Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Think back in this thread and count how many people have thought the new format and release routine is a good idea...?

Exactly.

If the hardcore fans have lost the trail of purchasing (generally.. many of those who post on forums) the casual purchaser is long gone, and working their way through the Game of Thrones box set or something..

 Just Dave wrote:
Well, he knows more than we do (and was referring to the hardback policy only, I think) and is far from willfully deluded. Although I'm still not reassured, myself.

I wonder how many fans have stopped buying BL products altogether... I know I have.

Does this person comment on the effects of killing off the enthusiastic fanbase HH discussions by staggering the releases?

Knows more than we do? Take a look at this thread. Complaints about business practices rather than any book discussion ... He has more than us of something but it ain't knowledge.

I think i am that one person that prefers the new format !!
Ive always been a sucker for hard backs, I cannot however agree with the decision they make in relation to the time schedule of the releases, as mentioned already, sounds like a straight up money grab.

Just finished reading the Riptide short story. I quite liked it.

haven't started that one (Patient Hunter) yet, but i'm enjoying Baneblade...

my purchases have actually picked up with all the e-Books, now that i don't have to wait for people to bring me stuff from The States...
as a guy who moves countries every few years, i'm loving that the heavy boxes of books have stopped multiplying...
i thought i would miss dead trees, but i was wrong...
plus, i can still read during our regular rainy season power outtages...

i still buy rulebooks in print, because i like the large format, and they feel more like collectors items than a novel does...
the price, and weight, savings on e-Books makes me happy, plus i get it on the day of release...

with Baneblade, i made my first digital pre-order and was alerted the minute it went up for download on i-Books...
feels wierd to pre-order a digital product, but it actually turned out to be rather convenient, as i didn't have to keep checking back to see if the book was available yet, constantly being disappointed since GW no longer seems to put the exact release date on their advanced order for books...

truely, strange business moves, but i still get good reads, so no complaints here...

cheers
jah

I made the switch to ebooks ages ago but I've still stopped buying any Black Library books because I refuse to pay double for a 'special' version ebook. I'm reading Game of Thrones and paying a third of what BL charge.

the 5 book bundle for A Game of Thrones is $39.99, or $8 a book, the same as a standard BL novel...
special editions are $11.99 from BL, with the standard version out 3 months later...
i quite like the internal art, and don't mind paying $4 extra to have art and not have to wait 3 months to read a book i've already (like Betrayer) been waiting for...
while GoT is cool, it's not 40k, and it sure as hell is not 30K, both of which interest me more than fantasy...

to each their own...

cheers
jah

 Just Dave wrote:
Someone within BL commented this in regards to the hardback issue, which may reassure some:

someone wrote:To be honest, they are implementing changes like that because it keeps the line healthy and successful and allows us to continue. A lot of people WANT hardback versions, and the trades are really useful in the GW stores (as opposed to bookstores). There'll still be the 'regular' editions too, but of course the releases of the formats have to be staggered. It's just a book company being very smart in a very difficult marketplace and strengthening itself (by supplying product to fit every niche and the demands of different types of fan) so it can continue to thrive and publish. I was myself slightly dismayed when I first heard what they were going to do, because it sounded so fething money-grabbing, but when the head of BL patiently explained the way the different sales curves worked in each market and product type, I realised it made great sense and actually trying to meet the needs of as many fans and readers as poss. Rather than, you know, just trying to screw everybody with their pants on for extra dosh.

Just my opinion, but maybe if you didn't see it as so 'wicked' you might feel less disenfranchised.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you a classic example of someone toeing the company line.

"trying to meet the needs of as many fans and readers as poss" - utter, utter gak! If they were trying to do that they would be publishing hardback and MMPB at the same time, with the awful (do you know anyone who actually prefers these?) trade issue paperback a few months later. Big hairy ones to the sales charts BL, you're dismaying and upsetting the loyal fan base that got you to where you are now.

 farmersboy wrote:
"trying to meet the needs of as many fans and readers as poss" - utter, utter gak! If they were trying to do that they would be publishing hardback and MMPB at the same time, with the awful (do you know anyone who actually prefers these?) trade issue paperback a few months later. Big hairy ones to the sales charts BL, you're dismaying and upsetting the loyal fan base that got you to where you are now.

People will keep buying it though, so they've no reason to change.

No book publisher releases the hardback edition at the same time as the paperback version.

That's like saying films should be released at the cinema and be out on DVD on the same day.

With regards to the trade paperback format, that does appear to the new industry norm. Most of the other publishers have/are moving to that format too.

 reds8n wrote:

That's like saying films should be released at the cinema and be out on DVD on the same day.

With regards to the trade paperback format, that does appear to the new industry norm. Most of the other publishers have/are moving to that format too.

Unfair comparison I think; the HH novels were only available in MMPB, that's how we've bought them and collected them, and now we've been rewarded with a 9 month wait if we wish to continue in that vein.

I hate and loath the trade pb - it's completely unecessary, too large and screws up collections on your bookcases. My Clive Cussler collection now looks decidedly uneven, although it's still not as bad as my almost-complete collection of W40K novels...

I agree it's annoying, I'm in much the same boat.

But to be fair the MMPB is being phased out/dropped/replaced across the entire book publishing industry so it's not (entirely) Bl doing this to spite us.

 jah-joshua wrote:
the 5 book bundle for A Game of Thrones is $39.99, or $8 a book, the same as a standard BL novel...
special editions are $11.99 from BL, with the standard version out 3 months later...
i quite like the internal art, and don't mind paying $4 extra to have art and not have to wait 3 months to read a book i've already (like Betrayer) been waiting for...
while GoT is cool, it's not 40k, and it sure as hell is not 30K, both of which interest me more than fantasy...

The standard versions are not released 3 months after the 'premium' version. This was the case for Angel Exterminatus, but Black Library said on their facebook page that this was a 'mistake'. Standard ebooks will be released 9 months after the 'premium' version, starting with Betrayer. The tacked on art might look pretty on your ipad, but for those of us reading on kindles it's totally pointless. The idea of paying to 'not wait' for a book might be something you 'don't mind', but I for one find it insulting. I've never paid more for an ebook than Black Library charge for theirs, and if they expect me to pay a near 100% mark up on top of that, they have to offer me more than black and white art I can barely make out and the privilege of not having to wait 9 months for them to stop arbitrarily holding back the regular release.

I'm a big fan of ADB. I regularly visit his blog. I've been looking forward to Betrayer for a long time. I'm probably exactly the sort of person Black Library think they can gouge because of my attachment to the series and the handful of truly talented writers they're lucky enough to have working for them. But I won't touch these 'enhanced ebooks', and if they continue on this drive towards GW inspired anti customer policies, I might have to swear off the series altogether. Who knows what idiocy they'll have dreamt up in 6 months time when Betrayer is finally due to be released as it should have been in the first place.

You still haven't read betrayer? Well that's on you boy-o. If you're really concerned about the $3 difference I'm sure there's some less scrupulous means in which you could obtain it.

Here's the deal: most people that would buy the MMPB have moved to digital as has beared out in research: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/03/business/media/mass-market-paperbacks-fading-from-shelves.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Quite frankly, the notion of "collecting" MMPB books is pretty silly. If you want your shelves to look nice and presentable, hardback or Trade paper are really the way to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And please: read that NYT article. It isn't just Black Library.

.. With regards to the Kindle format I've heard that there's issues with that and the Cain books. Something to do with the footnotes..?

 cincydooley wrote:
You still haven't read betrayer? Well that's on you boy-o. If you're really concerned about the $3 difference I'm sure there's some less scrupulous means in which you could obtain it.

Here's the deal: most people that would buy the MMPB have moved to digital as has beared out in research: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/03/business/media/mass-market-paperbacks-fading-from-shelves.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Quite frankly, the notion of "collecting" MMPB books is pretty silly. If you want your shelves to look nice and presentable, hardback or Trade paper are really the way to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And please: read that NYT article. It isn't just Black Library.

Published back in 2011 - and yet every time I go into a B&N, the old MMPB seems to still be in the majority!

I don't think I'd even HEARD of a Trade paperback until this BL thing.

Most of my BL things are being the audio books now. I think I said it earlier in the thread. "If I'm gonna pay 20 quid for a book, someone better be reading it to me."

 cincydooley wrote:
You still haven't read betrayer? Well that's on you boy-o. If you're really concerned about the $3 difference I'm sure there's some less scrupulous means in which you could obtain it.

The price difference is GBP5.50, which is a 85% mark up (or $8.42, which is a 180% mark up of the number you used). There are lots of things I'm willing to pay GBP5.50 for, but a completely worthless 'enhanced' format of a text file isn't one of them.

 reds8n wrote:
.. With regards to the Kindle format I've heard that there's issues with that and the Cain books. Something to do with the footnotes..?

All the Cain ebooks I've read work as intended, although the way that kindles handle footnotes is pretty annoying.

Can I trouble you to elaborate a wee bit with regards to the footnotes ?

 Alpharius wrote:
Published back in 2011 - and yet every time I go into a B&N, the old MMPB seems to still be in the majority!

Pay no attention to the evidence!

 reds8n wrote:
Can I trouble you to elaborate a wee bit with regards to the footnotes ?

You have to click on the footnote to be taken to a separate page with the footnote then hit back to return. On the old kindle without touch scrolling down to click was laborious. You could also see all the subsequent footnotes on the same page.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
People will keep buying it though, so they've no reason to change.

I'm the guy who put himself on the waiting list at Borders. I knew when every new HH and ADB book was going to be released and delivered to the store. I was able to actually open the fresh box of "Blood Reaver" on delivery day because the guys at Borders knew I had been waiting so enthusiastically for it.

I haven't purchased a HH novel in almost a year, with the exception of "Fear to Tread" and that was a MMPB I happened to see from the corner of my eye. I had no idea it was even out because I've stopped getting excited about the series. Still an awesome series, well written and I love the telling, but I don't have time or money for hardbacks. This isn't Dickens, I don't need a hardback collection.

 cincydooley wrote:

Quite frankly, the notion of "collecting" MMPB books is pretty silly. If you want your shelves to look nice and presentable, hardback or Trade paper are really the way to go.

Nonsense. If you want your shelves to look nice and presentable you want to keep on buying books in the same format that you've been buying for the last 30-odd years. Hardbacks are overpriced adn Trade pb's are an unecessary middle-man approach.

Some of us prefer holding a real book in our hands than reading ebooks...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:
Well, he knows more than we do (and was referring to the hardback policy only, I think) and is far from willfully deluded. Although I'm still not reassured, myself.

I wonder how many fans have stopped buying BL products altogether... I know I have.

Does this person comment on the effects of killing off the enthusiastic fanbase HH discussions by staggering the releases?

I picked up the Tzeentch Space Marine Battles book (Architect of Fate) a few weekends ago when I was visiting family and left my current book at home. But that's it.

Still waiting for Betrayer and Angel Exterminatus to come out on MMPB. Sigh...

I'll echo that sigh...

I think the high point for BL was the time of A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns. Maybe the idea afterward was, "look the market has heard of us now so let's leave the retailers and do everything direct as far as possible." And at the same time, they wanted more than the going rate for e-versions of MMPBs on new titles. On the consumer end, the factor driving higher ebook prices on release is the age established hardcover-then-paperback print system. Could BL have thought it was necessary to shoehorn that step in to justify higher prices for newly released ebooks?

I mean, I really cannot fathom anyone at BL saying, "oh gee there are people who want hardcovers and we are doing a poor job of being responsive to them" because in doing so they are clearly being unresponsive/offensive to the folks who formerly put them on the NYT Best Sellers List. Does anyone really think BL is also saying, "oh gee there are people who want limited edition novellas so lets not screw them over"? This transition, from a consumer POV, is an attempt to wring every pound and dollar out of the existing fans.

Just ask yourself, how many people do you know who started the HH series with Angel Exterminatus or Betrayer?

 Manchu wrote:

Just ask yourself, how many people do you know who started the HH series with Angel Exterminatus or Betrayer?

None. But I know several who finished on the book just preceeding the move to hardback.

It's been months since I last bought a BL book. My last purchase was the Imperial Infantryman's handbook sometime last year. Since then, nothing. I've come to dislike how things have been going as of late within BL towers.

Last I bought was Betrayer. Though I used to buy multiple books each month. Next I'll get is Vulkan Lives.