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 pretre wrote:
Good to know. Those suckers are hardy. I need to convince my buddy to take a Reb Teraton.

How does he even fill his points up if he's not bringing the Teraton? That guy is amazing, he comes with a frag grenade, he teleports and he messes up anything short of a G1 or Plague Teraton in melee. I've seen one checkerboard half a strike team in one turn. His huge downside, like all big toys, is that he gets suppressed just as easily as everything else. So save up those Steadfast and Courage cards.

For anyone that doesn't check Jake Thornton's (guy who wrote the DZ rules, if you didn't know) blog Quirkworthy, here are the most recent rule updates/musings:

100 point escalated games and campaigns
Blaze away vs constructs
Experimental AP/irresistible rule

Hope that helps if anyone was missing out. There's also a living faq where folks will ask questions and Jake will knock them out, and update the faq/errata as necessary.

While I'm on it, anyone have thoughts about the increased game size?

I'm certainly eager to try the 100 point game, mainly to get things like the Peacekeeper Captain in games without gutting my list. It may end up a little cramped on a 2x2 board, but I'd have to try it a few times to see if this is the case.

Regarding the Excessive Force rules (if AP is 2x armour and at least 3, counts as irresistable), I'm not sure. It does make the big'uns a little easier to bring down, but I can see things like +1AP being played on a Desolator to get through a S1 armour, but because it's AP4 then you're ignoring all armour and tough, which mean you only need 2 damage to kill it in one. That may be a little overdone, I think.

Yeah, that's my concern slightly as well,

On the other hand, a Grogan is still only 5+ shooting, whereas a a Stage 1 is 4+ save. So even then, you're still talking about needing to stack a lot of dice together, plus a headshot card. And also assume that the Stage 1 doesn't have a survive card.

I agree that it seems a little OtT strong, but it also seems like it would be tricky to elegantly meet halfway.

 GrimDork wrote:
I agree that it seems a little OtT strong, but it also seems like it would be tricky to elegantly meet halfway.

Tough eats 3 points of AP, Really Tough eats 5. Done.

Ml strips gen2 and hews strip gen1... easier than I thought. Should see what Jake thinks over on quirkworthy, might be something to look into.

Well, I had the best game ever tonight, down to the cinematic ending. Enforces outnumbered and pinned down with S2s barreling towards them... the sniper suddenly has an epiphany. The +2 shoot bonus is an ability of the model, not his rifle. He stands up and puts a pistol round right between a S2's eyes. This makes room for his buddy to make a run for the last objective. Victory!

Yup, it's a pretty handy trick. It's something worth keeping in mind for the Rebs Commander too, as it lets her actually take part in Infiltrate missions and not be a complete lead weight.

Haha, that sounds absolutely awesome as an ending. I've had something similar myself (although maybe not as sudden) with a S2 1 square from the edge, and a Rebs human in the next square. One aim+shoot later, along with 4 8s, the S2 disappears in a cloud of laser fire. And the next turn, he does it to another one! See, GW, this is how you do cinematic!

On a more serious note, the thing about marksman/sniper being on the model is always handy to remember, as it means that even when moving, an Enforcer sniper can still put out a pistol shot 6 cubes with 4 dice, and the Rebs commander with 3. Comes in handy in infiltrate missions, where you need to keep moving.

Good reason to give sniper ap ammo too

Game reminds me even more of xcom now

Is that a good or a bad thing, GD? I still haven't played yet.

The most recent xcom is really high on my list of favorite games. The turn sequence , overwatch, death in the open, and so on feel similar. I haven't played dz past the one proxy game, but it reminds me a lot of xcom.

You're pretty much on the money, though. It is very xcom-ey. The Plague stage 2s, incidentally give me the same reaction as crysalids, especially when they gain fast.

*shudder those things are terrifying when they first show up.

I'm just glad there's no equivalent to the sectoid commander

Yet...

You know, I think you're onto something there.

Who's up for a XCOM conversion?

Meep!

Hopefully the walkers aren't as brutal as sectopods... those are nasty.

Has anyone tried the second wave mercs/heroes? I like the third simplified version of Byarg or w/e his name is... deep strikes in with a bang and then normal instead of cool, but potentially confusing, jump pack rules.

Haven't tried them yet but they look at least decent for the most part (except the Rebs scout, who could easily cost half as much as he does) and add something new to gameplay, unlike most of the old ones.

Over n the mantic forums there is already a dead zone/xcom thread I believe. Not sure how far along it is.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Well, I had the best game ever tonight, down to the cinematic ending. Enforces outnumbered and pinned down with S2s barreling towards them... the sniper suddenly has an epiphany. The +2 shoot bonus is an ability of the model, not his rifle. He stands up and puts a pistol round right between a S2's eyes. This makes room for his buddy to make a run for the last objective. Victory!

Yeah, my eyes were opened to the awesomeness of Enforcer snipers this weekend. On a lark, in our campaign, I decided to leave the Captain at home (yeah, I'm trying to use enforcers with as few proxies as possible while I wait for wave two) and went for a dual-sniper list with no actual leaders (2-1 isn't too shabby all told). They ended up using the pistols quite a bit throughout the game, though the slow nature of my card economy made things a lot tougher (3-3 spoiled me damn it!).

It was going quite nicely until I got a bit cocky and didn't prioritize pinning the Teraton. It ended up lancing through my lines (I was doing quite well up to that point, a few kills and had most of the Rebs pinned down) taking out a trooper and the two snipers (ugh). I had more than enough saved up for rez attempts, of course. But when you roll a 6, 1 and a 1 for mishaps rolls... yeah. Only one sniper made it out alive and I was down 9 rep (should have cut my losses and not attempted to rez the trooper since I have enough waiting in my queue).

Unfortunately, the other sniper will probably be staying home the next few games until I can afford a Sergeant (which I probably should have started with, even if the Captain has given me excellent results thus far).

But the Sniper is worth its weight in gold if well supported. +2 to shoot makes it a whirlwind of death. Give it a good, high shooting position and its pistol will make things hurt. Now that mine is sporting a veteran die, I can't wait to pull it out again. A possible 7D attack before adding cards in. Should make for a nice play with a Move card (unless you luck in to a good position, the pray you drew Headshot and pick something good for death). Though, that said, I don't think I'll be grabbing much else for this sniper in terms of stat boosts and the like. Enforcer lists are fairly tight and experience bloat can really hurt them. Kind of sad that so far I have only either rolled results that killed my guys are smooth operations when rezzing things. A few choice injuries here and there would make my life easier when filling lists out.

Talk of all of these pistol shenanigans further reinforces how awesome the enforcer sniper is in my mind. I like to think that the thermal rifle enforcer has some of the same utility, no sniper rule of course, but the mobile aim-able ap3 (plus it burns!) seems like a good thing.

Hey, if I could, my army would be just one half snipers, one half burst lasers.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hey, if I could, my army would be just one half snipers, one half burst lasers.

Just need a srg in there so you can do a cheeky, command move, move card shoot with the sniper.

Many a stage 1 and 2 have been outflanked and nailed by this combo.

Okay, I see that I may have been doing the turn sequence wrong. So my 2-2 commander would move 4 models in a turn? "In a single Turn you may act with a maximum number of models equal to your Commander’s command total." I read that as round.

We were playing that I move a model, pass, you move a model, pass, until you hit your command limit and then the round was over.

This appears to be wrong (someone chirp in here to help me out). How I read it now:
I get the initiative. I have a 2-2 commander, I activate 4 dudes. I pass the initiative. You have a 3-2. You activate 5 dudes. You pass the initiative. I activate 4 more and run out of dudes. I pass the initiative. You activate the rest of your dudes, round ends.

Sound right?

 pretre wrote:
Okay, I see that I may have been doing the turn sequence wrong. So my 2-2 commander would move 4 models in a turn? "In a single Turn you may act with a maximum number of models equal to your Commander’s command total." I read that as round.

We were playing that I move a model, pass, you move a model, pass, until you hit your command limit and then the round was over.

This appears to be wrong (someone chirp in here to help me out). How I read it now:
I get the initiative. I have a 2-2 commander, I activate 4 dudes. I pass the initiative. You have a 3-2. You activate 5 dudes. You pass the initiative. I activate 4 more and run out of dudes. I pass the initiative. You activate the rest of your dudes, round ends.

Sound right?

Yep, that's is, which is why having a good command total is so significant, as you can really get the drop on your opponent by stacking multiple moves/shots in a row. The higher your command total, the more combos you can set up.

Thanks, Para. Now I feel silly. We've played probably 5-10 games my way. lol

Each game has been a litany of 'what are we doing wrong now'.

I wouldn't sweat it, to be honest. It took me about three weeks to work out that you had to play one card per round, not per turn, as well as the proper system for drawing cards and that you could capture objectives at any turn, not just the end of the game.

Yeah, there's always a lot of little bits to get into. I really love this game.

Sounds like I've been doing pretty well, comparatively

I hope the sorry excuse we have for a plowing service here clears the streets by Saturday so I can get a game of Code 13 in!