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My input on star engines....

I have a fast skimmer. He moves 12" during movement Phase, and flat out in shootng phase for an added 18" totaling 30" so far. The addition of star engines adds another 12" to the 18" turboboost having a grand total of a fast skimmer that turboboosts with star engines is 42" movement. Thats how I read.

The star engines adds 12" to your turboboost. So you have an effective turboboost of 18+12= 30". Move 12" turboboost 30". Total 42" move.


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Exergy wrote:

Razgriz22 wrote:@ smitty

Fortune allows you to re-roll "ANY failed saves" If FNP is a save, then it gets re rolled. From what I am seeing there is a discrepancy on if codex eldar psychic powers can be cast on dark eldar. In 6th edition is states battle brothers cast psychic powers on eachother as friendly units. I take that as meaning if they were your own units IE eldar units. Codex eldar states that you can cast fortune and guide on eldar units. So it seems mabye its a RAW vs RAI? IDK. But worst case scenario you cast it on the farseer and then have him join the dark eldar unit of choice and until next turn they are fortuned.

if not you can always put a farseer on a bike and put him in the unit. He casts fortune on himself and then the unit he joins gets the bonus.

Yes that is correct. But the farseer must be alone (not joined with) the dark eldar unit at the time of casting (which is at the start of the eldar turn). Then he is fortuned prior to the movement phase where he then moves within 2" of the dark eldar unit and then upon joining them he shares the power with them.

EDIT EDIT EDIT******Scratch all of that. In the USR section under Independant character, it states that an IC can NOT join a unit and share their benefit or penalties of effects.

Mispost

Basically from reading this discussion, all Eldars rubbish units are now good. And mechdar, the previous 'good' Eldar build is now not very good?

rodgers37 wrote:Basically from reading this discussion, all Eldars rubbish units are now good. And mechdar, the previous 'good' Eldar build is now not very good?

That is semi correct generalization. The way I look at it is that there will be more hybrid lists now. Mech with footdar drawing from the benefits of both. my 1500 and 2000 lists I just worked on and am about to post up on my blog have a more hybrid feel and less reliance on all mech or all foot. I hope to test them soon.

rodgers37 wrote:Basically from reading this discussion, all Eldars rubbish units are now good. And mechdar, the previous 'good' Eldar build is now not very good?

No, most of they're terrible units are still terrible, such as Guardians, Wraithguard, Banshees, Reapers, Shining Spears, Swooping Hawks, Pathfinders, and Phoenix Lords. Some previously mediocre units are now terrible, such as Dire Avengers.

But yes, Mechdar is bad. Mech anything is bad.

Some of the good units got even better though, such as Farseers, Autarchs, Warp Spiders, Falcons, and Guardian Jetbikes.

DarknessEternal wrote:

rodgers37 wrote:Basically from reading this discussion, all Eldars rubbish units are now good. And mechdar, the previous 'good' Eldar build is now not very good?

No, most of they're terrible units are still terrible, such as Guardians, Wraithguard, Banshees, Reapers, Shining Spears, Swooping Hawks, Pathfinders, and Phoenix Lords. Some previously mediocre units are now terrible, such as Dire Avengers.

But yes, Mechdar is bad. Mech anything is bad.

Some of the good units got even better though, such as Farseers, Autarchs, Warp Spiders, Falcons, and Guardian Jetbikes.

I have to slightly disagree with you on some of that.

Guardians are really bad now. Not that they got worse but rapid fire got better and kills them hard. Wraitguard I believe can be used very well. In a serpent to cover distance or footslogged. Wraithcannons have a great chance to glance or penn. AP2 is wonderful. They didnt get better but they are just more usable in 6th. T6 is strong in my opinion. 3+ re-rollable armour is also great(fortune). Im not saying there are a staple of every eldar army out there, but they are definitely usable. Banshees are now even harder t use. Overwatch also can dwindle a few of them on the way in :-(. Reapers can focus fire to try and help themselves out getting through cover saves. Most cover now is 5+ so itmakes them a little more usable as well. Also at 2000 pts you have 6 heavy slots to work with so its easier to fit them in. Shining spears seem very situational still but got a slight boost. They seem to have changed from terrible to only bad now. Hawks also seems still difficult to use well but they carry haywire grenades so there may be some use for them, but I still wont have any in my army. Phoenix lords are expensive and got hit with the ap3 power weapon nerf for the most part. So I will still not take them. Pathfinders seem good on paper now. I plan to test that in a game. Get them in ruins if you can or in your FOC fortification. Still weak to flamers but they can pick out individual units on hits of 6. Conveniently they also penetrate armour on a roll of a 6 as well. Boom Headshot? Falcons can no longer capture objectives with DAVU from what I have read. But they can shoot both guns and move 12". Warp spiders are still sweet and now lost their ap- hindrance. Autarchs are still good but their reserve roll ability is slightly overshadowed but the boost in reserves in the rulebook. But they are still cheap fusion gun toting bad ass's. I think the avatar is much more usable now. Wraithlord have an extra S10 attack due to hammer and anvil. Im going to try a bare bones wraitgurad with a sword in my next game to see how much attention he draws.

Overall I hope to see a larger grouop of lists for eldar. Not just mechdar. Hopefully some unique hybrid lists show up.

Hulksmash wrote:With Warp Spiders ability to move 2d6 in the assault phase in conjuction with being able to measure any distance at any time you've got the recipe for keeping them perfectly safe from CC or even Rapid Fire the majority of the time.

Basically move the unit within 11.9" of their target with your jump (naturally sometimes closer, sometimes farther), open fire, and then fall back 2d6. As long as you roll 6+ you'll be out of possible assault range and even if you're not then you snap fire and then withdraw with whatever is left to start all over again. And the sheer number of shots looks good for downing vehicles and even hurting flyers.

But remember that any large blast or fast moving unit will end their lives pretty quickly.


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Some of the good units got even better though, such as Farseers, Autarchs, Warp Spiders, Falcons, and Guardian Jetbikes.

Okay, you've forgotten Rangers/Pathfinders. Now build an army around these ''good'' units.

I thought banshees were great in 5th ed! Stick them in a WS with a doomseer and off they went, killing termies and MEQs with good old power weapons. Admittedly, now they can't really kill termies that much, or chapter masters with relic armour.

@wuestenfux

You don't play tag with fast units like TWC or Nob bikers. Any other fast units and they should do pretty well pulling down a significant number between their shooting and "overwatch". You might lose a few if it's a fast dedicated CC unit that gets in but you can then withdraw using the highest initiative in the unit (so the Exarch) and do it again.

As for large blasts there aren't many large AP3 blasts out there and if you're facing them then space out. They aren't you're only unit after all.

You don't play tag with fast units like TWC or Nob bikers. Any other fast units and they should do pretty well pulling down a significant number between their shooting and "overwatch". You might lose a few if it's a fast dedicated CC unit that gets in but you can then withdraw using the highest initiative in the unit (so the Exarch) and do it again.

So you suggest a tag team with some very fast cc unit. Not a bad idea.

I'm thinking of maybe using my Spiders just for board control. Keep them behind a piece of terrain that they could jump back behind, and no enemy light vehicle's gonna want to ge within 19~ inches of it. That should be a good way to help protect objectives.

I believe a group of spiders could be a solid addition to almost every eldar army. I dont think it could ever hurt you or be a waste of points to do so. They are one of our few units who deepstrike and our only good unit who can do so.

Something Stelek pointed out on his blog:

If you run a unit of warlocks with Karandas (or any phoenix lord I guess since they all get their armor saves vs. power weapons now, but Karandas is a good choice) then, because warlocks are all characters, you can put Karandas at the back and take 'look out sir' rolls to pass AP3+ hits back to him for an armor save. Add a fortune seer to the unit and just run em across the table.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Something Stelek pointed out on his blog:

If you run a unit of warlocks with Karandas (or any phoenix lord I guess since they all get their armor saves vs. power weapons now, but Karandas is a good choice) then, because warlocks are all characters, you can put Karandas at the back and take 'look out sir' rolls to pass AP3+ hits back to him for an armor save. Add a fortune seer to the unit and just run em across the table.

So you run this squad across the board and then what?

I guess you tarpit units?

Stelek has an idea though. If you use a fortuned IC, you can make the unit very tough to remove from shooting via one direction. I would go with an archon with a shadow field over Karandas and a 35/36 invlun save with a 2+ look out sir would be brutal.
While there are counters (namely moving so you shoot the rest of the squad and not Karandas/Archon first), its a good tactic vs slow moving armies that can't shift their line of attack.

Stelek has some good ideas. Hes got the personality of sandpaper, and if you can stomach the negativity seeping from his blog you can pick up a few nuggets.

How about allies? DE is definitely a choice to look at.

Then an HQ and one troop unit are mandatory. An Archon with shadowfield has already been discussed. A cheaper option would be a Haemi that hands its pain token to a Beastmaster unit. Thoughts.

DE/Eldar have great synergy iMHO.

2 squads of 20 DE warriors can make an excellent block for holding back field objectives, and providing a lot of poisoned shooting.
Basically you could recreate a foot'dar list with DE elements in place of the crappy eldar troop choices.

I know very little of DE, but I've been pulling out my harlies for 6th. What if you threw Lelith in with a squad of 8-10, all with kisses and a Shadowseer? Would that not be a decently effective CC squad, or am I recalling Lelith as more useful than she really is?

labmouse42 wrote:DE/Eldar have great synergy iMHO.

2 squads of 20 DE warriors can make an excellent block for holding back field objectives, and providing a lot of poisoned shooting.
Basically you could recreate a foot'dar list with DE elements in place of the crappy eldar troop choices.

Well, 20 DE Warriors with 2 splinter cannons would be an option. Two such squads become rather expensive.
However, I'd be willing to invest into a Beastmaster unit.

wuestenfux wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Something Stelek pointed out on his blog:

If you run a unit of warlocks with Karandas (or any phoenix lord I guess since they all get their armor saves vs. power weapons now, but Karandas is a good choice) then, because warlocks are all characters, you can put Karandas at the back and take 'look out sir' rolls to pass AP3+ hits back to him for an armor save. Add a fortune seer to the unit and just run em across the table.

So you run this squad across the board and then what?

Heh, good one.

I'd argue that Karandas is still a good unit-killer. 7 str8 power fist attacks on the charge is not a small thing.

Also, since everybody in the unit is a character, they all get precision strike. It doesn't work with destructor unfortunately, but it does work in HtH.

And you can deal with challenges in any way you want, either sending Karandas up if you want, or just sacrificing a warlock to occupy the opponent's uber-character every round.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Something Stelek pointed out on his blog:

If you run a unit of warlocks with Karandas (or any phoenix lord I guess since they all get their armor saves vs. power weapons now, but Karandas is a good choice) then, because warlocks are all characters, you can put Karandas at the back and take 'look out sir' rolls to pass AP3+ hits back to him for an armor save. Add a fortune seer to the unit and just run em across the table.

So you run this squad across the board and then what?

Heh, good one.

I'd argue that Karandas is still a good unit-killer. 7 str8 power fist attacks on the charge is not a small thing.

Also, since everybody in the unit is a character, they all get precision strike. It doesn't work with destructor unfortunately, but it does work in HtH.

And you can deal with challenges in any way you want, either sending Karandas up if you want, or just sacrificing a warlock to occupy the opponent's uber-character every round.

Well, Karandras has no inv. save and costs an apple and an egg. As said elsewhere, I'd ieventually nvest into an Archon. But mine often loses the shadowfield on the first roll to wound. Remember it will go down after 3.5 rolls to wound.

wuestenfux wrote:

Well, Karandras has no inv. save and costs an apple and an egg. As said elsewhere, I'd ieventually nvest into an Archon. But mine often loses the shadowfield on the first roll to wound. Remember it will go down after 3.5 rolls to wound.

Do phoenix lords even need invulnerable saves now? I think this is a change that makes them more worthwhile.

They get their armor saves against power weapons (except axes). They get 'look out sir' against hammers and fists, and even if they fail that, they have eternal warrior. Unless I'm misunderstanding a rule, it sounds to me like they have to fail a 2+ roll 3 times in order to die.

wuestenfux wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:DE/Eldar have great synergy iMHO.

2 squads of 20 DE warriors can make an excellent block for holding back field objectives, and providing a lot of poisoned shooting.
Basically you could recreate a foot'dar list with DE elements in place of the crappy eldar troop choices.

Well, 20 DE Warriors with 2 splinter cannons would be an option. Two such squads become rather expensive.
However, I'd be willing to invest into a Beastmaster unit.

200 points per squad. That's not to bad for throwing out 30 poisoned shots per squad at 24" when standing still, or 26 shots when moving. That's on a per-squad basis.

I expect that in 6th we will see more foot infantry, and therefore those poisoned shots will have a bit more use on the table.


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Flavius Infernus wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Well, Karandras has no inv. save and costs an apple and an egg. As said elsewhere, I'd ieventually nvest into an Archon. But mine often loses the shadowfield on the first roll to wound. Remember it will go down after 3.5 rolls to wound.

Do phoenix lords even need invulnerable saves now? I think this is a change that makes them more worthwhile.

They get their armor saves against power weapons (except axes). They get 'look out sir' against hammers and fists, and even if they fail that, they have eternal warrior. Unless I'm misunderstanding a rule, it sounds to me like they have to fail a 2+ roll 3 times in order to die.

And with fortune that 2+ becomes a 35/36 chance of succeeding, or 0.972222222%

Flavius Infernus wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Well, Karandras has no inv. save and costs an apple and an egg. As said elsewhere, I'd ieventually nvest into an Archon. But mine often loses the shadowfield on the first roll to wound. Remember it will go down after 3.5 rolls to wound.

Do phoenix lords even need invulnerable saves now? I think this is a change that makes them more worthwhile.

They get their armor saves against power weapons (except axes). They get 'look out sir' against hammers and fists, and even if they fail that, they have eternal warrior. Unless I'm misunderstanding a rule, it sounds to me like they have to fail a 2+ roll 3 times in order to die.

True.

In fact, Karandras can be more durable than a shadowfield, at least its more predictable.
However, he has to watch out for AP 1/2 (shooting) weapons which will still be around due to the new armor penetrating table and the bonus AP 1/2 weapons will get. So just in case he's targeted by a lascannon, he should better make use of 'look out sir' to transfer the wound to a Warlock.

Not sure if it's mentioned yet but vibro cannons seem to be a bit more useful now against tanks with the auto glance, though will depend largely on how much we still see tanks in 6th edition

ironicsilence wrote:Not sure if it's mentioned yet but vibro cannons seem to be a bit more useful now against tanks with the auto glance, though will depend largely on how much we still see tanks in 6th edition

Well, if you take 3 of them and can hide them completely, they are really useful unless there are no tanks in range.

I'm finally going to use Phoenix Lords!!! Haven't touched them since 2nd edition! And our Scorpion friend is an absolute beast!

Flavius Infernus wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Something Stelek pointed out on his blog:

If you run a unit of warlocks with Karandas (or any phoenix lord I guess since they all get their armor saves vs. power weapons now, but Karandas is a good choice) then, because warlocks are all characters, you can put Karandas at the back and take 'look out sir' rolls to pass AP3+ hits back to him for an armor save. Add a fortune seer to the unit and just run em across the table.

So you run this squad across the board and then what?

Heh, good one.

I'd argue that Karandas is still a good unit-killer. 7 str8 power fist attacks on the charge is not a small thing.

Also, since everybody in the unit is a character, they all get precision strike. It doesn't work with destructor unfortunately, but it does work in HtH.

And you can deal with challenges in any way you want, either sending Karandas up if you want, or just sacrificing a warlock to occupy the opponent's uber-character every round.

I think fuegan is more worthwile. He strikes at inititive with something that is AP2

I don't know. I find it kinda a wash. Both are AP2 (fist vs. MC rules) but Karandras is St8 vs Fuegan's St5. Fuegan strikes first and FnP but only has 4-5 attacks vs. 6-7. Fuegan does have a ranged melta shot but I expect to be running quite a bit. But Karandras does add stealth which makes him solid with a unit of non-seer council models.....

So basically a wash.

Though for me I see more of a use for Karandras as he seems to be a little more of a force multiplier than Fuegan....

Here's an interesting question.

Suppose you take a unit of vibrocannons and add a warlock and have the warlock man one of the guns (which is a good idea anyway to get the BS4 on that die roll) and suppose you fire the battery at some infantry units and the warlock's to-hit die comes up a 6.

Do you get to (precision strike) allocate the wounds from all d6 wounds scored on every unit hit by the vibrocannon battery?