon
described as using ‘plasma’ as its effect or in its special
rules.

What. The. Flying. feth.

Yet another army that my Tau can't touch.

For 1 HQ type with a 15 point item, that only works within 12" and no one will ever take.

Aren't you used to keeping track of 12" for JSJ already for the off chance that someone takes this item and is within 12"?

If the syphon is your biggest worry out of the GK codex, either you've got it made or you are insane.

I am just happy as all hell that these "well it doesn't say its a Daemon!" people can shut up now. And I personally will be using this as evidence for my Rune Priest to runic staff beasties to death with....

Avatar 720 wrote:
If someone enters a GK siphon army with a good lot of daemon-hunting ability, I might as well not show up to any tournaments.

If a single 12" bubble of the plasma syphon is your problem with playing Tau, then I'd say that you haven't yet discovered what your problem with Tau is.

The tournament relavance of the Tau was already sackless. Not worried about the plasma siphon.

And on the Daemons front.. I've noticed that the whole Daemonhunter thing isn't really that big of a deal.

Remember, your gifts aren't psychic powers.

Also, Blessings of the Blood God anything that can take it.

Q: If a model with a Nemsesis force halberd has had his
Initiative reduced to a fixed number by an
ability/special rule, do they still get the +2 Initiative
from the Halberd? (p54)
A: No.

Interesting. Does this mean that Lash Whips, which are supposed to grant Initiative bonuses after reducing you to I1, work amazingly against Grey Knights? If so, I'm really looking forward to fighting GK with my Nids.

And hopefully this FAQ makes the "GK are overpowered" debate die down...

daedalus wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:
If someone enters a GK siphon army with a good lot of daemon-hunting ability, I might as well not show up to any tournaments.

If a single 12" bubble of the plasma syphon is your problem with playing Tau, then I'd say that you haven't yet discovered what your problem with Tau is.

daedalus wrote:Plasma Syphon weapons...Really hurts Tau...

Seems a little odd that you're calling me a bad Tau player for something you had previously claimed to really hurt Tau...

I'm really quite surprised that they let Hammerhand stack, but there are a few things I found interesting. Walkers scoring with Grand Strategy and +1 attack Falchions seem to go against the RAW while the Dreadknight rulings uphold it. The Walkers Scoring thing I can accept, it's a case of a codex rule overriding the rulebook, but the Falchions just seem stupid. There's no reason to take them now, and even before the only models they were worth the cost on were Paladins and Purifiers. Now they will go into my bits box unused and neglected.

I'm kinda glad that they ruled against the Shunt-Punching lists. I understand why they should work by the RAW, but you can get first turn assaults with those models anyway so there really isn't any point, and this way you can use their increased threat range to force your opponent to the back of his deployment zone.

With the current ruling it might be worth taking a Plasma Syphon if you plan on including an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor in your list anyway. I sometimes take them to get Rad Grenades in a Purifier unit, or if I can't afford a Librarian to join Draigo and Paladins.

With the ruling that Hammerhand stacks, it now might be worth taking that second HQ to join your Purifier squad, and the Brotherhood Champion has become slightly more worth his points. S6 Purifiers with rerolls to hit on the charge, or S5 and the ability to cast Purifying Flame are actually not a terrible option.

Overall I approve of the FAQ. It solved the issues that needed solving and it buffed as much as it nerfed, so I'm cool with it.

Q: If a Grand Master gives a unit with personal
teleporters the Scouts special rule, can they use the
shunt move as a part of their Scouts move? (p22)
A: No.

Good riddance to that one.

Avatar 720 wrote:

daedalus wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:
If someone enters a GK siphon army with a good lot of daemon-hunting ability, I might as well not show up to any tournaments.

If a single 12" bubble of the plasma syphon is your problem with playing Tau, then I'd say that you haven't yet discovered what your problem with Tau is.

daedalus wrote:Plasma Syphon weapons...Really hurts Tau...

Seems a little odd that you're calling me a bad Tau player for something you had previously claimed to really hurt Tau...

I never called you a bad Tau player. I said you didn't know what your problem with playing Tau was. Not me calling you out or questioning "yo' mad skillz dawg" or anything like that. I used to have the exact same problem with IG. Still do, in some ways. And what I meant above when I said that it 'hurts Tau' was that it appeared to single Tau weapons specifically out of all the weapons listed. This 'Really hurts Tau' in the sense that Runes of Warding "Really hurts GK" with respect to psychic powers. It might stack the deck against you a bit, but it hardly makes the game unwinnable.

That still doesn't change the fact that you're talking about running away from any tournaments that might have a player who actually bothered to take an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor. I've seen precisely zero netlists so far that contain even one, and with the trend for GK to mostly be done in a MSU format, I'd be astounded if there was an army that you:

a) actually saw at a tournament with the syphon in it.
b) had the inquisitor in a transport that you couldn't immediately railgun open, and then
c) had a squad so large you couldn't fill it full of other medium/long range fire.

I mean, really, if you're playing 'Spot the Cheese', this isn't it. There's SO much better stuff in this Codex, that I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about the Syphon.

Wait, wait, wait, the plasma syphon makes any weapon described as using plasma to bs 1? That means it actually affects disintigrator cannons for dark eldar. Nice to know mandrakes took an unneccesary nerf, not like they were too useful already. I think i'm the only guy to actually consider taking an ulumeathi plasma syphon for a just in case measure.

No clarification on whether the Vindicare turbo penetrator round pens with 4D6 or 4D6 plus S3. Would have been nice for them to clear that one up since they just uber nerfed the Dread Knight.

Seriously, that one ruling about the Dreadknight moves them from a 'I can find room in my army for one' to 'That's £30 well spent to prevent that pesky dust from settling on my beloved shelf.' They were competing with lots of other options before but now, they just don't compete.

Against vehicles, a normal PAGK, with Hammerhand can hit at Strength 10+1D6 (total 16 max) using a Daemohammer. The Dreadknight, with it's doom fists only hits slightly higher at Strength 19 max (S7 + 2D6) using Hammerhand. Give the DK a Hammer and it can obviously hit harder but going up against non vehicles, if you dont want to hit at I1, you lose an attack choosing to use the doom fist.

GW have now made us choose completely between a ranged DK and a CC one. A CC DK will obviously need a teleporter so that's 205 points base. Then add +10 points for the hammer or 25 for the sword, so 215 points or 230. A fair whack for a non ranged DK. A DK with a Psycannon or Psilencer isn't worth it. The incinerator is good but you need a teleporter if you take that, too which makes the DK worth 235 points. So, for me, the ranged DK isn't an option (guess I'll have to try ripping off the incinerator that I've already glued on there). I'm thinking maybe a DK with a teleporter and hammer only for a dedicated anti armour unit. But, a non ranged DK isn't difficult to take down by any means and in CC, there are plenty of things that can maul it.

Add to this the non clarification of the Vindicare and GW have taken an army that already struggles with AV14 and made it more difficult for them imo.

My last (for now) issue with the FAQ is the ruling on Coteaz's 'I've been expecting you' rule. When talking about using it against units arriving by mycetic spore or drop pod, it says that you can shoot at both units. Does this mean both the pod/spore and whatever is inside it? Or is it just poorly worded and is referring to both methods of troop delivery (the spores and pods)?

Eura wrote:Wait, wait, wait, the plasma syphon makes any weapon described as using plasma to bs 1? That means it actually affects disintigrator cannons for dark eldar. Nice to know mandrakes took an unneccesary nerf, not like they were too useful already. I think i'm the only guy to actually consider taking an ulumeathi plasma syphon for a just in case measure.

Well, the problem is this:
- Awesome utility psychic powers
- Amazing flexibility with giving units scoring/scout
- Inquisitorial Henchmen as troops
- Paladins as troops
- Purifiers as troops
- First turn accurate deep strike
- 12" bubble of BS1 for a (comparitively) small handful of guns

Pick up to two. There's just so much game changing stuff in this codex, that it's hard to justify the syphon. To be honest, so far, I've only ever taken an inquisitor in low point value games where I couldn't afford to take a GKGM or Librarian. Most of the time, if I can, I'll have a libby and a GKGM or Crowe. I'd imagine that most people are going to see the importance of the utility of the other choices, and pass up the magic plasma bubble for things that actually give you some widespread effect.

Dreadknights strike at initiative with the hammer.

I'm just glad that enough things have been given the "MC moves as jump infantry" now that I'll stop taking dangerous terrain tests for my flying DPs. Jump infantry take tests for landing in difficult terrain, not MCs. It'll save me a lot of wounds!

Spellbound wrote:I'm just glad that enough things have been given the "MC moves as jump infantry" now that I'll stop taking dangerous terrain tests for my flying DPs. Jump infantry take tests for landing in difficult terrain, not MCs. It'll save me a lot of wounds!

Umm. What part of 'moves as' and landing in or moving into difficult terrain are we not understanding?

Well shucks, this all seems fine to me:

1. Finally, DREADS CAN SCORE! Woo!

2. Dreadknights and interceptors didn't need the 30" first turn movement, they can move 24" in two turns with a 6" assault.

3. Finally cleared up "Ive been expecting you," that's for all you cowards hiding in your drop pods.

Interesting things:

1. Items and abilities that reduce initiative by any number, also removes the halberd bonus. That makes them significantly better against the knights.

2. Nemesis Doomfists are strength 6. Matt Ward, why did you say they acted like DCCW? You knew what we'd think!

Spellbound wrote:I'm just glad that enough things have been given the "MC moves as jump infantry" now that I'll stop taking dangerous terrain tests for my flying DPs. Jump infantry take tests for landing in difficult terrain, not MCs. It'll save me a lot of wounds!

Mmm, not so sure about that. If you move like jump infantry, then you follow the rules under Jump Infantry movement. If a Bloodthirster lands in terrain, he takes a DT, just like a jump-pack marine would.

Dok wrote:Dreadknights strike at initiative with the hammer.

80

I hadn't noticed that. Now I REALLY want to rip the incinerator off his arm and just give him the hammer.

ColdSadHungry wrote:

Dok wrote:Dreadknights strike at initiative with the hammer.

80

I hadn't noticed that. Now I REALLY want to rip the incinerator off his arm and just give him the hammer.

Wait, where does it say that?

Edit: Never mind, page 54.

Well, JotWW requires a to-hit roll now. So there's a bone for Tyranids. But then again, Catalyst requires a to-hit roll, so one hand giveth, and the other taketh away.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Q: If a model with a Nemsesis force halberd has had his
Initiative reduced to a fixed number by an
ability/special rule, do they still get the +2 Initiative
from the Halberd? (p54)
A: No.

Interesting. Does this mean that Lash Whips, which are supposed to grant Initiative bonuses after reducing you to I1, work amazingly against Grey Knights? If so, I'm really looking forward to fighting GK with my Nids.

And hopefully this FAQ makes the "GK are overpowered" debate die down...

GW wrote:Tyranid FAQ

Q: If a model with Lash Whips is attacking a model with Initiative-boosting rule/piece of wargear (eg. Furious Charge, an Banshee Mask ect.), which order are the Initatives modified?
A: The Lash Whips will reduce an enemy model's Initiative to 1 before any other modifiers are applied. So, a model with Furious Charge that assaults a Tyranid unit with Lash Whips will strike at Initative 2, and an Eldar with a Banshee Mask will strike at Initative 10 in the first round.

GW wrote:Grey Knights FAQ

Q: If a model with a Nemsesis force halberd has had his
Initiative reduced to a fixed number by an
ability/special rule, do they still get the +2 Initiative
from the Halberd? (p54)
A: No.

So Grey Knight's Initative-boosting from the Halberd does not work against Lash Whips but everyone else's Initative-boosting works after the Lash Whips are applied? Which is it GW?

I'm honestly surprised that Obliterators and possessed vehicles are considered demons. In my mind a possessed rhino is still a rhino, not a demon. Oh and mandrakes are demons, too. LOL!
Next they'll say all librarians are demons because they use the warp.

I don't have my Grey Knight codex handy, but how did falchions supposedly give +2 attacks?

And its hilarious that the plasma syphon affects almost every gun in the Tau codex. I had no idea they had some much S7 AP2 guns!

the plasma syphon is crud anyway. the firer has to be within 12" to be affected by it. Ok pistols and stuff would be hurt by that but the big boys - plasma cannons and the like would be fine.

I am very disappointed they nerfed Falchions. they give +2A RAW.

seems like the whiners got through to GW.



I am glad they cleared up what is a Deamon and what isnt.


Interesting that they allow Dreads the be scoring.


they nerfed the Shunt punch tactic, but we kinda saw that coming.