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Finecast like sprues does not equal Finecast. If you had bad flash, it's because FW QC is some of the worst I've ever seen. Not because they use FC.
Dude I have been purchasing forge world products for nearly 10 fething years.
I wouldn't even relate it to fc if the similarity was only due to it having a sprue.
The material like op mentioned is exactly like fc. The only reason Im not claiming it to be fc is there are no lab test done.
Who even fething care about bad flash? Why is it even relevant? The daemonsmith I received were perfect just for the record.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/06 22:39:24
Chowderhead wrote:
I wouldn't even relate it to fc if the similarity was only due to it having a sprue.
The material like op mentioned is exactly like fc. The only reason Im not claiming it to be fc is there are no lab test done.
If someone has a lab or something, I can send him over the pieces to check them out. So, that this nerdragestorm might cease.
But before I drop it, I have to say that it is very similar to FC. Make what you want out of it. I am out!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/04/06 22:42:24
Kepora wrote:Can we get an admin to please close this thread, but witha post that enforces the point that Forgeworld is NOT changing?
Yes. Ve must have SILENCE!!! Ve must not let ze people say ze things ve dislike! Heil GW!
I am so dumbstruck I can't say anything.
Let's just have this stand by itself so we can all bask in it's insanity.
Thank you. That's far more eloquent than I would have put it. Isn't it funny that I'ma "GW Fanboy" when I'm trying to counter outright anti-GW statements with just simple logic and the facts, as well as statements released from Forgeworld itself?
I don't want this thread closed because it's "Anti-GW" (though it's drawing in the typical anti-GW/Anti-Finecast people it always does); I want it closed because that kind of attention-whoring titling/claiming (stuff like "Forgeworld switching to Finecast") is toxic to the community as a whole, both because it's untrue and it always devolves into the same garbage. It's like....I don't even know how to put it.
ÆΞØИ wrote:The material like op mentioned is exactly like fc.
I would expect to be like FC as well, seeing as how it is also resin. You know, what FC is.
The only reason Im not claiming it to be fc is there are no lab test done.
You won't believe it's not FC unless lab tests are done?
preator24 said already it wasn't. So drop it.
I'm dropping it right here. Gonna go watch The Lion King. Amazing movie.
Someone who buys FW items for about ten years would seem perfectly capable of noticing differences about the material don't you think?
Yet you want to argue with them.
Whether it actually is exactly the same as "Finecast" or not, there appears to be something different about the resin that has been arriving at people's doorsteps.
Kepora wrote:Can we get an admin to please close this thread, but witha post that enforces the point that Forgeworld is NOT changing?
Yes. Ve must have SILENCE!!! Ve must not let ze people say ze things ve dislike! Heil GW! <Salute>
The discussion must continue for one very simple reason: This thread shows GW just how reviled one of their products is compared to another. That should tell them something. I know if people were threatening to boycott my company just because of a rumor that one of my lines was being produced similarly to another line, I'd investigate the offending like ASAP.
Personally I've given up on Warhammer because of GW's screwy practices, but theoretically speaking I could consider buying things from Forgeworld just for the sake of painting them (I liked the basilisk and I have often considered getting a Forgeworld Tau BFG fleet) when I get the money. Forgeworld switching to finecast would guarantee they never see another dime from me.
You are operating under the delusion that GW reads this website, let alone this thread and then assume they care what random internet guys #6743291 thinks. If you want GW to know what you think, write them a letter directly.
This thread is not about GW, it is about FW, and the fact that it has been made clear FW is not using Finecast, any posts about GW or their company policies or products are irrelevant to the thread.
You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
Kepora wrote:Can we get an admin to please close this thread, but witha post that enforces the point that Forgeworld is NOT changing?
Yes. Ve must have SILENCE!!! Ve must not let ze people say ze things ve dislike! Heil GW! <Salute>
The discussion must continue for one very simple reason: This thread shows GW just how reviled one of their products is compared to another. That should tell them something. I know if people were threatening to boycott my company just because of a rumor that one of my lines was being produced similarly to another line, I'd investigate the offending like ASAP.
Personally I've given up on Warhammer because of GW's screwy practices, but theoretically speaking I could consider buying things from Forgeworld just for the sake of painting them (I liked the basilisk and I have often considered getting a Forgeworld Tau BFG fleet) when I get the money. Forgeworld switching to finecast would guarantee they never see another dime from me.
You are operating under the delusion that GW reads this website, let alone this thread and then assume they care what random internet guys #6743291 thinks. If you want GW to know what you think, write them a letter directly.
This thread is not about GW, it is about FW, and the fact that it has been made clear FW is not using Finecast, any posts about GW or their company policies or products are irrelevant to the thread.
THANK YOU! It's like these guys whom supposedly don't buy GW or FW have nothing better to do than insult people who do buy GW/FW products, and just fling more proverbial crap at the buyers when tsiad buyers gouge enormous holes in the crap throwers' arguments...
This thread confuses me. The idea that forge world finecast means GW finecast QC is more a jump to conclusions to me. One bad forgeworld cast isn't realy proof to me, since Forgeworld always have had some QC issues that would crop up.
=/
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/06 23:02:28
Chowderhead wrote:
preator24 said already it wasn't. So drop it
Actually he didn't don't make gak up.
Like me, he aslo thinks the terminator resin feels no different to fc.
Yet we are humble to not claim it been fc due to no test done.
He also edited because he felt its not worth been flamed by rabid fans.
Ever noticed I never complained about the quality?
ÆΞØИ wrote:The material like op mentioned is exactly like fc.
I would expect to be like FC as well, seeing as how it is also resin. You know, what FC is.
The only reason Im not claiming it to be fc is there are no lab test done.
You won't believe it's not FC unless lab tests are done?
preator24 said already it wasn't. So drop it.
I'm dropping it right here. Gonna go watch The Lion King. Amazing movie.
Someone who buys FW items for about ten years would seem perfectly capable of noticing differences about the material don't you think?
Yet you want to argue with them.
Whether it actually is exactly the same as "Finecast" or not, there appears to be something different about the resin that has been arriving at people's doorsteps.
Speaking as someone who has been buying Forge World items for "about ten years", and has bought/handled multiple Finecast models:
The majority of the differences that people are claiming are not evidence of FW altering their resin formulations to match Finecast's. Take this thread for example.
The OP claimed that his models were Finecast because they had miscasts and were on a sprue.
That is evidence not of FW altering their resin formulations to match Finecast's, but of shoddy QC. Rather than contact FW, the poster chose to instead post about it on Dakka and claim that it is Finecast.
Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Cadaver wrote:made clear FW is not using Finecast.
So what are they using?
The resin is not like the previous resin (according to the people who have just received items), it feels similar to said other resin, it has tons of flash and last but not least many a bubblehole.
Let's call this "Forgecast" then, the cousin of "you-know-who"
Kanluwen wrote:Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Contradicting
That is unless in your book, flexibility doesn't clearly spell significant difference in the formula.
Kanluwen wrote:Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Contradicting
That is unless in your book, flexibility doesn't clearly spell significant difference in the formula.
I consider "Alike" and "The Same In Every Way" two different things.
Do you?
Every Normal Man Must Be Tempted At Times To Spit On His Hands, Hoist That Black Flag, And Begin Slitting Throats.
Kanluwen wrote:Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Contradicting
That is unless in your book, flexibility doesn't clearly spell significant difference in the formula.
I consider "Alike" and "The Same In Every Way" two different things.
Kanluwen wrote:Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Contradicting
That is unless in your book, flexibility doesn't clearly spell significant difference in the formula.
I consider "Alike" and "The Same In Every Way" two different things.
Do you?
According to you standards?
Sure. Why not.
Since they are both resin. Have you not see the bold part? There is a rather strong emphasis when he wrote that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/06 23:18:30
Kanluwen wrote:Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Contradicting
That is unless in your book, flexibility doesn't clearly spell significant difference in the formula.
I consider "Alike" and "The Same In Every Way" two different things.
Do you?
Weren't you watching The Lion King
I can't watch Mufasa's death without crying. So I'm not.
Even the audio makes me sad...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ÆΞØИ wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:
ÆΞØИ wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Contradicting
That is unless in your book, flexibility doesn't clearly spell significant difference in the formula.
I consider "Alike" and "The Same In Every Way" two different things.
Do you?
According to you standards?
Sure. Why not.
Since they are both resin.
There are many types of resin.
I can't say we're both the same thing because we're mammals, now can I?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/06 23:16:29
Every Normal Man Must Be Tempted At Times To Spit On His Hands, Hoist That Black Flag, And Begin Slitting Throats.
Kanluwen wrote:Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Contradicting
That is unless in your book, flexibility doesn't clearly spell significant difference in the formula.
I consider "Alike" and "The Same In Every Way" two different things.
Do you?
Weren't you watching The Lion King
I can't watch Mufasa's death without crying. So I'm not.
Even the audio makes me sad...
So basically Mufasa's death is the same as "Finecast"
Kanluwen wrote:Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Contradicting That is unless in your book, flexibility doesn't clearly spell significant difference in the formula.
I consider "Alike" and "The Same In Every Way" two different things.
Do you?
Weren't you watching The Lion King
I can't watch Mufasa's death without crying. So I'm not.
Even the audio makes me sad...
So basically Mufasa's death is the same as "Finecast"
Don't you dare compare Mufasa's death and Finecast!
Finecast is much poorly executed!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/06 23:21:25
Every Normal Man Must Be Tempted At Times To Spit On His Hands, Hoist That Black Flag, And Begin Slitting Throats.
Kanluwen wrote:Then we have the poster claiming that "FW and FC resin are nothing alike"...despite the fact that they are. The only major difference is in the nature of flexibility of the more fiddly parts. You'll mainly notice it in things like swords, spines, etc where in FW resin they will retain the bend that you put into them while heated--but FC's resin is more "springy" and it will return to its original shape.
Contradicting
That is unless in your book, flexibility doesn't clearly spell significant difference in the formula.
I consider "Alike" and "The Same In Every Way" two different things.
Do you?
Weren't you watching The Lion King
I can't watch Mufasa's death without crying. So I'm not.
Even the audio makes me sad...
So basically Mufasa's death is the same as "Finecast"
Don't you dare compare Mufasa's death and Finecast!
Finecast is much poorly executed!
Closer inspection of a freshly purchased "Finecast" miniature usually causes a feeling similar to having to watch Bambi's mother get shot... often 5 times in a row
Forge World wrote:"(...)To address your points, however, we'd like to point out that Forge World do not sell Finecast products; Finecast is a Citadel brand, not a specific type of resin
Note that, in this sentence, Forgeworld does not deny using the same type of resin or casting method that GW uses. They deny that they're using the "Finecast" brand.
Forge World wrote:"Forge World use a huge range of different types of resin and just as wide a range of casting methods depending on the kit in question. You'll note that the resin used for a Titan is very different for that used to produce solid resin scenery, or a smaller resin infantry model, or indeed the new range of hollow resin scenery that we're starting to release.
Again, they're not disclaiming the use of the same type of resin or casting method.
Forge World wrote:What you describe as 'Finecast resin' is simply a different mix, one that we've used for some time for smaller and more detailed models where appropriate.
In fact, Forge World admits that they do use the same resin that GW uses for Finecast for some parts.
Forge World wrote:"The centrifugal casting process used to produce the Citadel Finecast range is again something that Forge World began looking at some time ago; you rightly point out that the traditional drop-casting method is extremely time- and labour-intensive, the spin-casting method is just as involved but the quality checking is rather more critical.
And again, a careful reading shows that Forge World is not disclaiming the use of Citadel's spin-casting method.
Forge World wrote:This has obviously not been performed as stringently as it should have been, but as the Citadel and Forge World production teams are separate we're obviously unable to comment upon, or influence, the policies in place regarding Finecast." - Ead Brown, Customer Service Manager, Forge World, March 7, 2012
And again, they're not discussing whether they use Finecast methods and materials or not. Simply noting that Finecast (the trademarked label) is not being used.
----------
Does Forge World make "Finecast" models? No, quite clearly they don't. That is a registered trademark of Games Workshop and limited to Citadel brand miniatures. This doesn't really mean anything.
Does Forge World use the same type of resin that Games Workshop uses for Finecast? Yes. It is "one that [Forge World has] used for some time for smaller and more detailed models where appropriate."
Does Forge World use the same manufacturing method that Games Workshop uses for Finecast? This is unclear. To quote Forge World: "The centrifugal casting process used to produce the Citadel Finecast range is again something that Forge World began looking at some time ago." Have they adopted it? No idea.
Here's another quote that Kanluwen provided:
[Forge World specifically noted that the Finecast resin mix with its additional 'flex' isn't suitable for manufacturing most of the FW range, although many of the techniques were trialed on some of their heavy weapons teams.
Notice that the Finecast resin isn't suitable for most of the FW line. This does not mean "all."
Is Forge World switching to Finecast? No. But they are using the resin, and may be using the method, for some of their models. The OP certainly could have received a model produced using the same material and methods of Finecast.
Here's what I got from the email...
FW heavily imply that the resin mix used in 'Finecast' has actually been tested and used by FW well before this, and in fact, that there are probably quite a few FW products which use the exact same mix, and have done for some time. They then explain that the method of casting is also used by FW, but that it requires more rigorous quality control, and they are aware of this. And then they suggest that, since the entire Finecast process has been used for some time by FW, that the 'Finecast Problem' is most likely GW's QC (since FW have been using the exact same materials and process for ages without any more complaint than normal).
Seems very honest, without any deception intended or carried out. They infer that every step of the Finecast process is and has been used by FW for some time now. It's just that Citadel's QC isn't as good.
I certainly see no reason to be angry at FW for this, unless you're already biased.
How did this rumour gets started? I wonder if Forgeworld quality control is sinking to new lows, after all what other delimiter could there be except resin products vs notoriously miscast resin products.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
