Play like you've got a pair

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**TheHarleqwin**

azazel the cat wrote: My s/o and I are both feminists who believe that language only has the power that is ascribed to its message; it holds no power in and of itself. Saying a word like "f***" means nothing. Granted, there is a generation of people who believe in the censorship of language, and whom will use all types of arbitrary justifications to do so -manners being one example. However they are not concerned with language itself: they desire social control.

And they are losing.

EDIT: Also, your own attitude and belief that women need to be sheltered and protected from language will do more damage to women's rights than any misogyny could ever hope to do. So as women's freedoms and choices are slowly peeled back across the United States, I hope you recognize that it was allowed in part due to attitudes such as yours.

I wholeheartedly agree with your statements regarding censorship, and though I dislike when people label themselves as supporters of any particular special interest group, I also agree with your statement regarding the sheltering of women. It's unfortunate that there's a large number of people who claim they're for equality, but still hold to divisive thoughts and old-fashioned notions that they misguidedly think of as progressive. As you've stated, the damage done there is worse than any casual use of a bleeding idiom like "play like you've got a pair".

**UsdiThunder**

Deadnight wrote:

i dont think its anything of the kind. I think you're taking things too far, and too literally. that article of yours is scary, and ridiculously over the top. This political correctness garbage wasnt funny 10 years ago, and its certainly not funny now. ISeriously, i think its as dangerous to say that "man up" and "you're the man" are bad things, as you imply here. There is already a crisis of masculinity out there. too many guys are afraid of being guys, and dont know how. too many young lads out there go through a lot of mental torment over what are perfectly natural thoughts and impulses. If you ask me, the last generation of pro-feminist dogma has pushed things too far the other way. It almost feels like "being a guy" is a bad thing. And before you ask, I am not an overly aggressive jock. Im a normal guy. guy friends, girl friends. gay, straight, and strange. I have healthy relationships with both sexes, and firmly believe not in the superiority of one sex over another, but that evolution crafted us to work together and bring different strengths and skills to life's hurdles.
I feel what you've said is dangerous, and symptomatic of a very dangeous and negative attitude. Masculinity is (as you've done here) marginalised, ridiculed and looked down upon. Why? Apparently, its not good enough. you know, its somehow bad to be a guy, and think guy thoughts, and to want to do guy things.... *sigh* A ong time ago, i rebelled against that notion. No, you dont need to be a jerk about being male. YOu dont have to go over the top. But you know what? Its 3 million years of evolution, hormones and wiring that are guiding us. Its not good. Or bad. Good and Bad literally have nothing to do with it. And you know what? Its OK to want to watch "the game". Its OK to enjoy juvenile toilet humour. Its OK to have a ridiculously high sex drive. Its OK to enjoy testosterone fuelled aggressive sports like Rugby and Boxing. Its OK to think she has a nice butt. Its OK to have a Mancave", where you can hide from the world. Its OK to have moments where you shave with a rock, wrestle grizzlies, and punch trees. Its OK to be "a guy". Despite what the PC brigade says, none of that stops you being a well adjusted, stable member of society capable of a good work ethic, honest and valued morals, and the ability to maintain healthy relathionships with the opposite (or the same) sex.

here is page 5.

1) Thou Shalt Not Whine. seriously, more 40k players should take this to heart. there is an internet joke out there that a group of 40k players is called a whine. Look at the GeeDub general discussion page on any 40k page. the constant moaning, complaining and whining ruins the game for me.
2) Come Heavy Or Don't Come At All plat the best game you can. Be aggressive, bring your best, bring your A game, and throw down. thats the ultimate respect you can give me as a friend and opponent.
3) Give As Good As You Get self explanitory. go down fighting. dont wimp out. Be as good as you can be. Play the best players, and constatly seek to up your game.
4) Win Graciously And Lose Valiantly. seems a mighty fine ethos.
5) Page 5 Is Not An Excuse the crux of the matter. anyone using page 5 as an excuse to be a jerk, quite simply, is a jerk. and they were jerks before page 5 came along. doing what he's doing completely misses the point of page 5. to be honest, i dont see how any of that can be taken to encourage anything other than a good attitude towards your opponents.

seriously people. this is what Page 5 is all about. Its about making it the best game possible for you and your opponents. Its nothing but a positive attitude to bring to your games, and one that IMO, if more people had, would make this a bigger and better hobby.

HEY OP READ PAGE 5!!! Please, for the love of Pie!!!

It just takes one thin skinned person to ruin the fun that can be had. This whole thing about Mysogyny, is utterly crippling men nowadays. My father raised me to be a man. I open doors for women and I get told off, I hold my wife's chair for her and some lady give me a dirty look, What the feth happened? You show respect to women, and it's Misogyny. You treat Women like crap and it's Mysogyny. Are you kidding me? This also destroys the ability to build comraderie within groups. Because when everyone is afraid to say the wrong thing, no trust can be built. This has programmed the people of this world to be sheeple. Easily controlled with as little as false moral outrage. Maybe that's what the OPs true intentions are?

You know what though, I'm an Ork player and I maybe thickheaded like my Boyz. We only know how to play Orky and that is the epitome of Page 5. So if "Play like you have a pair" offends then I say "Fight like an Ork!!!"

Orkz is made fer' two fings! Fightin', and winnin'!

**helium42**

12thRonin wrote:
helium42 wrote:Nobody is trivializing rape. Language constantly evolves and rape is a term that has developed multiple meanings, like so many other words. Some people need to really work on having a thicker skin if the mere mention of a word in certain context can set them off.

Be in a room with a woman who's suffered that and some frat kid shouts "I just raped your ass!!!" in the middle of a game store. See how that works out. Yeah, she needs the thicker skin to deal with how she was violated.

Better yet, walk in to the hood and scream out a series of n-bombs and see how long you live. That word has developed multiple meanings after all too.

There are obviously times to use and not use language of this sort. I doubt you'll find a rape victim's counseling group meeting at your FLGS, so as long as you know your opponent, it should be a pretty safe place to do a little trash talking of that nature.

**TheHarleqwin**

UsdiThunder wrote:
Orkz is made fer' two fings! Fightin', and winnin'!

An' teknikully, dey'z wiffout gender!

**helium42**

Frazzled wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
jgehunter wrote:The actual percentage of women's raped is of 0.001 still 0.001 more than it should be but nowhere near the 1 in 6 you were talking about.

Those numbers are not accurate. Keep in mind that this particular event has a massive dark figure associated with it, and it is much higher than you think. However, it's not 1 in 6.

Frazzled wrote:No. Its only developed multiple meanings among slathering mouthbreathers who don't have a clue about common courtesy, manners, or pretty much anything (teenagers I am looking at you). Make such asinine statements at work and, well you won't be working.

Your condescension is of a flavour that usually only comes from people who believe that mother-knows-best by virtue of nothing other than that they have children. So you are either trolling very, very well or else you are blindingly ignorant of how language evolves.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. There is an option #3: I have manners. As an employer I can promise you that such language would have you terminated on the spot.
What do your wives, GFs, or sisters think of such language?

Frazzled has manners all right. Manners enough to make a blanket statement calling everybody who has used the term rape in the context of wiping out your opponent as slathering mouthbreathers who don't have a clue about common courtesy, manners, or pretty much anything.

As an employer, I can tell you that I know when, where, and to whom to speak to in a professional manner, and when, where, and to whom to speak to in a more relaxed and 'blue' manner. The world is not a black and white place Frazzled. Open your eyes.

**UsdiThunder**

TheHarleqwin wrote:
An' teknikully, dey'z wiffout gender!

"The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude. ~by Uthan the Perverse, a controversial Eldar philosopher"

Maybe we should strive to be more like this. There is no bias, everything is achieved through hard results. The best is at the top and the worst is at the squig farm. No Political Correctness, no BS Politics, no Hurt feelings; just hurt jaws, krumped 'eads, and true equality.

**Hellfury**

brettz123 wrote:
Feldenglas wrote:Yes, I meant rape. I censored it voluntarily because I've seen the word censored in WoW, wasn't sure what the standards were here, and decided to err on the side of caution.

So anyway, thanks for the input. It's been educational, and I'm guessing I would have loved this game when I was 15.

Hmmmmmm....... I was originally a little bit on your side but I think you just might be taking this a little too seriously (and by a little I mean a lot). You are telling me you are ok playing a game (40k in this case) that routinely touches on mass genocide, deamonic corruption, and essentially whose only female models are sexed up nuns in brasiers but somehow a single sentence on one page of a rulebook somehow offends you this much that you think you might have enjoyed the game when you were a pimply faced immature kid?

Interesting to sat the least.

Interesting is one way to put it.

Overtly insulting is another, likely more accurate, way of describing it.

**UsdiThunder**

Rape, "Slowed", N-Word are just a few in a long line of words used to abuse and demean people. I agree that there should be no place in a social setting where the casual use of those words should be allowed.

But when did saying "play like you have a pair " enter the same catagory?

**12thRonin**

helium42 wrote:
12thRonin wrote:
helium42 wrote:Nobody is trivializing rape. Language constantly evolves and rape is a term that has developed multiple meanings, like so many other words. Some people need to really work on having a thicker skin if the mere mention of a word in certain context can set them off.

Be in a room with a woman who's suffered that and some frat kid shouts "I just raped your ass!!!" in the middle of a game store. See how that works out. Yeah, she needs the thicker skin to deal with how she was violated.

Better yet, walk in to the hood and scream out a series of n-bombs and see how long you live. That word has developed multiple meanings after all too.

There are obviously times to use and not use language of this sort. I doubt you'll find a rape victim's counseling group meeting at your FLGS, so as long as you know your opponent, it should be a pretty safe place to do a little trash talking of that nature.

Do you know everyone in the room including the wife of the guy on the table beside you who was raped by her uncle when she was 4?

What about the random person in the store who came in looking for something who happened to have his mother raped and killed in a parking lot?

You go around shouting n*****s at your store when no-ones around?

**jgehunter**

Actually "slowed" is a perfectly acceptable way of calling certain people with certain special circumstances, as long as it is not used as an insult.

**the_trooper**

I never said shelter women. I won't bother you with my background as it is not pertinent to this conversation.

Any reasonable human being is a feminist.

Also, I get called out for beating around the bush on insults then I directly insult and people get upset. Now think about it.

**thakabalpuphorsefishguy**

Electro wrote:As if to throw fuel on the fire, I think some people need to look up the meaning of misogyny. That is some very heavy accusations over a simple phrase, a phrase we know what it means.

The implication is to play in an aggressive way, using the stereotype of men being aggressive. Perhaps you should consider that equally men could get upset over the idea that you are not a real man unless you are hyper aggressive.

If you want to get het up about something look in to how Women/Girls are treated going on to games stores.

Look at how some of the guys that stare in the stores are treated by girls at school, you might begin to understand where the "stand-off-and-gaze-at-what-will-never-speak-to-you" instinct comes from. Not a justification, but a reason mind you. You cannot expect a dog who is beaten every time it approaches a water bowl, to keep going to the water bowl. So why would you expect a young boy or girl, who is harassed, insulted, demeaned, and belittled every time they tried to approach a social relationship in grade school, to some how magically manifest socially acceptable and adequate behavior? THAT'S just silly to me! So what should you do? Point and laugh at the loser, virgin kid in the corner? Or befriend the kid and try and give him a friend with which to develop said lacking skills?

Think about THAT dakka, this is MUCH more important than the OP picking at the intent of a simple phrase that means "play aggressively," and whether or not she or he is overly sensitive or silly.

**azazel the cat**

TheHarleqwin wrote:I wholeheartedly agree with your statements regarding censorship, and though I dislike when people label themselves as supporters of any particular special interest group, I also agree with your statement regarding the sheltering of women. It's unfortunate that there's a large number of people who claim they're for equality, but still hold to divisive thoughts and old-fashioned notions that they misguidedly think of as progressive. As you've stated, the damage done there is worse than any casual use of a bleeding idiom like "play like you've got a pair".

50% of the population isn't a special interest group, and by your statements it sounds like you are a feminist as well. (feminism = equal rights, nothing more, nothing less)

UsdiThunder wrote:Rape, "Slowed", N-Word are just a few in a long line of words used to abuse and demean people. I agree that there should be no place in a social setting where the casual use of those words should be allowed.

But when did saying "play like you have a pair " enter the same catagory?

When did "slowed", "rape" and the "N-word" ever enter the same category?

jgehunter wrote:Actually "slowed" is a perfectly acceptable way of calling certain people with certain special circumstances, as long as it is not used as an insult.

Exactly. Thank you.

**WaaaaghLord**

Misogynistic or not, Sorscha will still kick your sorry ass.

**helium42**

UsdiThunder wrote:Rape, "Slowed", N-Word are just a few in a long line of words used to abuse and demean people. I agree that there should be no place in a social setting where the casual use of those words should be allowed.

But when did saying "play like you have a pair " enter the same catagory?

Wait, rape is a word used to demean people?

Do you know everyone in the room including the wife of the guy on the table beside you who was raped by her uncle when she was 4?

What about the random person in the store who came in looking for something who happened to have his mother raped and killed in a parking lot?

You go around shouting n*****s at your store when no-ones around?

I don't know everyone at the store all the time. I do know that if somebody were to take offense to something I said, I'd apologize and watch what I said after that. But you're implying that I now have to worry about offending somebody that knows a person who has been raped? Where does this word police stuff end?

I still fail to see how yelling the 'N' word is anywhere near like saying rape. One word unfairly disparages an entire race of people, the other is a verb describing a violent sexual act.

**Scipio Africanus**

TheHarleqwin wrote:... and though I dislike when people label themselves as supporters of any particular special interest group, ... It's unfortunate that there's a large number of people who claim they're for equality, but still hold to divisive thoughts and old-fashioned notions that they misguidedly think of as progressive. As you've stated, the damage done there is worse than any casual use of a bleeding idiom like "play like you've got a pair".

This is like African Americans who believe that the Mexican population is riding the success of the Black rights campaign.

The phrase honestly is not used to attack women and it has no intention of offending. Throwing in a few buzzwords like "Gender politics" (Imagine my saying it with quote fingers and a sarcastic tense on gender) doesn't make OP knowledgeable or even approachable on the subject.
Everyone needs to take a moment, sit down and stop thinking about everything like it's an insult. Not everything is an insult and not everything should be able to insult anyone.

My wallet is black. That doesn't make me a racist.

**Dok**

Feldenglas wrote:Hey Dok, thanks for the question, and I appreciate your tone of genuine interest.

I don't believe that PP's statement is against women, nor do I believe that they don't want women playing their games. What I suspect is that the statement was written with the best of intentions to create a specific attitude and culture around their game, but that they just didn't consider the possible gender implications. Lack of this kind of thought or consideration can be construed as casual misogyny (incidentally, here's a decent article if it helps: http://www.diamondbackonline.com/opinion/the-casual-stain-on-society-1.2709376 ))

It would be nice to know that Privateer was aware of it, and if they made a statement to that effect it would be fantastic. As a leading company in our hobby community, they have a tremendous amount of influence over the culture. Like I said, I do not believe that Privateer is anti-woman, nor do I think they should change their slogan.

I don't think terms like "man up" or "You're the man" are offensive necessarily, but look what they imply. They both portray manliness and masculinity as something positive and desirable, and both refer to assuming an attitude or expression of general maleness. "Play like you've got a pair", while also ascribing positive traits to males, does make that masculinity somewhat inaccessible by implication that it is inherently anatomical.

I don't think any of this is insurmountable. It just needs to be talked about.

That's where I have a problem with what you're saying. As far as I'm concerned manliness and masculinity are desirable traits for myself. Does that mean that PP is marketing specifically towards men with that slogan? Perhaps. Does that mean that you shouldn't use their product because they are marketing towards a certain section of the population? That's really up to you.

I do find your assertion that you would've liked the game when you were 15 pretty ridiculous though. You are (in my opinion) going far over the top in describing this statement as misogyny and then you turn around the next day and discriminate against the player base by basically calling them immature? So, I have to come to the conclusion that either you were trolling or that you have no ability to think outside your view point.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scipio Africanus wrote:
My wallet is black. That doesn't make me a racist.

My wallet has a bear on it. That makes me awesome!

**Eidolon**

People who get offended easily and read too far into everything can drag down any social groups they join. Probably a good idea to not get involved with PP games.

Also, this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wva3qypGPvA

**Frazzled**

helium42 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:
jgehunter wrote:The actual percentage of women's raped is of 0.001 still 0.001 more than it should be but nowhere near the 1 in 6 you were talking about.

Those numbers are not accurate. Keep in mind that this particular event has a massive dark figure associated with it, and it is much higher than you think. However, it's not 1 in 6.

Frazzled wrote:No. Its only developed multiple meanings among slathering mouthbreathers who don't have a clue about common courtesy, manners, or pretty much anything (teenagers I am looking at you). Make such asinine statements at work and, well you won't be working.

Your condescension is of a flavour that usually only comes from people who believe that mother-knows-best by virtue of nothing other than that they have children. So you are either trolling very, very well or else you are blindingly ignorant of how language evolves.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. There is an option #3: I have manners. As an employer I can promise you that such language would have you terminated on the spot.
What do your wives, GFs, or sisters think of such language?

Frazzled has manners all right. Manners enough to make a blanket statement calling everybody who has used the term rape in the context of wiping out your opponent as slathering mouthbreathers who don't have a clue about common courtesy, manners, or pretty much anything.

As an employer, I can tell you that I know when, where, and to whom to speak to in a professional manner, and when, where, and to whom to speak to in a more relaxed and 'blue' manner. The world is not a black and white place Frazzled. Open your eyes.

Mine are quite open. I've seen what happens when people make stupid statements in Real Life (TM).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

UsdiThunder wrote:Rape, "Slowed", N-Word are just a few in a long line of words used to abuse and demean people. I agree that there should be no place in a social setting where the casual use of those words should be allowed.

But when did saying "play like you have a pair " enter the same catagory?

No, not at all.

**azazel the cat**

Eidolon wrote:People who get offended easily and read too far into everything can drag down any social groups they join. Probably a good idea to not get involved with PP games.

Also, this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wva3qypGPvA

The phrase "balls to the wall", which is actually an old pilot's term, wherein the throttle stick would be pushed all the way to the wall of the cockpit. It's akin to "pedal to the metal", and has nothing to do with testicles.

EDIT: However, that man is hilarious, whether that was staged or not.

**TheSinheizer**

Frazzled wrote:
I reject your reality and substitute my own. There is an option #3: I have manners. As an employer I can promise you that such language would have you terminated on the spot.
What do your wives, GFs, or sisters think of such language?

There's a whole world of difference between conduct between an employer and a boss, and conduct between friends or partners.

And please don't assume that gender has anything to do with this, as though women are, by product of their gender, a literal fairer, delicate, easily-offended sex when it comes to matters like this. I know there are many women who are, but, I think as this thread shows, many men are too. However, I find the notion that I, as a woman, am liable to be offended by "such language" because I am a woman, pretty offensive in and of itself - at least more than if someone made a dirty joke in my presence. I am very much on the "anything goes" side when it comes to comedy and banter between friends.

**Skippy**

TheSinheizer wrote:

There's a whole world of difference between conduct between an employer and a boss, and conduct between friends or partners.

And please don't assume that gender has anything to do with this, as though women are, by product of their gender, a literal fairer, delicate, easily-offended sex when it comes to matters like this. I know there are many women who are, but, I think as this thread shows, many men are too. However, I find the notion that I, as a woman, am liable to be offended by "such language" because I am a woman, pretty offensive in and of itself - at least more than if someone made a dirty joke in my presence. I am very much on the "anything goes" side when it comes to comedy and banter between friends.

Nice to see someone talking sense!

My girlfriend looked at this thread and just shook her head sadly at how pointless the whole discussion was.

**Bla_Ze**

TheSinheizer wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I reject your reality and substitute my own. There is an option #3: I have manners. As an employer I can promise you that such language would have you terminated on the spot.
What do your wives, GFs, or sisters think of such language?

There's a whole world of difference between conduct between an employer and a boss, and conduct between friends or partners.

And please don't assume that gender has anything to do with this, as though women are, by product of their gender, a literal fairer, delicate, easily-offended sex when it comes to matters like this. I know there are many women who are, but, I think as this thread shows, many men are too. However, I find the notion that I, as a woman, am liable to be offended by "such language" because I am a woman, pretty offensive in and of itself - at least more than if someone made a dirty joke in my presence. I am very much on the "anything goes" side when it comes to comedy and banter between friends.

I understand that you find it offensive, just as most men find themselves offended by their supposed stereotypical traits.

In the end, the only thing we can blame is the gender roles present in our society. It wont likely change either. We're all caught in a cult called society, and it wont let us go easily.

**Quintinus**

the_trooper wrote:I never said shelter women. I won't bother you with my background as it is not pertinent to this conversation.

Any reasonable human being is a feminist.

Also, I get called out for beating around the bush on insults then I directly insult and people get upset. Now think about it.

I'm not a feminist in the modern sense, I just believe that women and men should have the same rights. Men and woman are mentally and physically different and as such, are not equal.
This whole "men and women are equal" is total crap, because we're not. That's why mostly men are firefighters and soldiers, as they are much stronger then women. And inb4 people tell me about one girl that was somehow stronger. Well cool beans cuzz, that's what we call an exception. Plus it's anecdotal.

Modern feminism is total bullcrap and is all about a free pat on the ass and getting free stuff.

The fact that men are getting offended by the term "play like you've got a pair" is a sure sign that American and British societies are slowly becoming emasculated. Stop trying to get offended in the hope that you'll attract women, because it doesn't work.

:edit: Btw, the figures about 1 in 6 women getting raped are total bull as well. I've heard of enough girls who get wasted, regret sleeping with said dude, and then call it "rape" so that they can justify themselves. So yeah, maybe 1 in 6 women regret getting wasted and sleeping with some dude.

**TheSinheizer**

Bla_Ze and Vladsimpaler -

I agree wholeheartedly with you both.

And as for the line: "Any reasonable human being is a feminist"... No, just... no.

Concentrating solely on one gender makes absolutely no reasonable sense whatsoever to me.

**Frazzled**

Skippy wrote:
TheSinheizer wrote:

There's a whole world of difference between conduct between an employer and a boss, and conduct between friends or partners.

And please don't assume that gender has anything to do with this, as though women are, by product of their gender, a literal fairer, delicate, easily-offended sex when it comes to matters like this. I know there are many women who are, but, I think as this thread shows, many men are too. However, I find the notion that I, as a woman, am liable to be offended by "such language" because I am a woman, pretty offensive in and of itself - at least more than if someone made a dirty joke in my presence. I am very much on the "anything goes" side when it comes to comedy and banter between friends.

Nice to see someone talking sense!

My girlfriend looked at this thread and just shook her head sadly at how pointless the whole discussion was.

Wait, whats worse, shaking your head about how sad this discussion is or thinking ANY discussion on the intranetz is not, in the end, sad?

**Howard A Treesong**

Vladsimpaler wrote:The fact that men are getting offended by the term "play like you've got a pair" is a sure sign that American and British societies are slowly becoming emasculated. Stop trying to get offended in the hope that you'll attract women, because it doesn't work.

Like myself, I imagine most people here are not actually 'offended' by these words, they just think it's stupid. Actually I don't care about the 'play like you've got a pair' thing but I do care about shouting about rape because I think it's very insensitive and far more likely to cause upset. I'm not actually offended myself, I just think it's stupid and inappropriate. It is possible to criticise someone's behaviour without being actually offended by it. But either way, thinking something is inappropriate to shout about doesn't not mean you are 'emasculated' or that it's necessarily being done to attract women. Most of us actually have a women and still think it's inappropriate to act like a douche.

Oddly enough I think might even be the other way around, it's the people who think it's okay to make mock threats of rape in relation to wargames that are more likely to be single being young and immature, many of those who are critical of it are older with partners and kids.

:edit: Btw, the figures about 1 in 6 women getting raped are total bull as well. I've heard of enough girls who get wasted, regret sleeping with said dude, and then call it "rape" so that they can justify themselves. So yeah, maybe 1 in 6 women regret getting wasted and sleeping with some dude.

Any argument you try to make is undone with this seemingly misogynistic nonsense. Oh no, that many women couldn't possibly be raped, they must be getting drunk and sleeping around, that *must* be the explanation. You don't have any proof of this claim, you just seek to dismiss facts that could prove awkward if you are to ignore any concerns that you might actually upset a rape victim by shouting about it, and trying to continue with the earlier "men are being offended just to show off to women" argument.

How many of the current rape statistics are really formed by women simply getting drunk and trying to excuse themselves do you suppose? I imagine the answer will be quite revealing.

**Bla_Ze**

Since the thread have now leveled into a more open discussion and less holy-feminist crusade mode i feel open to share some thoughts on Feminism.

And yes i know any man stupid enough venture into these outlawed subjects paint a kick-here target on his genitalia. I just cant help myself

I've come to notice any man questioning feminism or contradicting feminist arguments is irrevocably labeled misogynist, male chauvinist or something similar.

If i am to be labled misogynist for challenging feminists so be it, i refuse to be some kind of emasculated white knight that cannot contend women becuase they are a fragile glass ornament.

Feninism lost its real meaing long ago when its biased
supporters distanced themselves from equality and furthered the pursuit for womens rights only.

This became something of a rant, i had plenty more to say but i think its better to stop so i can get out of this big hole i just dug

**Quintinus**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:The fact that men are getting offended by the term "play like you've got a pair" is a sure sign that American and British societies are slowly becoming emasculated. Stop trying to get offended in the hope that you'll attract women, because it doesn't work.

Like myself, I imagine most people here are not actually 'offended' by these words, they just think it's stupid. Actually I don't care about the 'play like you've got a pair' thing but I do care about shouting about rape because I think it's very insensitive and far more likely to cause upset. I'm not actually offended myself, I just think it's stupid and inappropriate. It is possible to criticise someone's behaviour without being actually offended by it. But either way, thinking something is inappropriate to shout about doesn't not mean you are 'emasculated' or that it's necessarily being done to attract women. Most of us actually have a women and still think it's inappropriate to act like a douche.

Oddly enough I think might even be the other way around, it's the people who think it's okay to make mock threats of rape in relation to wargames that are more likely to be single being young and immature, many of those who are critical of it are older with partners and kids.

I understand that you find rape to be insensitive, but you're sort of going off on a tangent and as such I'm not going to respond to it. I'm talking about how grown men are getting offended by the term "play like you've got a pair". Immature? Yeah sure, if you say so. I don't think it is, it's just a term. Offensive? Not even in the slightest.

People (some of whom are in this very thread) who get offended by that term that PP has on Page 5 should stop posting and go live in a feminist hippy commune.

:edit: Btw, the figures about 1 in 6 women getting raped are total bull as well. I've heard of enough girls who get wasted, regret sleeping with said dude, and then call it "rape" so that they can justify themselves. So yeah, maybe 1 in 6 women regret getting wasted and sleeping with some dude.

Any argument you try to make is undone with this seemingly misogynistic nonsense. Oh no, that many women couldn't possibly be raped, they must be getting drunk and sleeping around, that *must* be the explanation. You don't have any proof of this claim, you just seek to dismiss facts that could prove awkward if you are to ignore any concerns that you might actually upset a rape victim by shouting about it, and trying to continue with the earlier "men are being offended just to show off to women" argument.

How many of the current rape statistics are really formed by women simply getting drunk and trying to excuse themselves do you suppose? I imagine the answer will be quite revealing.

I do have some problems with the actual statistic. I currently attend university in Austin, which has one of the largest college populations in the world. I've had several friends be falsely accused of rape, when all they did is have sex with a girl who was drunk. Of course, so was the guy. This isn't rape. They are both drunk and have beer goggles and all of that. Also, in almost every single relationship I've been in, at some point the girl says she was raped. Then I did some investigating with friends and it turned out that they had had sex with some dude and regretted it afterward. After talking with a female friend of mine, she said that actual rape is the most under-reported because girls who are actually raped are afraid that they'll just be considered liars.

I abhor that many women who are 25 and younger use it as a get-out-of-jail free card, when of course rape is a bad thing. If a woman is ACTUALLY raped, then yes something should be done about it. But here's the deal: in the U.S., you're innocent until proven guilty. For rape, it's always the opposite which is disgusting to me.
I'm a college male. So yes a lot of my facts are anecdotal but when you see the same patterns keep coming up...you know that there's an issue there. But to call me misogynistic because I'm questioning a statistic? Please spare me.

Tl;dr: Actual, legitimate rape is under-reported because women (and men) are afraid that they will be looked at as liars because of women (and men) who over-report rape that is really not rape.

:edit: Thought that this was interesting. http://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2216&context=llr
It's fairly long but the cliff notes version is that the statistics made by feminist groups are over-exaggerated.

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

**Frazzled**

Vladsimpaler wrote:The fact that men are getting offended by the term "play like you've got a pair" is a sure sign that American and British societies are slowly becoming emasculated. Stop trying to get offended in the hope that you'll attract women, because it doesn't work.
.

(looks at the stadium sized pile of firearms and ammo he has) yea....ok....

No its a sign we're not all working at the emotional level of derp derp 13 year old derp derp. How about you?

EDIT, oh wait eveidently you're an 18 year old frat boy longhorn wannabee. That explains so much. Jeez I have underwear older than you.

Gig 'Em!