Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Bobthehero wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
You are aware that flak vests exist these days, and that female soldiers and cops wear them ? They are mass produced as well

Carapace- Same thing. Have a mold for a female torso. Not hard to make. Mass produce away.

There are all-female regiments of Guard in the fluff. You think they go into battle in negligees?

(that's more the Repentia's line 4+ armour Everlasts )

They use the same flak vest as their male counterpart, which is mass produced and doesnt grow breast the second a woman wears it.

Spoiler:

Now hand them a gasmask do the same with a guy in the same gear, and then tell me which is which.

This was your comment:

'Power armor, maybe, but mass produced flak/carapace armor? Doubt it.'



If regular Flak armour already fit women well enough then they don't need to be changed. Never said that they did, not that it would suddenly inflate a pair of armour plates on the front the moment a woman wore it. I've worked with women in flak rigs and other protective gear, though, and generally they've said it doesn't fit quite right, as it was designed for someone taller and male. If they luck out and get one that fits their height, it has tightness issues, and one that fits their chest is too loose over the abdomen, even when cinched tight.


I think you or I might be getting the wrong end of the stick.

I took your comment to mean that they can't mass produce flak/carapace armour that would fit women. My answer is accurate. There are companies that already do, so why not in the IOM?

There ARE flak vests designed to fit women out there, and the manufacturing process would be about the same. If a world had a habit of recruiting all femal IG regiments, it would follow that they would equip them with gear that fit women better, too (assuming thr world in question equips the regiment as well as providing the recruits.


Carapace armour would have to be altered slightly though, unless the carapace armour was fairly roomy in the chest. I'm not claiming that it should be 98 GGG like some anime's

I was saying that the IOM was quite capable of making these adjustments, and it wouldn't be much of a design stretch



Here's a good resource: http://www.bodyarmornews.com/bodyarmordevelopments/bodyarmor-female.htm

Male pattern body armour can be worn by women, but it's not ideal. When you have worlds that have the whole population serving (men and women) or all female regiments it would make sense to develop armour patterns that actually fit them

Remove the use of "Space Marine" and replace it with "Ultramarine" I'm sure that would make Matt Ward's day.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Galdos wrote:Have Abaddon attack in another direction. "Oh look, I breached a whole in the IG defense line at Cadia, good I can expand from there."

ie. Instead of going through the defense line and making a right to the Cadian system, make a left and conquer a few territories to the left. Turn these places to Daemon worlds and actuallly INCREASE the size of the Eye of Terror so now Chaos can leave the Eye of Terror without dealing with Cadia.

He tried that, more than once.
The only place he got more than a foothold was Cadia, where his forces are stationed, at least partially.

I was writting in response to the statements refering to the fact that its a mistake to make Abaddon constantly fighting Cadia. If he wins, Cadia falls and there goes that the Cadian Regiments which you can imagine the problems here, if he loses, he looks like a saturday morning cartoon villian. How to fix this? Have him attack and WIN in another direction. It fixes all the problems.

Silent king of necrons never left the galaxy

Ascalam wrote:

Bobthehero wrote:

Ascalam wrote:
You are aware that flak vests exist these days, and that female soldiers and cops wear them ? They are mass produced as well

Carapace- Same thing. Have a mold for a female torso. Not hard to make. Mass produce away.

There are all-female regiments of Guard in the fluff. You think they go into battle in negligees?

(that's more the Repentia's line 4+ armour Everlasts )

They use the same flak vest as their male counterpart, which is mass produced and doesnt grow breast the second a woman wears it.

Spoiler:

Now hand them a gasmask do the same with a guy in the same gear, and then tell me which is which.

This was your comment:

'Power armor, maybe, but mass produced flak/carapace armor? Doubt it.'



If regular Flak armour already fit women well enough then they don't need to be changed. Never said that they did, not that it would suddenly inflate a pair of armour plates on the front the moment a woman wore it. I've worked with women in flak rigs and other protective gear, though, and generally they've said it doesn't fit quite right, as it was designed for someone taller and male. If they luck out and get one that fits their height, it has tightness issues, and one that fits their chest is too loose over the abdomen, even when cinched tight.


I think you or I might be getting the wrong end of the stick.

I took your comment to mean that they can't mass produce flak/carapace armour that would fit women. My answer is accurate. There are companies that already do, so why not in the IOM?

There ARE flak vests designed to fit women out there, and the manufacturing process would be about the same. If a world had a habit of recruiting all femal IG regiments, it would follow that they would equip them with gear that fit women better, too (assuming thr world in question equips the regiment as well as providing the recruits.


Carapace armour would have to be altered slightly though, unless the carapace armour was fairly roomy in the chest. I'm not claiming that it should be 98 GGG like some anime's

I was saying that the IOM was quite capable of making these adjustments, and it wouldn't be much of a design stretch



Here's a good resource: http://www.bodyarmornews.com/bodyarmordevelopments/bodyarmor-female.htm

Male pattern body armour can be worn by women, but it's not ideal. When you have worlds that have the whole population serving (men and women) or all female regiments it would make sense to develop armour patterns that actually fit them

I meant to say that women wear the flak vests designed for men, and thats why most torsos are the same. The IoM is very set in their way mind you, might explain it.

Fair enough then.

Women wear the flak vests made for men (in the military at least, the cops have vests for either gender in some places) because up until quite recently women weren't allowed on the battlefield. The military establishment is old men, generally, who don't think of/care about these things

Much the same with the IOM i suppose, but i can see worlds prone to female soldiers making a variant for those soldiers without Imperial sanction. I doubt the AdMech would notice, or care if they did. Uniform is somewhat variable anyway (DKOK, Kaledon Hunters, Voyasterans ) so the armour is probably locally produced also, and just as variable. The Lasguns are certainly different in design from place to place, after all.

Galdos wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Galdos wrote:Have Abaddon attack in another direction. "Oh look, I breached a whole in the IG defense line at Cadia, good I can expand from there."

ie. Instead of going through the defense line and making a right to the Cadian system, make a left and conquer a few territories to the left. Turn these places to Daemon worlds and actuallly INCREASE the size of the Eye of Terror so now Chaos can leave the Eye of Terror without dealing with Cadia.

He tried that, more than once.
The only place he got more than a foothold was Cadia, where his forces are stationed, at least partially.

I was writting in response to the statements refering to the fact that its a mistake to make Abaddon constantly fighting Cadia. If he wins, Cadia falls and there goes that the Cadian Regiments which you can imagine the problems here, if he loses, he looks like a saturday morning cartoon villian. How to fix this? Have him attack and WIN in another direction. It fixes all the problems.

See http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392010.page

In the 13th Black Crusade, Abaddon took the majority of Cadia, most of the worlds in the Cadia system, and many of the systems in the neighboring subsector, with one turning into a Nurgle daemon world. In the Apocalypse rulebook, he is shown in the Thesus sector (i.e. out of the sectors of the Cadian Gate), showing that at least Abaddon's main force has moved beyond the Gate.

The loss of Cadia would hardly be a huge problem to fit into background. Considering the number of Cadian regiments out there, it would easily be possible to write the founding of a "Nova Cadia" or how these Cadians strive to reclaim their lost home. Cadia occupied does not mean Cadia is destroyed, and the "awesomeness" of the Cadians can be tempered with loss and grief.

The Imperium is collapsing. Make it look as if it is. Ultima Macharia is gone, as are others, as the Astronomican recedes, the Emperor may be dying, Abaddon has a foothold this side of the eye, Kryptmann is burning the Imperium in front of Hive Fleet Leviathan, the Tau are on another offensive - let's see some damage!

-I'd give more love to the Salamanders, White Scars, and Iron Hands. Three very unique legions who tend to (quite possibly) be victims of their own uniqueness.

-While I don't have any major qualms with Tyranids as they are, if I were rebooting the setting, I'd probably leave them out. I'm a bit worn down on "super bugs from outer space".

Colonel Jurten wrote: the Emperor may be dying
Abaddon has a foothold this side of the eye

That would be a step back from what we have currently, as in the 5th ed book it was confirmed that the golden throne is failing.

And as someone pointed out, if Abbadon took cadia then GW would have to come up with one hell of an excuse to keep selling cadian models.

That was me waffling. I was not citing new bits of fluff I would invent, but real 40K fluff [Ast. is in one of the codices, UM from Lexicanum, Hive ditto] , however mangled it may have become by me (sorry). I meant, of course, is dying. Abaddon has most of the Cadian system, does he not? Surely we should be hearing more activity - Chaos attacks and so on - perhaps a new fluff series about the aftermath of the 13th BC.

This is what I was trying to say, but put better and more clearly - an Imperium on the road into collapse (although still the Imperium - sort of like the decaying Roman Empire, the title of which, at least, in the form given by the Pope to Charlemagne, lingered until 1803) coming apart as the various factions start to squabble.

Portray the Imperium as even more of a dying Empire in which central authority is failing.

This way we can have the Space Marine factions acting with a lot more autonomy; trying to carve out order, or opportunistically make their own little Empires, or just soldiering on.

Of the new Necron characteristics I like is the inter-conflict they've got going on: I think the Imperium, though officially intact, would benefit from having more visible contentions within it; i.e. the Mechanicum hearing rumours of technology on an Ecclesiarchial world, actually rocking up to it with a fleet and threatening to capture it by force; hell, the two factions can even have a theological dispute over the nature of the Omnissiah.

And the poor Guard is stuck in the middle...

Long story short: It's cooler for command to be removed as it means that the various entities of the Imperium will have to act on their own initiative: Be it well-intentioned conforming to 'the spirit' of what the Imperium tends to want/benefit from, or opportunistic power-building. Sort of like the Galactic Empire during the Warlords Period in Star Wars.

Certainly, the whole Imperium should shakily pull together at times, for instance, against Abaddon - for example, Pope Innocent (sorry for the doses of history) managed to unite Christendom, very rickety, but still an alliance, in the Crusades and the Throne of Earth should still command respect and power, but a long fluff arc of a decaying Imperium coming slowly apart - it would need a good trigger, or some sort of revolt, as the weakness of the Imperium and the Imperial hold would need to be revealed, again slowly (perhaps Terra could bluff through some of the chaos).

Edited for atrocious grammar.

FallenHero32 wrote:Keep it the same, except ADVANCE THE STORYLINE!

By the Emperor! A man after my own heart!

40k doesn't need a reboot, it needs progress! The same old crap keeps being redone and whatever people don't like is merely retconned! What needs to happen is a Victory for Abbadon (for once), and end to the Third War for Armageddon, and a clear cut victor in said war! Does Yarrick finally kill Warboss Gashugfakgh? Do the Blood Ravens discover who their Primarch was? TELL US!

Actually, yes. 40K is fine as-is, but it does need a move on. Then perhaps I and others would be indulged in whatever we want in the advancing fluff,but either way, it would keep us all on our toes, keep the story moving and keep us all interested. I don't mind cliffhangers and interesting asides, but I, and even though I am still a newbie, I think I can speak for everyone, do not like loose ends.

While not being the most experienced in the 40k fluff, as a whole, i must admit there's parts i do enjoy more than others.

However, one thing i do not enjoy, when contemplating fresh new ideas, implemented into the universe, is lack of respect for the already-written. If you're doing radical changes towards something, you damn better be prepared to explain why these changes finds place, within the given storys boundaries. Going as far as to re-write something, saying that the previous never found place.

Yes - progress not with respect, GW, another ret-con. I won't say anymore on this topic as I have been banging on for three posts now, but I think a consensus here would be progress.

Well, If I were to re-boot 40k I would make all of the Alien races so much of a threat to the Imperium in gameplay terms that it would be hard for the Imperial Codexes to win. Not saying impossible, just hard. As it stands now, Imperial codexes seem to be winning all over the place while the Xenos languish in the laughter of people who play things like Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Blood Angels....

If the Xenos races are supposed to be such a threat to the Imperium, lets see it reflected in the codex design.

Why are the Tyranids, Tau, Eldar, Orks, Chaos etc thought of as bad playable armies in 40k? Why are they not a bigger threat to the Imperium?

If I could re-boot 40k, I would make them incredibly dangerous to Imperial Armies just to reflect how precarious the Imperiums grasp on the Galaxy really is.

Make everything smaller...

Like population sizes, ships, tanks etc... An example of this is the Emperor Class BS... Why does it have million of people on it?

Also...

I hate how everything is depicted as bulky... Armor, guns, ships, vehicles etc...

Not everything is bulky, just everything Human-made

That's actually a common theme in a lot of sci-fi.

Look at the human ships on Babylon 5, for example, and compare them to the Minbari, Shadows, Vorlons... Humans build clunky-ass tin cans, and the IOM is characterised by it's clunky WW1 vibe.

The sizes issue is true enough. IOM overcompensation again

How many tech adepts does ot take to change a glow-panel?

1.5 Million. One to perform the delicate ritual of unscrewing, and the rest to chant 'rhubarb' ominously in overlapping chorus.

Bigger shoulder guards. They're too small.

usmcmidn wrote:Make everything smaller...

Like population sizes, ships, tanks etc... An example of this is the Emperor Class BS... Why does it have million of people on it?

Also...

I hate how everything is depicted as bulky... Armor, guns, ships, vehicles etc...

it has a hundred thousand on it at the most, not a million.

they are to run the ship and board enemy ships. plus, you need many many backup layers of crewmen since they die so often.

Progress? Advancement?

Reboot 40 k hmmmmm

Unify the black library and GW fluff so its not so inconsistent

or

Return the IG to 3rd edition codex and make the Armored Company codex official as well for IG - Put the 2 codecies in one book.

ATM we have situations where in a 2000 point game you are fighting almost 150 guarsmen with straken and 6 LRBTs - its crazy

well, to be fair, the guard are pretty known for their troop spam

I would have more interaction between races. The war focus has divided the universe into these factions that don't do anything except shoot at each other. It loses the way Rogue Trader had a more gritty, varied universe. Space marines using eldar technology. Tau trading with humans. Orks lost a lot of civilization they once had.

I'd make Orks more barbarians and less "orky". I know I've enjoyed the way orks evolved into funny, dumb, lucky fools, but it's taken them too far so now you can't even imagine them interacting with humans or eldar except int the most rediculous way. I hate to say it, Orks need to be smarter and show a side that is not all about big guns and loud noises. Gretchin are there for the comic relief. They need to be more wicked and - human.

The IoM has strict xenophobic policies that make sense for Space Marines, but the rest of the IoM wouldn't care to be as strictly "kill the alien". You an still be grim dark without having such huge divisions between the factions. Chaos is all or nothing. Xeno influence is all or nothing. I'd like to see much more corruption and influence between all of them. Show how most imperial worlds are more than happy to harbor aliens and be corrupted by xenos and chaos when the inquisitorial people aren't around. Less of the 'you found a speck of chaos? nuke the globe' that just gives the impression that imperial worlds can be pure. they should all be tainted by chaos. All should have xeno influnces.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

The IoM has strict xenophobic policies that make sense for Space Marines, but the rest of the IoM wouldn't care to be as strictly "kill the alien". You an still be grim dark without having such huge divisions between the factions. Chaos is all or nothing. Xeno influence is all or nothing. I'd like to see much more corruption and influence between all of them. Show how most imperial worlds are more than happy to harbor aliens and be corrupted by xenos and chaos when the inquisitorial people aren't around. Less of the 'you found a speck of chaos? nuke the globe' that just gives the impression that imperial worlds can be pure. they should all be tainted by chaos. All should have xeno influnces.

That already exists. Some governors or Generals are willing to use xeno tech. Its heavily frowned upon, however.

Make the Tau more significant on a galactic scale. Like, make the Empire bigger etc.

I have been drooling over the pages of this thread for some time now, contemplating the ideas.

In regards of my previous post, I cannot lay enough stress on one aspect; Having competent writers write the fluff. Time and again, I've experienced authors completely mangling existing story, simply because it didn't suit their tastes. I find this to be an outrageous act. If you are going to implement radical changes to a story, you at least put in it a certain amount of decency and show your utmost respect for whichever story has already been written.
- This tendency that keeps ruling our day fluff, to simply alter or completely change the story, without as much as a heads up, or in any regard, a red thread, that keeps things together is a ridiculously frivolous and disrespectful attempt to create an interesting progress in the given fluff.

As for the OT-thread, I do enjoy many of the aspects of the existing fluff (disregarding the latter). It's not anything near J. R. R. Tolkien. But I don't feel it NEEDS to either. It shows creativity and a great amount of imagination. To simply put everything together from scrap, for us to enjoy, hasn't been an easy task (Keeping up with it is a whole other story ).

I am not sure I feel any need to completely reboot the 40k universe. But there are fluff I do enjoy more than other. Here are some of my ideas...

Human Factions
- The Realm of Chaos should be portraited, in every regard, as something untouchable and near undefinable.
- The Chaos Factions - both demons and CSM alike - should play a larger role, and pose a much greater thread. I agree that these guys needs to be removed from their so-called "super villain"-role.
- The Space Marines needs some work. In my book, this basically cooks down to what I'd classify as Superman Stereotype (e.g. We know he's mortal, but... It hardly ever shows!). While I do enjoy the concept of our beloved SM's, i can't say I enjoy that feel of them being oh-so-heroic and always pulling through despite the odds. Have them lose once in a while!
- The Imperial Guard deserves a medal! No. Really, what I'd like for them is to have a more vital role, other than always awaiting the Heroic SM's to arrive and to save the day.

Xeno Factions
- The Orks. I simply just love them the way they are. They pretty much work. Savage... Simple-minded... Waaagh'ing... What's not to love about them?
- The Eldar. I can only repeat posts through out this thread; They really need to rely more upon wraithbone constructs and the like. They're few in numbers, at the brink of extinction, and yet, they keep throwing away lives, rather than utilizing their so-called "technological superiority", to serve as either a meat shield or superior weaponry.
- The Dark Eldar, I think, has a great potential of becoming a far, far greater threat to any other faction, than they already are. Their lack of moral and great lust for suffering, combined with their surgical strike capabilities, should provide a solid breeding ground for having them serve as a constant threat. What these guys really need is purpose, rather than just being some torture-craving evil faction, that doesn't do much more than taking liking in suffering and evol deeds!.
- The Tau always seems to finish last, in the big run. Such a small faction, which real survival relies on the bigger factions lack of attention towards them (e.g. they're not even worth the trouble). These guys, together with both the Eldar and the Dark Eldar holds a much greater potential, than what they're currently enlisted as.

I do think that what this cooks down to, as a whole, is a lack of progress. There are too many stereotype examples through out the fluff, as a whole, which could be manipulated and made work. If a given author were to create a greater event within the universe, he's be fertilizing options (depending on the given event). The current fluff more than serves as "fertile soil" to have new stories spring out from. All it really takes is imagination, creativity, and most important; respect for what has been already written.

So what the fluff ultimately starves from is a controversial event, laying new grounds for small and large factions alike, to act on and play a vital role in. The real progress would be to break the stereotypes, that has been formed in nowadays fluff.

Magic wand in hand, I would want to change the nids. I like the idea behind nids, but they come off too human or too robot like. When you see them holding guns, it takes away from them.

Ascalam wrote:
How many tech adepts does ot take to change a glow-panel?

1.5 Million. One to perform the delicate ritual of unscrewing, and the rest to chant 'rhubarb' ominously in overlapping chorus.

Hehe, this is the best thing said in the whole thread.


Changes I would make off hand id to make fluff a bit more uniform, to much clash, ships are 5 Km long...no this book has one at 30 meters and the like. And I know I am gonna get alot of hate off this one but....I hate the IoM aesthetics. SM are goofy and cartoon with shoulder pads I feel that are hampering and useless. Almost every tank made is goofy, its just awful ww1 style tanks over and over. I mean the tech is suppose to be reliable and so advanced people do not even understand it all that well, it sure as hell should look it. The admech have this 1980's-1990's cyber vibe going with clunky cyber and wires EVERYWHERE. Yet the machines as a whole have a ww1 vibe. I would make em look about the same era, a 80-90's style tank would look very 40k...just throw some skulls on it.

I do agree the eldra should be using something other then warm bodies as well., Orks are fine as is. The tua should also have a larger foot hold I feel. I mean they understand their tech after all.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:4 - Swap Tau for Demiurge - I'm sorry I know that Tau have their fans but they've had almost 10 years and have not caught my interest. Steampunk/diesel punk space dwarfs would.

You Sir... Most certainly have my vote!

But also, I'd have the squats evolve into the Demiurg rather than get eaten... as that was just stooopid...

Oh and what I'd alter is The Hive Mind somehow gets prescience and stops the "Cruddace" threat before it happens


Joking aside, I wouldn't want to see the Necrons in a reboot. As, personally, I find them too much "Undead in space" for my liking.