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gunslingerpro wrote:I also notice that a majority of your posts are negative regarding the company and the recent directions it's taken. That is your decision, and I respect that. But I think your vitriol in the matter has somewhat blunted your argument.

The majority of my posts are not negative regarding Privateer Press. Almost all of them are negative, this is true, but I do not consider PP to be worth more than a fraction of my overall attention, which I'm sure the statstics would bear out, were I to collate my posting behavior to a table or graph form. I call things as I see them, and I see them... well, Yeats said it best: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

ever think that Yeats could be...wrong?

As if to throw fuel on the fire, I think some people need to look up the meaning of misogyny. That is some very heavy acusations over a symple phrase, a phrase we know what it means.

The implication is to play in an agressive way, using the steriotype of men being agressive. Perhaps you should consider that equaly men could get upset over the idea that you are not a real man unless you are hyper agressive.

If you want to get het up about something look in to how Women/Girls are treated going on to games stores.

Agamemnon2 wrote:
The majority of my posts are not negative regarding Privateer Press. Almost all of them are negative, this is true, but I do not consider PP to be worth more than a fraction of my overall attention, which I'm sure the statstics would bear out, were I to collate my posting behavior to a table or graph form. I call things as I see them, and I see them... well, Yeats said it best: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

My order of words is obviously confusing. Let me restate: In regards to Privateer Press, the majority of your posts are negative.

I was not implying that you summarily posted about Privateer Press, rather that your feelings on and lack of experience with the company make almost any post you make regarding it shallow. You've reiterated my point with what you posted above.

On topic, I don't really think it's something to get worked up about. But I cannot prevent someone from being offended. But I reiterate, read a good portion of the source material before forming opinions.

@gunslinger

at least its easier to ignore him now since we now know that he's not coming from a reasonable standpoint in all things PP related

I think you're reading far, far too much into it...

As a female I'm not offended in the slightest by it. Yes, I know, that doesn't make either of us correct, but then, what can be done about this? Would you really want to change it?

I don't look at the saying and think "Aww damn.. Well, I would grow a pair - if only it were possible! Perhaps I can't play this game!"

For some reason, I don't think it was meant to be taken entirely literally, but that's just me...

Feldenglas wrote:Honestly, this slogan is keeping me away from WM/H, due to the implications of casual misogyny. Does Privateer ever address this? As a company, have they ever made a statement welcoming female players, or clarifying the fact that they're aware of the gender politics behind making this statement their system's core ethic?

You are the reason that sex jokes are not allowed in the office anymore.

This statement is NOT misogynistic. Misogyny is the HATRED of women. This statement is not showing HATRED for woman. All it means is "play ballsy." - "Play hard".

Misogyny would be "I hate women because they are irrational" - the original Greek use, as an example.

I don't agree that his is misogyny - remember that misogyny means hatred of women, and I'm not seeing any hate here. If I was going to be perturbed by anything regarding this statement it would be the way it sounds like something an obnoxious opponent might say during a game because they thought you weren't playing "right."

Fun Fact! - Did you know that the word "misandry" is the male equivalent to the word "misogyny"? It means hatred of men.

It's scary how often the word "misogyny" gets thrown around like it's going out of fashion, yet my spell-checker doesn't even recognise "misandry" as a word in the dictionary...

gunslingerpro wrote:My order of words is obviously confusing. Let me restate: In regards to Privateer Press, the majority of your posts are negative.

This might be so. Unfortunately, since the availability of the products has gone down so dramatically in recent times (and because I'd rather support local game stores than Maelstrom) any further PP purchases on my part will have to wait until a local distributor is reestablished. This, sadly, is not likely to happen. Sadly, this also means I do not have a playable army list.

I stand by my observations, however.

Yes, I meant rape. I censored it voluntarily because I've seen the word censored in WoW, wasn't sure what the standards were here, and decided to err on the side of caution.

So anyway, thanks for the input. It's been educational, and I'm guessing I would have loved this game when I was 15.

Feldenglas wrote:I'm guessing I would have loved this game when I was 15.

You probably would love the game now.

It's a good game.

Some people, for some reason*, hate Privateer Press and demean their games. But since the game continues to grow and become more popular** in gaming communities, the focus has shifted to demeaning the playerbase.*** "Don't play that game, it's for d***s."****

You can either play the stupid "this game that I've never played sucks because X", or you can be a rational person and play the game yourself before judging it. If there's a PP community near you, they would love to give you a demo and play smaller games with you to help you get started.*****

* Chief among these reasons is because they're not Games Workshop
** Unlike certain sci-fi fantasy games
*** Which, given some of the 40k fanbase I've experienced, is hilariously ironic
**** casual misandry is actually more common than casual misogyny, if you accept the existence of either
***** surprisingly difficult in 40k communities, by the way

Feldenglas wrote:Honestly, this slogan is keeping me away from WM/H, due to the implications of casual misogyny. Does Privateer ever address this? As a company, have they ever made a statement welcoming female players, or clarifying the fact that they're aware of the gender politics behind making this statement their system's core ethic?

"play like you got a pair"
Then you the neckbeards who are gaming, and you laugh and laugh and laugh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bla_Ze wrote:

Feldenglas wrote:It's remarkable what a hard time some people have with what really doesn't need to be a threatening topic.

You are making this about gender, and that puts people off.

And come on, male privilege? Thats something butthurt feminnists with a inferiority complex contrived.

Please, if you want to call me a chauvinist pig please do it in plain writing.

Says the player with boobs as an avatar. Seriously? What are you, twelve?

'Play like you've got a pair' doesn't always have to mean 'Play like you've got a pair of testicles'.

Women have things in pairs as well. Like kidneys and ovaries and gazongas.

As someone thinking about starting Warmachine I thought this might be an informative thread. Instead it turned out to be an arguement over whether a tagline enocouraging people to play offensively was offensive to women and a general bashing of Warmachine. I am disappoint.

It just means "go after them and hit them with sticks" rather than sitting back and waiting for them to come and hit you with sticks. Saying that it is offensive to anyone is silly, frankly.

Castiel wrote:As someone thinking about starting Warmachine I thought this might be an informative thread. Instead it turned out to be an arguement over whether a tagline enocouraging people to play offensively was offensive to women and a general bashing of Warmachine. I am disappoint.

It just means "go after them and hit them with sticks" rather than sitting back and waiting for them to come and hit you with sticks. Saying that it is offensive to anyone is silly, frankly.

Less offensive, more tasteless and lame.

Frazzled wrote:

Castiel wrote:As someone thinking about starting Warmachine I thought this might be an informative thread. Instead it turned out to be an arguement over whether a tagline enocouraging people to play offensively was offensive to women and a general bashing of Warmachine. I am disappoint.

It just means "go after them and hit them with sticks" rather than sitting back and waiting for them to come and hit you with sticks. Saying that it is offensive to anyone is silly, frankly.

Less offensive, more tasteless and lame.

I agree that it is pretty lame, but I think throwing accusations of misogyny at it is an overreaction.

Feldenglas wrote:Yes, I meant rape. I censored it voluntarily because I've seen the word censored in WoW, wasn't sure what the standards were here, and decided to err on the side of caution.

So anyway, thanks for the input. It's been educational, and I'm guessing I would have loved this game when I was 15.

All the PP bashers have already come out of the woodwork, you can stop trolling now...

Feldenglas wrote:Yes, I meant rape. I censored it voluntarily because I've seen the word censored in WoW, wasn't sure what the standards were here, and decided to err on the side of caution.

So anyway, thanks for the input. It's been educational, and I'm guessing I would have loved this game when I was 15.

Oh man, too funny. If you were less PC and more in tune with the fact that this is a game of little toy monsters and robots kicking each other's asses in our imaginations then yes, you definitely would have enjoyed it more.

I'm only saying this because you're clearly demeaning the game that you haven't even played. Yes, its not the same as 40K. Yes, the PR tagline is more dramatic than what most companies would have gone with. But guess what, just from roving the forums here and at PP forums I get the impression there are more women playing WM/H than any GW games. Is it because of the tag line, or in spite of it? Most likely its neither reason and just the fact that most people who spend hundreds of dollars on miniatures can take a joke.

Also, the whole thread sounds like you made a broad statement in the OP, got shot up and called out for it, and instead of admitting you made a rash assumption that was baseless you got super logical and polite and tried to back-pedal. Its the internet man, admitting you were wrong or hasty really doesn't cost too much.

EDIT: Also, PP front page has regular "insider" articles from female employees. I can't recall the same from any GW thing ever but I could easily be wrong. Not going to check at work. I also intentionally avoided comparing the models that the two companies produce but from my own experiance PP's females have much more realistic proportions, are less scantly clad, and don't just fill traditional female roles like sorceress, assassin, priestess, evil witch, etc. This is a generalization of course and the general feeling of someone who's been playing GW games for a decade and doesn't even play PP games yet. I have painted their stuff and its exceptional quality. Now that Finecast looks to be entrenched...well, it doesn't need to be said again. Ya'll have seen the 70+ page thread

Castiel wrote:As someone thinking about starting Warmachine I thought this might be an informative thread. Instead it turned out to be an arguement over whether a tagline enocouraging people to play offensively was offensive to women and a general bashing of Warmachine. I am disappoint.

It just means "go after them and hit them with sticks" rather than sitting back and waiting for them to come and hit you with sticks. Saying that it is offensive to anyone is silly, frankly.

As someone that isn't thinking about starting warmachine because he still cant finish his puny 3000pt GW army and he only plays twice a month anyway, I entered the thread not knowing what it was on about, but I disagree with the OP, it seems to be just needless nit picking.

Now that I am here however....

I am glad to see that the people who play Warmachine are as ridiculously easy to offend and ridiculously aggressive with people they think are criticising PP on their own turf.

I'm what, 4500 posts in? I've never once entered a PP thread because I don't play it. Its nice to see that the haters don't extend me the same courtesy and endlessly troll the GW threads with their hatred and bile and virtual bullying.

How about you haters extend the embattled Warhammer players the same friggin courtesy and stay out of the GW threads if you don't play the games or buy the models or intend to start? You know, like I do?

I mean, fairs fair and all that chaps. One law for all yes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:

Feldenglas wrote:Yes, I meant rape. I censored it voluntarily because I've seen the word censored in WoW, wasn't sure what the standards were here, and decided to err on the side of caution.

So anyway, thanks for the input. It's been educational, and I'm guessing I would have loved this game when I was 15.

All the PP bashers have already come out of the woodwork, you can stop trolling now...

Fezman wrote:I don't agree that his is misogyny - remember that misogyny means hatred of women, and I'm not seeing any hate here.

The root words might directly translate to hatred of women, but everyone using the word knows that it means "bias against women" in our modern usage. Suggesting that misogyny means "hatred of women" is just being pedantic to win technicality points.

This message paid for by the Council to Improve Internet Arguments.

mattyrm what the feth are you talking about?

mattyrm wrote:

Castiel wrote:As someone thinking about starting Warmachine I thought this might be an informative thread. Instead it turned out to be an arguement over whether a tagline enocouraging people to play offensively was offensive to women and a general bashing of Warmachine. I am disappoint.

It just means "go after them and hit them with sticks" rather than sitting back and waiting for them to come and hit you with sticks. Saying that it is offensive to anyone is silly, frankly.

As someone that isn't thinking about starting warmachine because he still cant finish his puny 3000pt GW army and he only plays twice a month anyway, I entered the thread not knowing what it was on about, but I disagree with the OP, it seems to be just needless nit picking.

Now that I am here however....

I am glad to see that the people who play Warmachine are as ridiculously easy to offend and ridiculously aggressive with people they think are criticising PP on their own turf.

I'm what, 4500 posts in? I've never once entered a PP thread because I don't play it. Its nice to see that the haters don't extend me the same courtesy and endlessly troll the GW threads with their hatred and bile and virtual bullying.

How about you haters extend the embattled Warhammer players the same friggin courtesy and stay out of the GW threads if you don't play the games or buy the models or intend to start? You know, like I do?

I mean, fairs fair and all that chaps. One law for all yes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:

Feldenglas wrote:Yes, I meant rape. I censored it voluntarily because I've seen the word censored in WoW, wasn't sure what the standards were here, and decided to err on the side of caution.

So anyway, thanks for the input. It's been educational, and I'm guessing I would have loved this game when I was 15.

All the PP bashers have already come out of the woodwork, you can stop trolling now...

How is this a GW thread? Please explain. Also, Dakka Dakka is not a strictly GW forum and general discussion is just that. Also, what about players that play both. What was the point of the army points you mentioned? It wasn't very clear, but I hope you weren't indicating the size of your collection. That would just be irrelevant.

I really don't care for the use of 'rape' I've more recently come across in some gaming circles. If someone has badly lost a game then someone may say 'they were raped' or if someone is likely to be beaten 'you're going to be raped so bad'.

That's just horrible language, is it supposed to be funny? It must come from the mouths of people who have no experience with rape, but it's surprising how many people have been raped or know someone who has been. Seems a needless and stupid choice of language considering you never know who is a rape victim. I imagine more girls have been raped than men and are more likely to tell each other, so that's another way to alienate female gamers or their friends in particular.

mattyrm wrote:

Castiel wrote:As someone thinking about starting Warmachine I thought this might be an informative thread. Instead it turned out to be an arguement over whether a tagline enocouraging people to play offensively was offensive to women and a general bashing of Warmachine. I am disappoint.

It just means "go after them and hit them with sticks" rather than sitting back and waiting for them to come and hit you with sticks. Saying that it is offensive to anyone is silly, frankly.

As someone that isn't thinking about starting warmachine because he still cant finish his puny 3000pt GW army and he only plays twice a month anyway, I entered the thread not knowing what it was on about, but I disagree with the OP, it seems to be just needless nit picking.

Now that I am here however....

I am glad to see that the people who play Warmachine are as ridiculously easy to offend and ridiculously aggressive with people they think are criticising PP on their own turf.

I'm what, 4500 posts in? I've never once entered a PP thread because I don't play it. Its nice to see that the haters don't extend me the same courtesy and endlessly troll the GW threads with their hatred and bile and virtual bullying.

How about you haters extend the embattled Warhammer players the same friggin courtesy and stay out of the GW threads if you don't play the games or buy the models or intend to start? You know, like I do?

I mean, fairs fair and all that chaps. One law for all yes?

Was this aimed at me? Because if so I suggest you look at my sig which clearly shows that I play 40k as my main game. I don't play WM as yet, but I'm thinking of starting it, also clearly stated in my post. I'm not easy to offend, nor am I being aggressive to people critising the tagline, I'm just saying that, imo, the tagline is not offensive, just a bit lame and ott and that calling it misogynistic is an overreaction. I don't hate on stuff or troll, life's too short. You do in fact appear to be agreeing with me, so why did you quote me here? Or was this meant for someone else?

powerclaw wrote:

How is this a GW thread? Please explain. Also, Dakka Dakka is not a strictly GW forum and general discussion is just that. Also, what about players that play both. What was the point of the army points you mentioned? It wasn't very clear, but I hope you weren't indicating the size of your collection. That would just be irrelevant.

Its not a GW thread, its a PP thread, and the first page was pretty much people calling the OP a troll.

The point I was making is painfully bloody obvious, why must I wade through reams of endless gak when Im in a thread about GW games and products, If most GW players don't burst into threads about PP products and start saying how gak everything PP make is?

In GW threads, half of the people who post are there to slag off GW, bully people that defend GW, and mock anyone who happens to play their games while they smugly proclaim "I don't buy GW anyway! I haven't for years!"

Phantom Viper there seems to spend his entire week doing just that, but here I am in my first ever PP orientated thread and here he is giving it the "waah waah waaah" because some people (behaviour I dont agree with either obviously) are trolling PP players.

My point, is if you dont play PP, why the feth go into PP threads and annoy people? Leave them be and go play your game, talk to your PP friends, paint your PP models, knock yourself out.

And ergo, If you dont play GW, why on Gods green earth must you insist on rocking up in all the GW threads, and whinging until your hoarse in your virtual throat?

The vast majority of warhammer players extend PP players that very same courtesy, why cant they be equally polite?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Castiel wrote:
Was this aimed at me?

No, you have a Space Marine avatar gave me a clue for starters.

powerclaw wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

Castiel wrote:As someone thinking about starting Warmachine I thought this might be an informative thread. Instead it turned out to be an arguement over whether a tagline enocouraging people to play offensively was offensive to women and a general bashing of Warmachine. I am disappoint.

It just means "go after them and hit them with sticks" rather than sitting back and waiting for them to come and hit you with sticks. Saying that it is offensive to anyone is silly, frankly.

As someone that isn't thinking about starting warmachine because he still cant finish his puny 3000pt GW army and he only plays twice a month anyway, I entered the thread not knowing what it was on about, but I disagree with the OP, it seems to be just needless nit picking.

Now that I am here however....

I am glad to see that the people who play Warmachine are as ridiculously easy to offend and ridiculously aggressive with people they think are criticising PP on their own turf.

I'm what, 4500 posts in? I've never once entered a PP thread because I don't play it. Its nice to see that the haters don't extend me the same courtesy and endlessly troll the GW threads with their hatred and bile and virtual bullying.

How about you haters extend the embattled Warhammer players the same friggin courtesy and stay out of the GW threads if you don't play the games or buy the models or intend to start? You know, like I do?

I mean, fairs fair and all that chaps. One law for all yes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:

Feldenglas wrote:Yes, I meant rape. I censored it voluntarily because I've seen the word censored in WoW, wasn't sure what the standards were here, and decided to err on the side of caution.

So anyway, thanks for the input. It's been educational, and I'm guessing I would have loved this game when I was 15.

All the PP bashers have already come out of the woodwork, you can stop trolling now...

How is this a GW thread? Please explain. Also, Dakka Dakka is not a strictly GW forum and general discussion is just that. Also, what about players that play both. What was the point of the army points you mentioned? It wasn't very clear, but I hope you weren't indicating the size of your collection. That would just be irrelevant.

I will tell you this once and only once.

Do not poke the bear. It will end badly for everyone involved.

Also, way to completely dodge the question and go straight for the personal attacks. I, for one, somewhat agree with MattyRM. This is a mainly WH40k board. So if you come on and insult WH40k as a PP gamer, don't be offended if they come out of the woodwork to defend it.

Right, I was confused as to why you quoted me there.

mattyrm wrote:The vast majority of warhammer players extend PP players that very same courtesy, why cant they be equally polite?

Because they play like they have a bigger pair?

Let's all stay calm please people.

And also, please don't call each other names and the like, it really doesn't help you argue your point.