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1hadhq wrote: its pointless to get upset by GW fluff like you seem to be here. Actually lots of examples of whole forces singlehandedly dealt with by characters happened in codices and I think you are aware it will happen again. If not marines, sly marbo could do it.

True.

TrollPie wrote:
I was exaggerating. Still, billions of bugs can't be killed with one 'I win' button.

Until the "i win button" is one of the game designers...

True.

Sucessfully assailing the source pretty much invalidates the oh so great overwhelming numbers.
Marines know where they can fight and choose their battles. So they don't have to beat each nid one by one.
Plus, billions are only countable if every single bacteria sized nid counts. And you don't want to claim anything smaller than gants count, don't you?

Synapse creatures are scattered throughout the swarm; it's impossible to simply land in one place and kill every important creature. There are millions of smaller creatures that will be directed towards you, and too many large creatures you need to kill for anything short of a battle group to take them all on at once. Unless each marine is as powerful as a Carnifex, they're going to fail.

Not smart, not too powerful to overcome, and too slow to adapt to what is thrown at them if its varied enough.
Nids have been beaten before and this will continue.

Nids have won before and this will continue. The Swarmlord has outsmarted Imperial generals before, Hydraphants are a match for the largest Imperial titans and they adapt quickly, full stop. The only other race that adapts on something greater than a tactical scale to overcome new opponents are the Tau, and they don't adapt nearly as quickly as the Tyranids.

If you could stop imagining non-existant sizes of nid forces for a minute, it would be possible to accept that amassed forces have a big
"please hit me" sign painted on them in a universe filled with weapons able to destroy whole planets.

By that logic, it is impossible for any large fleet to exist in the galaxy. Or any large planet. Or any large organisation whatsoever. In a galaxy full of weapons able to destroy planets, your only hope is to be so small that said weapons don't notice you.

How many minutes does it take to end all life depends on the time you need to load, aim and fire and thus less than an hour isn't impossible....

In the void of space you have a long time to react before the weapon hits you. Any weapon that doesn't utilise the Warp is limited by the speed of light, and with engagement ranges measured in millions of kilometres that counts for a lot. And there's the fact that you'll only ever see the force you are facing a few seconds or minutes before the present, and that it's incredibly hard to aim at something that far away in darkness, and that you'll all be moving at high speeds, and it becomes very difficult indeed.

Not all those synapse creatures are important, the majority of them are only channeling it from the the big ones. Even the Hive Tyrant is useless if the Norn Queen and Hive ship are taken out.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Norn-Queen

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hive_Ship

I don't see why you still think they would have to fight the entire hive beforehand

After reading all of this I have only 3 words: The Emperor protects!!!

Nicholas wrote:Not all those synapse creatures are important, the majority of them are only channeling it from the the big ones. Even the Hive Tyrant is useless if the Norn Queen and Hive ship are taken out.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Norn-Queen

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hive_Ship

I don't see why you still think they would have to fight the entire hive beforehand

It would be hard to avoid them. The Norn Queens are the most important creatures in the hive and would be protected by walls of gribblies. They wouldn't have to fight the entire hive, but they would have to fend of a good portion of it. After all, they're on board a massive Tyranid battleship several kilometres long and constantly spweing out new creatures.
Also, 100 Marines can't take down a Hive Ship. They're more powerful than Imperial Battleships, and at the centre of the swarm surrounded by bio-ships.
Who wrote this piece of fluff and where can I find it?


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Brother Coa wrote:After reading all of this I have only 3 words: The Emperor protects!!!

TrollPie wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:After reading all of this I have only 3 words: The Emperor protects!!!

+1

Good choice, I also use that when I am getting laid wit ladies

You really think the Imperium will shatter when it's greatest enemy is Failbaddon? He's had 13 attempts. The Nids on the other hand, well, I hope the Emperor has some bug spray.

JeneralJoe117 wrote:You really think the Imperium will shatter when it's greatest enemy is Failbaddon? He's had 13 attempts. The Nids on the other hand, well, I hope the Emperor has some bug spray.

We have a lot of lasers....

1hadhq wrote:Necrons care nothing for souls, but thats the common mistake and we don't need to drive the thread offtrack into space robot country.

Man, I'm glad someone said this. The "C'tan nom souls" misconception makes me absurdly butthurt.

Not once in the Necron codex are the C'tan said to eat souls.

TrollPie wrote:They're more powerful than Imperial Battleships

Odd, I've always been of the impression that pound-for-pound Tyranid ships kind of suck, but there is just so many of them.

But back on topic, Imperium is logically doomed, but plot armour disallows it.

Did you really think some loser corpse on a chair was the reason the Imperium is still around and will be forever?

JeneralJoe117 wrote:You really think the Imperium will shatter when it's greatest enemy is Failbaddon? He's had 13 attempts. The Nids on the other hand, well, I hope the Emperor has some bug spray.

The Imperium would destroy itself with infighting and civil war in another 10,000 years anyway. And if they don't then the Necrons will. People state that Terra is unassailable, but five Necron ships were able to enter the Sol system, and one of them managed to land on Mars. And keep in mind, these weren't super powerful battle cruisers, they were light craft. If the Necrons wanted to they could swat Terra from the stars before the Imperium could even send a distress signal.

To be fair, Necron light starcraft are kind of the equivelant of super powerful battle cruisers.

Void__Dragon wrote:To be fair, Necron light starcraft are kind of the equivelant of super powerful battle cruisers.

Well yes, but then Necron's are the most ancient populous race in the galaxy (assuming they don't actually count as extinct) and the C'ten are so powerful they eat stars and can impress their image into every sentient creature in the galaxy, whilst in stasis!

Abstract Catalyst wrote:C'ten

C ten? I only see nine!

Oh God that was awful. Please forgive me.

TrollPie wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:C'ten

C ten? I only see nine!

Oh God that was awful. Please forgive me.

Actually, there's only four...

*Attempts to make up for inability to type*

Well if Necrons ever get up we will all get ZAP-ed into oblivion ( except Orks and Nids ).
But judging by new fluff rumors ( the ones were Necrons show middle finger to C'Tan and start working with others ) gives me a totally different impression of them.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:and the C'ten are so powerful they eat stars and can impress their image into every sentient creature in the galaxy, whilst in stasis!

These C'ten sound dangerous compared to C'tan who get defeated by space marine captains with melta bombs and sergeants.

Luna Dragon wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:and the C'ten are so powerful they eat stars and can impress their image into every sentient creature in the galaxy, whilst in stasis!

These C'ten sound dangerous compared to C'tan who get defeated by space marine captains with melta bombs and sergeants.

Actually, it was an Inquisitor who Melta-Bombed the Nightbringer.

TrollPie... that was either a work of art or something that the Inquisition is going to kill you for.

I think that plot armour is a lot of what is protecting the Imperium, but another factor is just how massive it is. Regardless of any attacker's potential strength, they'll get worn down and lose momentum before the rest of the Imperium really even notices. Then they'll just sit around until a crusade is organized a few decades later, and then they'll lose what they gained. The Tyranids have been stopped before, and I'm sure Leviathan will eventually be stopped. The Necrons are powerful, but they lack the sheer presence to take down the Imperium. For every tomb world, there are thousands of Imperial planets, each capable of producing enough material to stem the Necrons, and in conjunction with other planets in the sub-sector, can destroy the Necrons. The orks fight themselves too much to take on the Imperium. Chaos is too disjointed, and they have a lot of infighting too. The Tau are just too small, and I don't think anyone is talking about the Eldar taking over.

So really, while the Imperium isn't doing all that great, there's nothing out there right now hat can take it down. It's running with the "too big to fail" idea rather well.

Brother Coa wrote:Well if Necrons ever get up we will all get ZAP-ed into oblivion ( except Orks and Nids ).
But judging by new fluff rumors ( the ones were Necrons show middle finger to C'Tan and start working with others ) gives me a totally different impression of them.

That just means the Necrons were able to defeat a race of star system destroying gods, which makes them by far the most powerful faction in 40k. :3

And Uriel did not "defeat" the Nightbringer, he threatened to cave in the entire tomb complex. Apparently, Uriel Ventris is so persuasive he made the Nightbringer forget it's incorporeal.

And it could be worse. He could have been rendered an armless douchebag by a Hive Tyrant, like a certain chapter master was.

Luna Dragon wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:and the C'ten are so powerful they eat stars and can impress their image into every sentient creature in the galaxy, whilst in stasis!

These C'ten sound dangerous compared to C'tan who get defeated by space marine captains with melta bombs and sergeants.

Except the Nightbringer wasn't defeated, by any stretch of the imagination. Plus, the Nightbringer had literally just awoken at that point, and so was at the weakest it had ever been.

Void__Dragon wrote:That just means the Necrons were able to defeat a race of star system destroying gods, which makes them by far the most powerful faction in 40k. :3

I just got a heart attack....

How is leaving C'Tan service meaning defeating them? How can you kill C'Tan? This is the most thing I have ever heard on this forum. It is more then Beef saying that Tau can kill Chaos Gods.

Or you just trolled me and I am a big idiot for felling on it..

Brother Coa wrote:I just got a heart attack....

How is leaving C'Tan service meaning defeating them? How can you kill C'Tan? This is the most thing I have ever heard on this forum. It is more then Beef saying that Tau can kill Chaos Gods.

Or you just trolled me and I am a big idiot for felling on it..

Oh, I guess you are not entirely aware of the "rumors" of the Necron codex.

According to the rumors, the NEcrons wiped out the C'tan, and then enslaved the shattered remnants to use as war engines, an Elite choice.

Make no mistake, I am not happy about these rumors at all, and I seriously considered quitting 40k due to them and other things I heard.

And someone said the Tau can kill the Chaos Gods?

Brother Coa wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:That just means the Necrons were able to defeat a race of star system destroying gods, which makes them by far the most powerful faction in 40k. :3

I just got a heart attack....

How is leaving C'Tan service meaning defeating them? How can you kill C'Tan? This is the most thing I have ever heard on this forum. It is more then Beef saying that Tau can kill Chaos Gods.

Or you just trolled me and I am a big idiot for felling on it..

Rumours of the Necron's 'leaving' the C'tan are (hopefully) absurd. GW have already built up the fact that the Necrons are nothing more than mindless slaves, there's no way they could have an uprising - it'd be like the Imperium's lasguns having a rebellion and leaving.

Well, to be fair, not every Necron is mindless.

But the ones that are not WILLINGLY sold their race into C'tan slavery.

Void__Dragon wrote:Well, to be fair, not every Necron is mindless.

But the ones that are not WILLINGLY sold their race into C'tan slavery.

Exactly. Plus, there is nothing a Necron could do to harm a C'tan, literally nothing. They're immune to every form of attack that isn't warp-related, and the Necrons are entirely 'warp sterile' by the C'tan's design.

If GW actually puts something like this in the next codex I think I'll up sticks.

The worrying thing is, with Ward on the case it could quite easily happen.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I just got a heart attack....

How is leaving C'Tan service meaning defeating them? How can you kill C'Tan? This is the most thing I have ever heard on this forum. It is more then Beef saying that Tau can kill Chaos Gods.

Or you just trolled me and I am a big idiot for felling on it..

Oh, I guess you are not entirely aware of the "rumors" of the Necron codex.

According to the rumors, the NEcrons wiped out the C'tan, and then enslaved the shattered remnants to use as war engines, an Elite choice.

Make no mistake, I am not happy about these rumors at all, and I seriously considered quitting 40k due to them and other things I heard.

Lett me guess: M.W?

And someone said the Tau can kill the Chaos Gods?

Yes.

Brother Coa wrote:Lett me guess: M.W?

Yes.

I would be more willing to blame GW on a whole.

What thread?

Void__Dragon wrote:
What thread?

Black Templar Crusade into Tau Empire.
It was a long ago but man the stories that I heard there...

Brother Coa wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
What thread?

Black Templar Crusade into Tau Empire.
It was a long ago but man the stories that I heard there...

*digs up thread*

TrollPie wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
What thread?

Black Templar Crusade into Tau Empire.
It was a long ago but man the stories that I heard there...

*digs up thread*

I tried, it's not there. That thread is 10 months old....

Brother Coa wrote:

TrollPie wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
What thread?

Black Templar Crusade into Tau Empire.
It was a long ago but man the stories that I heard there...

*digs up thread*

I tried, it's not there. That thread is 10 months old....

I found it! The only mention of Chaos Gods was the reasonable assumption that, if the Tau ruled the galaxy, their small Warp presence wouldn't feed the Gods enough and they would starve. Which makes sense IMHO.
But wait! Off topic! Return to bickering Dakkanauts!


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Also, it was only 3 months old. Hah!