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Basimpo wrote:Steelmage99 am i in the wrong thread? Is this YMDC? Correcting people over the internet is surprise surprise another "douche" internet "thug" thing to do.
Are you an english teacher? If so, what makes you think you can go out like an errant knight and slay bad grammar?
If you are not an english teacher of some sort, what makes you think you are qualified to correct people? The intent of the words i said was there 100% irregardless of how i said them.
Please dont try to side track people with inane, unasked for, and unqualified corrections that serve no purpose to further the discussion.

You seem like you'd be a really fun guy to play against.

Steelmage99 wrote:

Basimpo wrote:


If you noticed, i used the word suggest. Not, rules. Furthermore, i could care less about tournaments. That wasnt the topic of what I was saying.

so....you do care about tournaments...

What?

You said; "I could care less about tournaments."

In order for you to care less, you have to care, at least a bit, beforehand. Otherwise how could you start caring to a lesser degree.

The sentence you should have used was; "I couldn't care less for tournaments", as in you are already at the lowest degree of "care" and thus cannot go lower.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Basimpo wrote:

Least you found a place for people to back you up and call you right...But heck ,even child murderers get support from strangers.

Was that really necessary? Really?

Wow...Just wow.

I think some people here need to take a giant step back and remind themselves that THIS IS JUST A GAME. I mean, especially on Vassal...

Seriously, you are now comparing me to a child murderer?...That is quite hilarious.

The funny thing is I am generally against list-tailoring, so I am actually in agreement with Formosa and his friend Basimpo.
90% of the time I play an all-comers list. The other 10% I am experimenting with new units, being a relative new-comer to the game, and I will tailor (depending on your definition) and will be honest about it, as I have said from the start. But IRL I will almost always take an all-comers list since I may one day find myself entering a tournament and so it's just good practice for that. That's my personal feelings on the topic. I honestly have ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE if someone wants to tailor against me; If they ask what army I am playing it's obvious they are going to tailor to some degree - so if I don't like this I can always politely decline a game with them.
Because you see, it's A CHOICE. I do not understand why you do not understand this simple concept. You could decline to play, but instead you chose to subject me and other players to a highly condescending torrent of abuse. You could've walked away, but you didn't. Why? I honestly have no idea. Latent psychological problems? Boredom? Frustration with your life? I have no idea and don't care to be honest. But believe me you now have an appalling reputation on Vassal. Unfortunately though, due to name changing, other players will be subjected to your BS and new players will be put off what is otherwise a great piece of software that helps people learn and playtest the 40k system.

Anyway, I honestly cannot be bothered to waste anymore time on this as I have far better things to do than deal with a couple of whiny kids on a message board. If you don't like list-tailoring and can't treat people with respect (rather than compare them to child murderers lol!), just walk away or find another hobby.

FH

I've never used the same army twice. I'm fine with tailoring. I know my friend loves playing Dark Angels with lots of bikes so I build against it. At the same time, he knows I'm a mobile Guard player so he builds against it. But we are not allowed to see each others army list until we are both done and at that point there is no changing lists.

SDFarsight wrote:Indeed, list-tailoring is wrong, but there's nouthing wrong with army-tailoring.

The problem with army tailoring is that it leads to lots of assumptions.

How do you tailor against a C:SM army? You might be facing lots of:
T4Sv4+
T4Sv3+
T4Sv2+
AV11 tanks
AV13 tanks
AV14 tanks
AV10 skimmers
AV13 skimmers that are immune to melta
walkers

So you need to be able to deal with a bunch of infantry, some guys with 2+ saves, light, medium and heavy armour as well as walkers. That's an all-comers list.

Even less flexible codexes like Orks - do you gear up for Kan wall horde orks or for battlewagon rush orks or for MANZ spam? Or a little of all of them - that's an all-comers list again.

There really isn't a lot you can do with only knowledge of the codex you'll be playing. Generally, that knowledge is coloured by knowledge of what models that player has or what's common for that codex.

Most of my mid-game table-wipes have been against people who thought that they could army-tailor, unfortunately for them they found themselves up against a list very different to their assumptions and it's usually at that point that they start to get irate.

Scott-S6 wrote:

SDFarsight wrote:Indeed, list-tailoring is wrong, but there's nouthing wrong with army-tailoring.

The problem with army tailoring is that it leads to lots of assumptions.

How do you tailor against a C:SM army? You might be facing lots of:
T4Sv4+
T4Sv3+
T4Sv2+
AV11 tanks
AV13 tanks
AV14 tanks
AV10 skimmers
AV13 skimmers that are immune to melta
walkers

So you need to be able to deal with a bunch of infantry, some guys with 2+ saves, light, medium and heavy armour as well as walkers. That's an all-comers list.

Even less flexible codexes like Orks - do you gear up for Kan wall horde orks or for battlewagon rush orks or for MANZ spam? Or a little of all of them - that's an all-comers list again.

There really isn't a lot you can do with only knowledge of the codex you'll be playing. Generally, that knowledge is coloured by knowledge of what models that player has or what's common for that codex.

Most of my mid-game table-wipes have been against people who thought that they could army-tailor, unfortunately for them they found themselves up against a list very different to their assumptions and it's usually at that point that they start to get irate.

Indeed, it gives you some information (the army's archetype) but not enough to say 'I know that they're going for footslogger spam, so I'll take X unit/weapons to counter it.'

When it comes to specific players, the main aspect is their predictability- even if they have alot of units in their collection you could know that they're a sucker for a certain style of play. Or as Stormfather said:

Stormfather wrote:
This is pretty much how my local gaming group plays it, too. We know who has which army, we all have a general idea about each other's preferences, but our lists are generally made double-blind and before the battle, so you never know exactly what you're going to be facing until after you've committed to your list. You need to keep a take-all-comers core to your army to deal with any surprises, but can customize specific loadouts to what you anticipate your opponent will field.

List tailoring is wrong and cheaty but changing phycic powers is worse if you play nids and they suddenly change machine curse for vortex of doom you loose an advantage

RAVEN 97 wrote:List tailoring is wrong and cheaty but changing phycic powers is worse if you play nids and they suddenly change machine curse for vortex of doom you loose an advantage

What advantage? How is it wrong or cheaty? I mean, I assume they aren't tailoring to beat your specific list so whats the problem?