Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So despite some minor retcons 40k has manage to be a fairly consistent ongoing story for 25 years. The only really overt retcon I can think of is the RT Ultras vs the 2nd edition Ultras and even that can be handwaved as Imperial censorship.

But let's say 40k was being rebooted, you, YES YOU, get to decide what goes and what changes. You don't have to care who you piss off, or what fluff you invalidate, this is a reboot.

So what changes would you want to see in 40k fluff?

(note, please don't say 'lore' please, lore makes it sound like we're taking this waaaay too seriously)

For the record here's mine...


1 - Space Marines to Astartes - Ban the term marine, a marine by definition fights on water and honestly Space Marine is no better than Galactic Commando or Star SEAL, we're just too used to it to notice. Even Space Legionnaires would be better. And it would mean we could rename the Ultramarines which has to be the worst pun in the entire game.

2 - Astartes do not have tanks - Astartes should be an orbital strike force with drop pods, drop ships and the like. They should not be driving around in lightly armored APCs.

3 - Astartes are powerful - Make the models closer to Chapterhouse's recent 'true scale' marine, and make them tougher in rules, a marine army should have no more than 20 models in a normal game.

4 - Swap Tau for Demiurge - I'm sorry I know that Tau have their fans but they've had almost 10 years and have not caught my interest. Steampunk/diesel punk space dwarfs would.

5 - Dying races don't have cannon fodder - So Space Elfs, you're dying off darn shame about that. So why in heck are you sending out your untrained civilians with 5+ armor and guns with 12" range? Replace them with some sort of Wraithbone robots that fill that role.

6 - The ∞ Chaos Gods - OK the big 4 can stay but they're just 4 among many, many, many

7 - Horus was right - Build in some more sympathy for the traitor legions, the Imperium is interesting because of the interaction between necessity and evil. Chaos is dull because it's just evil, evil, evil. And don't even get me started on the Dark Eldar...

I agree exactly with all of those except 4. Here's what I have to add to that.

1. Chaos doesn't want to obliterate the universe. That's stupid. Even Nurgle, the god of decay, wouldn't do that, because he thrives on the rebirth that decay brings.

2. Abaddon is more successful. You can't have the codex talk about him as the ultimate son of chaos and bringer of the Apocalypse if all you ever do is list all of his failures. They need to have him destroying chapters like DomBread and other big stuff.

3. Horus didn't fall to Chaos because he was easily lied to. He fell because of the freedom Chaos offers to follow your emotions/impulses and do whatever the hell you feel like, damn the consequences. After all, he had spent his entire following regulations and the like.

4. Astartes are less heroic. They've been getting brighter and softer lately. It needs to be made clear that no matter how badass they are, they're ultimate just mindless pawns in a galaxy spanning war with no end in sight. Most of the freethinking Astartes have either died, turned to Chaos or simply gone AOL at this point.

5. Daemon Princes can perma-die, it's just difficult. I dunno, I dislike the idea of immortality. Even though I'm a big Chaos fan, I think that even these big guys shouldn't be immortal.

Add a little Common Sense to everyone in the Imperium

my reboot of 40K:

marines to astartes.
female astartes (though not as prevelant but better psykers/astartes sister of silence)
necrons back to old fluff and diversified better
more chaos gods/gods residing in the warp all with their own statlines.
daemon primarchs (with a warp version of phase out)
a black crusade that actually did something....

I've run out of ideas I might come back and add to this list sometime

I really like Kid_Kyoto and LoneLictor’s suggestions. I would like to reiterate them as well as add the following:

1. Greater emphasis on the corrupt nature of the imperium – The imperium is not the last bright shining star of the galaxy but rather a force that wishes to whole heartedly control/conquer the galaxy completely through brute force.

2. Imperium no longer the top dog – The current “comic book” style fluff of 5th edition portrays the imperium as the victorious dominant faction. The new fluff should be re-worked to make all factions truly equal (ala Warmachine) which in turn would create a more cataclysmic feel in the 40k universe.

3. Luthor was right – Build greater emphasis into the Dark Angels fluff that the Lion was the real traitor and Luthor was merely rebelling to outline that fact.

4. Fluff no longer stagnate – Stories IMO should always move forward, not backwards or stay the same. As old secrets are revealed, new ones could rise to take their place. Yes, Mephiston is really a Daemon Prince but who is his patron and what’s his end game.

5. Draigo Draigo Draigo, I made you out of clay – Seriously, not only is this guys fluff insane, it’s also incredibly paper thin and out of place in the 40k universe. Draigo’s current fluff would be deleted and replaced with new fluff portraying Draigo as a believable leader more akin to Marinus Calgar/Logan Grimnar (rather than a Mary Sue akin to Chuck Norris).

6. New Ultra fluff – yes the current Ultra fluff lacks depth and is somewhat bland. Their “best of the best of the best” theme is out of place with the 40k universe. I would rework the fluff to play more heavily into the “Roman” aspect of their fluff. They would be a Romanesque legion obsessed with conquering planets with a dark/suspicious nature akin to the Dark Angels.

7. Playable Mechanicus/Dark Magos Army – As a very popular faction, with NO in game presence whatsoever, it makes complete sense to give them a presence in the tabletop. Their fluff would also be re-worked to portray them as a mercenary faction willing to sell their technology to the highest bidder, which happens to currently be the Imperium/Traitor Legions. Their codex would also emulate this and function like the Mercenaries army book in Warmachine.

Make the Imperium use common sense more often is a great one. Im all okay for a Commissar but when they are shooting more of their own men than the enemy you have a problem. Less of science is evil (its one thing to not remember how to make somethings but to consider it blasphemny when you try to experiment... thats fething slowed)

Make Abaddon WAY more successful.

Make Tau a LITTLE bit more dark.

Eldar play style needs to be changed slightly, no cannon fodder if you are a dying race was a good statement

Make it clear that Guardsmen are actually highly competant and well equiped, its just that when compared to Space Marines they are kind of screwed.



Oh there is nothing wrong with the term Space Marine. Im tired so I wont go into detail but generally the Marines work with the navy and the Navy in space is still considered the navy as they treat space like water *shrugs*

Less emphasis on Marines in general. Of course even if the IoM starts to decline in power (which I really hope it does) they'll stay the "main characters" of the 40k universe, but the Marines are such a tiny and relatively insignificant part of the Imperium. There are only about a million of them and they have nearly half the codexes? I don't think so. I also totally agree about the Mechanicus, I love them.

Ban term space marine
Competent guardsmen
Darker Tau
Progressive fluff
People not being "Pants-on-head" retardeddd about technology
The use of the primarchs returning in fluff
Mechanicus Faction

Keep it the same, except ADVANCE THE STORYLINE!

Add in an enormous amount of rival human factions instead of the dumb-emperor, so we can get actual substantial differences rather than just differently themed space marines.

Add a human faction a mix between the tau and the Imperial Guard.

A seperatist independent humans with a sizable empire, that still hold the dominence of humanity, but are against all the stupid things of the Imperium.

Also, demonstrate that guardsmen are pretty badass. Not scared teenagers that sprint forward and act as cannon fodder.

I kind of would like to see more renegade astartes, like going out to build their own empires rather than serving the corpse on the throne. More autonomy for astartes!

If I can't have that then....

I would like to see the imperium, actually the mechanicum, become more desperate in tech and actually invent things rather than going out and hoarding technology. I would rewrite the mechanicum to actually LEARN and reinvent and move forward with technology. They can keep the whole holy tech religious stuff but INVENT! In the name of the machine god!

And I would like to see more stuff on the dark cog boys...

Orks are fine as it

Nids, maybe tweak a little bit of the space travel stuff

Necrons, no clue

Tau, would actually like to make them even more naive... like absolute nubs... just for the hell of it.

Chaos, more gods or more independent greater daemons, evil isn't just rage sex disease and trickery.
Chaos needs a few more facets, I think. More variety

I like many of the ideas so far, adding in my own.

Admit in the core concept it is fantasy races in space and don't be afraid of tongue in cheek moments.
Keep the Squats and have the Mechanicus be less creepy and dumb.
Have the Eldar use more remote presence / robots in their order of battle as every Eldar life is long lived and to few to be wasted in futility.
Find out that the Tau are far older and created the Orks and are manipulating them to attack the IoM.
Have Sisters of battle be optional choices in IG armies.
Redesign the look of certain vehicles so that they make more sense in terms of the physics of battle in the far far future.

Support Epic Armagedon once more because it gave so much to the skirmish scale of 40k in terms of vehicles and needs of the larger battlefield. Besides more games more sales.

Make Catachans the new focus of guard fluff.
Make a Space Marines megadex that is about 300 pages long and can be customised in any way possible.
Make the Gorgon a DT for guard outside of apocalypse.
Have an Imperial Schism that makes two major factions and hundreds of splinter factions.
Tell the tyranids to sod off

Remove Space Marines as an army. There simply isn't enough of them for that. They should be relegated to elite units in Imperial armies.

Ban the term "Fluff." Playing this game outside of my circle of friends would be much more enjoyable to me if people took the background story more seriously.

Have humanity in far less control of the galaxy. That would make it easier to introduce more alien race armies. It's ridiculous that Fantasy has more diverse armies than 40k.

Take away the fact that the Eldar are a "dying race." I would have them control a large section of the galaxy.

Take away successor chapters and generic renegade marines. Only the original legions are present and all marines are part of those original legions.

I would alter the way the Eldar play. If they are dying out, they need to reflect that. They should fight like Chaos Dwarves in WHFB... a few Eldar models in the army, then everything else is Wraithguard constructs or non-Eldar conscripts or mercenaries.

I'd make the Orks more intelligent. They have lost more than just their humorous tone as time goes by... they've lost about 40 IQ points as well. That needs to be rectified. They should'nt be smarter than a human, but they should be much closer to human intelligence than to Ogryn "intelligence".

I'd bring the Squats back, and make them full-on WHFB Dwarves in space... the current crop of WHFB Dwarves aren't a source of comedy, and are suitably dark enough to be transported directly into space. I know, I know, GW doesn't want 40K to be a direct correlation of Fantasy In Spaaace... except, wait... what's that? Necrons are Tomb Kings in spaaaaace, now? Yeah, feth you GW. Dwarves in space is not an inherently stupid idea, we need them back. Just don't make them drunken redneck bikers again, and you'll be fine.

I like the Adeptus Mechanicus being largely ignorant of technology, but I don't like the whole "invention and innovation is THE DEVIL" attitude they have. Somebody mentioned "pants-on-head-retar.ded" earlier. If you look that term up in the online dictionary, there's a picture of an AdMech techpriest right next to it...

Marines being called marines is fine. The US Marines (and Royal Marines) fight on land, too. They even fight on land when there's no water around for hundreds of miles. "Marine" is a general term that implies hardassery. It can stay.

Chaos doesn't need nuance. It's batgak insane from the word go. What it needs is a champion who isn't an armless failure. Since the setting and story never advance, Abbaddon will forever be stuck in his Saturday Morning cartoon villain role, perpetually shaking his fist in impotent rage at the heroes who have yet again foiled his plans for galactic domination. Replace that loser with a competent champion, who is currently building the strength needed to begin his massive invasion of the IoM. If your story never advances (and it never will) then make your bad guy's champion a guy who is gathering power, but hasn't made his move yet. That way, he hasn't built a reputation for losing; only winning. Yeah, he'll never take over the IoM, or even really try (thanks to the frozen solid storyline) but at least you can feel less embarrassed about using him in your army.

Erase Draigo from existence. In fact, scrap the entire GK concept and just make them SM who are specialized in daemon slaying. Not the current "super-incorrupt snowflakes that are incorrupt in their incorruptibility and can use xeno and daemon tech with impunity because they are super" baloney. Jumping Emperor on a pogo stick, Matt Ward, I bet you wanted to make the GK sparkle in sunlight, too...

I'd give the Ultramarines a drawback. Not a genetic one, there are enough of those running around right now. I mean a social/philosophical one. Like, make them so tied to the Codex Astartes that they can't improvise in situations that aren't covered, so they end up losing battles that they should've won. The Codex is their holiest of holy tomes, and they refuse to entertain the idea that it might be a little flawed in places... so they get smacked around from time to time.

The Imperial Guard are fine, but I would actually give the army list the flexibility and scope that it had in the previous codex. If you wanted an army of feral world CC specialists, you could do it. It wasn't smart, but you could do it. I want that ability back.

Otherwise everything else can stay as it is.

I like this thread...

It's a lot easier to see what people like and don't like without being yelled at for being dumb, sure I don't agree with some of these but hey! The reasoning behind this is pretty cool though XD

Finally.a constructive thread involving the 40k universe.

Imperium

General - Get rid of the ecclesiarchy, have religion wiped out in favor of something that makes sense. Like science. Psykers aren't feared, they're heralded as defenders of humanity and are treated exceptionally. Arbites police planetary governments as well as their populations (think Judge Dredd). Warp transit isn't dangerous for any ship with a Gellar field, those that don't have one are subjected to the powers of Chaos and can be claimed by demons.

Marines - I like the idea of them just being Astartes. A specialist fighting force that handles demonic incursions, 'nid invasions, Necron worldships, etc. They're constantly moving and they don't garrison worlds, they're purely a mobile fighting force. Any losses are replaced via IG ST members. Ranks in the Astartes are granted via combat prowess and battlefield tactics, the army as a whole is taught to think outside the box, employ any tactic to defeat an enemy (like they don't already).

Note: Grey Knights are no more. The training and equipment they have access to currently is limited can be used in times of some serious gak going down.

Imperial Guard - As diverse as can be. Strict orders concerning battlefield conduct and strategy (no meatgrinders allowed). Soldiers are taught of the horror's they face as to better understand their enemies, know thy enemy and all that.

Mechanicus - None of this secretive crap they've got going now. They're their own entity withing the giant machine that is the IoM so therefor, they put out just like everyone else. Mechanicus armies are commonplace, oftentimes fighting alongside IG, which would force us to see more of the different Mechanicus weapons (ordinatus anyone?). Again, knowledge is power.

Inquisition - Scrapped totally. I've never liked how Inquisitors are prone to doing stupid gak like summoning demons for the greater good, or wiping out a planet because it looks funny. I don't have an answer for their roll, because something similar is needed.

Emperor - Either have him be a ruler or get rid of him. Having him be some bag of bones on a port 'o potty is just a cop out.

Xenos

Eldar - I agree about the Eldar just throwing away Guardians like they're candy. Dying race my ass.

Orks - Fantastic the way they are.

'Nids - I'm torn here. I'd like to have some more background on where they came from (not just, "They're from space."). But having them as some sort of unstoppable tide of doom is still a good idea.

Necrons - Reboot. Back to the Terminators. None of this personality crap from the new 'dex, these guys are negativity in the extreme. They're here to cleanse the galaxy.

Tau - Give'em a bigger chunk of the pie or lose them entirely. As of right now, they're just a speck in the IoM's eye. Lose the mind control and make their society sort of Spartan in a sense. Everyone has their day job, but can be called on for military service if need be.

Dark Eldar - Again, dying race. But rather than actually accomplishing anything, all they do is screw and torture. Kind of a stupid reason to exist, fun, but stupid. Rather than their own faction, make it a sub faction of Eldar. Lots of the same ideas, just darker about how they go about it.

Chaos - Collection of powerful sorcerers, or something akin to that. Not gods in their own right, but powerful enough to warrant godlike attention.

Traitors - Some work with Chaos, but most just don't agree on how things are run and fight to liberate humanity from a system that they believe, doesn't work. They're not all psychotic, or spikey, or insane toolsheds that 99% of traitors are now.


It would be awesome if there was a way to implement changes like what we want, it would make some of the stupid gak just not so stupid.

^ I have to disagree on the Astartes being called 'Space Marines'.

I'm reading an excellent series right now, The Lost Fleet. It's basically a starship naval combat series. The ships each have their own group of Marines, who act as Marines did in the traditional sense - shipboard security and rapid deployment infantry that could strike quickly from wherever the Navy decided to drop anchor. I'd argue that the Imperial Navy has its Marines, but that the 'Space Marines' should be called something else. 'Astartes' or 'Adeptus Astartes' just sounds cooler.

Stop retconning the fluff. Leave the poor thing be and write some more, rather than changinf existing events.

The IOM is losing. The fluff should reflect this. Instead of a list of their victories they shold have a list of valiant last stands and phyrric victories.

FIre Ward. Not trying to make this a hate thread, but the guy doesn't have a clue. (please don't jump on this and argue it- personal opinion only )

Orks are more or less good as is, but a return to the oldschool wackiness would be nice, maybe as a supplement. I miss stuff like Pulsa Rokkits and Hop Splat guns. Proper Looted Wagons would be nice.

Return Necron fluff to it's previous creepy horror vibe, rather than the Tomb King wannabe vibe they now have. You could even keep most of the new units, but lose the goofy fluff.

Let the Nids actually win sometimes. They always seem to be being stopped/wiped out/diverted...

Return Grey Knights to the puritan badasses they were before the crappy fluff rewrite, and just erase Draigo. Stern was cool. Draigo is just fething rediculous.

Keep the uber players out of the fluff. Primarchs (light and dark) should only be taken on by other primarchs/gods/etc.

If you must have them fight a named SC, the SC shold LOSE, as they aren't supposed to be that godly, and still be credibly playable.

1. Chaos army needs to be a little more than just "the evil guys"

2. Make the Necrons creepy again

3. fething update Eldar and Tau

4. Give space marines a little more personality.

5. Make the Imperium actually look like they're losing.

6. Give the Imperial Guard more credit instead of putting them the Space Marines shadow.

That's all i can think of off the top of my head.

If i could reboot 40,000
1. remake the architechture. uses the original 40,000 (1st edition) instead of Goth Tech.
2. re-write the SM background, make female SM available. this equals elimination of the very unsuccessful Sisters of Battle.
and merge it with the Imperial Navy.
3. re-write I.G. entry, rename it to Imperial Army but have a very limit access to aircraft and skimmers.
3.1 Elite choices (Special Forces) can now don a power armor.
3.2 new weapon. Squad-level Automatic weapons.
3.3 make underslung grenade launcher available again. while Frag grenade is default weapon along with lasrifle. upgrading frag grenade to underslung GL costs a considerable points.
3.4 Jeeps, bikes, and sidecars become available.
3.5 Dedicated field guns, now being Heavy Support and not Infantry-platoon HW anymore... think of Thudd gun, Rapier heavy laser. field guns and howitzers.
3.6 Main battle tank weapon systems: bow-mounted weapons become optional rather than a default weapons, while coax MG is now default ones. pintle mounts weapons remain available
3.7 Medic can now be added to infantry sections, conscripts and veterans.
3.8 APC/IFV can be upgraded to medical vehicles.
3.9 Infantry section can take carapace armor upgrades
3.10 and can also swap lasrifles for shotguns for FREE!...
3.11 Sarges can now take long guns (lasrifle and bolter)
3.12 Stormbolters become available to a commander again
3.13 Sentinels can now take "double weapons", also Assault cannon becomes available to this unit again.
4. re-write A.I.-Robot entry. made them being 'enslaved' again rather than being totally eliminated.
5. Kicks out a messy Ecclessiarchy.

Fricking Necrons that actual die for good when you melt them or rip e'm apart with basilisk fire.

1- GK don't exist as an army. Back in the Daemonhunters codex they go.

2- Draigo doesn't exist and the GK don't use daemon weapons. That was a stupid idea that clearly contradicted their hatred of everything Chaos.

3-Some new Chaos fluff. It'd be nice if it didn't just involve them losing but being EVIL while doing it.

I'd ban the term "Astartes", actually. Using that word makes you sound like you take 40k very, very seriously.
Compare:
"Those guys are called 'space marines', they run around and blow gak up"
and
"Those guys are Astartes, loyal servents of the god-emperor of bla-bla-bla I haven't washed in weeks"
Would definitely like to see more "sympathy" for chaos, though. Rather than "those guys are definitely the bad guys". Okay I get that within the narritive the Imperium regard them (quite rightly) as bad guys, but objectively there should be more ambiguity. Not every chaos guy needs to go around lopping peoples' heads off all of the time. See "Traitor General" by Dan Abnett (a Gaunt's Ghosts book) as an example of Chaos in a more pragmatic light.

1: Tau are expansionist let them expand like there is no tommorow not 1 world at a time fire cast are subject to hyperselective breeding reflect that to their strength they get ultra training and highly advanced targetting allow them to hit once in a time

2: the thousand sons. magnus never was a bad guy he was forced out by his dad and the rubric was there to save his men he didnt want them to turn into monsters

3: no matt ward ultramarine and necron lovefest. necrons are terminators not kindhearted bitches of the ultramarines

4: give me more regiments for imperial guard and stuff like if you choose a regiment from a dead world make them better in every aspect but make them way more expencive more light on trench warfare with krieg they play limitless attratation allow krieg to like take combat ingeneers and dig in when they are on the defensive

5: eldar equels dying race not we got plenty of guardiens just throw them into the meatgrinder

6: this is a damn must add the fing mechanicum and dark mechanicum with like knights as expensive heavy support

and lastly add the damn renegade imperial guard half of the imperial army turns to chaos they all disappear after the heresy. Please do not circumvent our word filter. Thanks Manchu

admiral9 wrote:

2: the thousand sons. magnus never was a bad guy he was forced out by his dad and the rubric was there to save his men he didnt want them to turn into monsters

3: no matt ward ultramarine and necron lovefest. necrons are terminators not kindhearted bitches of the ultramarines

2 : Its already that way actually. It adds to the GrimDark setting of the game that a "good" legion such as the Thousand Suns gets prosecuted for something they never did.

3: Have you even read the newcron dex? The necrons are not the Ultramarines "bitches". If anything, they will bend UM over their metahl bawkes and proceed to probe them vigorously with a tesla coil. The crons are not kindhearted, they are not marine lovers, and they will totally feth up any non-necron that gets between them and their objective.

Anyway, my pick

--Get rid the newcron's dependency of the dolmen gates. That was a really dumb idea that didn't make any sense. For tactical reasons, sure, but a reliance? They can manipulate time and space, and they can't open up a friggen worm hole? Comeon!

--The Triarch can stuff it as well.

More on reboots
1. Squats returns!
2. the IoM becomes factinalized. tories (xenophobes) and the reformists (mankind and aliens should learn to coexists)
3. Eldars and Dark Eldars wear power armors as standard gears. if someone says they're dyin' race and need a deadlier standard troops (one that matches Space Marines) not a weak 'guardian' line infantry.
4. Introduction of non-Imperial human factions. and neither this one joins with Chaos nor xenos.

Lone Cat wrote:More on reboots

3. Eldars and Dark Eldars wear power armors as standard gears. if someone says they're dyin' race and need a deadlier standard troops (one that matches Space Marines) not a weak 'guardian' line infantry.

Hell's no!
The strength of the Eldar comes from their speed and ranged power. Giving them power armor standard will just make them into acrobatic marines, and that is just...damn. C.S Goto level dumb, to be exact.
I do agree that guardians need a boost, however. Maybe a 4+ save, with some sort of shield wargear, a la Dawn of War II.