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So, with most of the KS orders delivered and the game now available for retail, I figured it was time for a thread for the gameplay aspect of Deadzone. We've heard a lot about the models, the scenery and the concept, but I've not seen all that much discussion of the game itself. Now people have got the models, I'm sure the eager and intrepid among you will have already dived head-first into the game, so I thought it was time for a thread like this.

So this is the place to come for any observations, experiences, thoughts and comments of the tabletop aspect of Deadzone. General gameplay, faction discussion and ideas for changes, anything is welcome here.

After getting a couple of games in, here are the things that stand out:

Open Ground= Dead- In the last game I played, half the Rebs were blown away in a couple of turns thanks to being in the open. Low armour units really do need to hug cover to survive. With 6 dice from aim+clear shot, you're going down if not in cover.

To blaze or not to blaze? This is something I'm wondering about a lot, if going for suppressing fire rather than outright damage is a better options. I think that in the early part of the game, being able to pin and suppressing enemy units can give you a massive advantage, giving you more time to move into position, but once you have a good spot (hopefully elevated and in cover) then shooting to kill is probably a better option. After you've got a position, taking the time to aim and fire can lead to a lot of quick kills. Any thoughts/preferences, anyone?

Similarly, I'm not sure whether it's better to go for supporting a blaze away action or to take a separate shot. If you're supporting a weapon with a higher ROF/AP, then I imagine it's better to support, but with standard weapons, I'm leaning towards taking 2 separate actions, as if the first one succeeds you can go for another target.

I'm looking forward to trying out mercs, seeing if they add anything to the teams, but at the moment, I almost feel the more models you can cram in, the better. Every loss seems to really hurt, especially for low-model count teams like enforcers, so I'm not sure ploughing points into mercs or expensive leaders/specialists is the way to go.

So, let the discussion commence...

Blaze away is the only way to slow down the melee baddies. If you were to walk down a street and people were shooting at you, you would probably die pretty quick. With cover, it will stop a good percentage of shots coming in. Don't get caught with your pants down in the open. I have only played 2 games as Enforcers against the plague and you don't want stage 2's or 3's getting into melee with you. It took me one game to realize this and the 2nd game he had the card that doesn't reduce the aggression when he needed it both times.

My tactic tends to be, shoot to kill if they are out of cover, or you can get a fully clear shot, blaze away otherwise. Getting a kill of opportunity is generally too valuable to not risk it most of the time, but shooting someone in cover even with a high AP weapon is not generally favorable, even with enforcers. So I'd rather blaze away, then move around to a clear shot.

The games I've played, Blaze Away has been immensely useful... However, I play Enforcers, and we tend to get 4 dice on the Blaze minimum. I've seen the normal troops for Plague and Orx tend to botch their Blazes against me, even when they were throwing massive amounts of dice at me.

I'm a little sore that it seems the big commander guy can't really be used in normal games. He's too expensive, there isn't access to squishy infantry in the Enforcers in order to use even half of his 8 orders. Besides, all of the commanders I've seen tend to stand back and yell at their troops to get angry. Seems to be a good use on the right models.

Board control is going to be an extremely important skill. I won a game against Marauders earlier almost entirely because I was able to flank him in his own deployment zone - What damage he did do was when I tried to move up to him, and wasn't nearly enough with a mission based around capturing points.

On that note, I'm assuming that if you control a point, you can take the marker - Similar in the manner that shows in the rulebook, you put the marker by your mission card to track points, and only one player can get the bonus / can get the bonus only once. Is that accurate? We weren't sure during the game.

Yeah, with a little more playtesting, I've noticed a few more things.

As mentioned above, Enforcers are lethal on the blaze. I managed to pin most of an Orx army for most of the game with some good rolls. The Burst laser is even better at this, the long range and higher number of dice really helps. What non-troopers are people going with for the enforcers? Yesterday I played a 70 pointer with 2 strikes, 2 assaults, Sniper, Burst Laser and Sarge and it worked pretty well.

The Rebs seem pretty good blazing as well, with a lot of very cheap (if squishy) ability to spam blazeaway. Humans and Yndij work well together,at 10 points for the pair, and the Human to sit back and cover the Agile Yndij.

The Soark is good for pinning/blasting guys, although he can't do any damage, and with Agile the Yndij can keep up pace towards objectives while still shooting. I'm preferring the Desolator to the Onslaught Cannon, though, as otherwise they are lacking a long-range point fire punch. The AP3 is very nice against Rippers and 2nd/1st Gens.

I agree the Peacekeeper Captain is too expensive, Every loss hurts in DZ, and you kind of need as many models on the board as possible. If you draw a capture mission and you're lacking guys, you're in trouble.

I've also noted that units with 'fast' or 'agile' are great, especially around terrain. Being able to climb/sprint then move or shoot is a great ability, as you can get into position much faster than otherwise without sacrificing firepower. Yndij and Plague 3As are great at this.

Anyone having any luck with Mercs? I tried Wrath yesterday and regret it, some bad rolls on the Own Agenda table meant he ended up doing quite a bit of damage to my own guys.

Haven't tried any mercs yet, but I'm excited to give Nastanza a shot. Do all mercs have Own Agenda, or only ones with it specified on the sheet?

My lists have been three basic Enforcers, the Sarge, a Burst Laser and a Sniper, and in that game the Enforcers were total champs, while the Sniper and BL got taken out pretty early on trying to get into position. I keep forgetting they have Dedicated Weapons. I managed to run one of my Enforcers down the field to suppress from the opposite corner, and that's the guy that killed the Goblin sniper and the Orx sarge as well.

I tried using the Captain along with a rocket guy, a derp Enforcer, an an Engineer with two drones to try and make up for the lack of bodies on the field. The Rocket guy got pinned all game, but was the only person to put any wounds on anything (managed to tag the big Plague general) while the Engineer dropped his drones mid-field and spend the rest of the game suppressing half the zombies on the field. the derp got eaten by a puppy, and the Captain got double-teamed by an Acid Teeth dog and a second-tier Infected. Was not a good game for the Enforcers.

I was earlier thinking that the Burst Laser wouldn't be useful as everyone has such good suppression ability, but I'll give it another shot. The sniper needs a good nest as well, but I figured that the derps would keep everyone's head down while the Sniper was picking off people for realsies.

I must admit I do like the Burst+sniper combo, seems to work quite well as you can pin the threats while point-firing at the weaker targets. I'm not sure how effective it is to try shooting at armour 2 targets, especially if they have Tough as well, but for those, pinning is probably a better option. I managed to keep a mauler pinning for most of the game yesterday using the Burst Laser, and while he didn't do much out, it meant the rest of my team were able to shoot at the Orx troopers without worrying about the Melee powerhouse they brought.

What I've noticed with the Enforcers is that they are pretty al-or-nothing. Either you'll entirely absorb all damage on a 3D8 survive 4+ test, as the enemy will have to get at least 3 more successes than you to even injure, but a series of bad rolls can lead to a lot of point going away fast. Similarly, AP2/3 weapons make a real mess of them, the Desolater and HEW Beamer on the rainmaker both claimed a couple.

I don't think all mercs have own agenda, but I'd advise against taking the ones that do. Wrath has amazing stats (mostly 3+) and some cool guns, but when he's working for the enemy 25% of the time, I'm not convinced it's worth the risk.

My local club has picked up DZ (one of the guys put way too much cash into the Kickstarter from what I hear) and I am looking forward to getting some games in with it in the new year.

I mainly like the look of the enforcers, are they difficult to play?

I don't mind the rebs, but there is a guy at the club already playing them so I don't want to double up really.

Not keen on the plague (strange as I play chaos marines so should be a fan of giant mutated monsters!) or the orx really.

Does anyone know if a forge father or veermyn faction are due to come out?

The Forge Fathers and an Elf faction is slated to come out and they were funded by the KS, so work is being done on them. They hinted Veer-Myn would be coming at a later date during the KS, but I don't think they have officially started working on anything yet.

 rohansoldier wrote:
My local club has picked up DZ (one of the guys put way too much cash into the Kickstarter from what I hear) and I am looking forward to getting some games in with it in the new year.

I mainly like the look of the enforcers, are they difficult to play?

The enforcers will probably have the lowest model count of any team, a 70 point team with fairly minimal upgrades is still around 6 models. Every one is very mobile with Jump Packs and the basic guns are probably the best in the game with regards to pinning the enemy forces. Enforcers rely on pinning the enemy until they can get into good position/can grab objectives, and are pretty good at keeping stuff pinned/suppressed with Heavy Rifles and Burst Lasers. The sniper and Missile launcher are good direct damage weapons,

They're also very tough, armour 2 at minimum (The same as Ripper suits, to give you an idea of relative durability), so you'll be keeping them around a while. They play like SM should in 40k, excelling at mobility, force control and localised strikes, each one very powerful, but always outnumbered and requiring good use of target priority and using the right tool for the job.

They are fairly forgiving thanks to the toughness, but watch out for high-AP weapons like the Desolator and enemy snipers. They're also going to lose in CC to specialists unless they are assault enforcers.

In the next wave, they're getting more special weapons, a medic and some defensive units which could end up varying the style quite a bit.

 squall018 wrote:
The Forge Fathers and an Elf faction is slated to come out and they were funded by the KS, so work is being done on them. They hinted Veer-Myn would be coming at a later date during the KS, but I don't think they have officially started working on anything yet.

I think we have confirmation of that as there is no current running or even hinted at Mantic Kickstarter for them!

 Alpharius wrote:

 squall018 wrote:
The Forge Fathers and an Elf faction is slated to come out and they were funded by the KS, so work is being done on them. They hinted Veer-Myn would be coming at a later date during the KS, but I don't think they have officially started working on anything yet.

I think we have confirmation of that as there is no current running or even hinted at Mantic Kickstarter for them!

I almost think they will be part of the Warpath KS. If they come out with models for the warpath army, all they would have to do is throw in some Deadzone cards and BAM!!! New Deadzone faction. We'll see if that happens, but I think it seems like a decent idea and I know I'm no smarter than Ronnie or any of those guys running the place.

My impression is that the Enforcers are one of the least forgiving forces? You haven't got the numbers, so any mistake in set-up means you get punished badly.

 Alpharius wrote:

 squall018 wrote:
The Forge Fathers and an Elf faction is slated to come out and they were funded by the KS, so work is being done on them. They hinted Veer-Myn would be coming at a later date during the KS, but I don't think they have officially started working on anything yet.

I think we have confirmation of that as there is no current running or even hinted at Mantic Kickstarter for them!

Believe they are going to be in a future expansion? I'd have thought it would have been more likely in a new 'season', similar to Dreadball, rather than being a new KS for them.

At this point, given how Mantic has been working, they will almost certainly be tied to some Kickstarter somewhere, at some time.

As squall018 noted, "Deadzone" expansions are now brain-dead simple for Mantic to foist upon every KS campaign now as 'stretch goals'!

 Pacific wrote:
My impression is that the Enforcers are one of the least forgiving forces? You haven't got the numbers, so any mistake in set-up means you get punished badly.

Fair point. However, what I have experienced is that, as say, Rebs, you leave a trooper in the open by accident, or get caught with your metaphorical pants down out of cover (by a distract card or command ability 'pause'), the trooper's as good as dead barring miracle rolls. With an enforcer, you can make these mistakes, and while it will still hurt, you're not losing models as fast. thanks to the combo of Armour 2 and a 4+ survive stat.

On an unrelated note, here's a combo that I saw over on the Mantic forums and decided to try: Running a Terraton in concert with a Soark or a couple of humans/yndij and survey drones, the theory being that you pin/suppress the enemy, for the bonus in the ensuing fight. It works pretty well if you need to take something out, and if you're desperate for the bonus and the others can't suppress them, the Terraton has the GL and flamer as well.

What also works well is using the Terraton's teleport ability to move across levels pretty easily. Being able to move up/down without needing walls allows you to stick to the ground (where there's more cover) and then teleport up for an attack.

 squall018 wrote:

I almost think they will be part of the Warpath KS. If they come out with models for the warpath army, all they would have to do is throw in some Deadzone cards and BAM!!! New Deadzone faction. We'll see if that happens, but I think it seems like a decent idea and I know I'm no smarter than Ronnie or any of those guys running the place.

That's what they did for Mars Attacks!, so it seems to be a given.

So, a little more playtesting has revealed that Recon N32 is great. 1 point less than a sniper, gets 2+ when he 'aims' (Holo sights), has scout, and a 3+ survive stat. You lost AP1 and 1 point of armour compared to the sniper, but have far more freedom in deploying (3 rows rather than one) and can, if need be, move and fire, If you stay still and aim, you get 5d8 anyway, just like the sniper. I imagine I'll be including him in most Enforcer lists now, he's a steal at 12 points.

N32 is awesome, I wish he was a standard Enforcer unit type. He doesn't have the punch or power level of Helfather/Nastanza/Oberan/Blaine/etc, but he's got a nice toolkit. Remember that he can't blaze away at all, and Agile means he can really clear some ground. He's only got armor 1, but a ridiculously good survive 3+

I think Recon N32, Dr. Simmonds, maybe the survivor, could all stand to be "normal" additions. I realize that there is no penalty to taking Recon or the Doc in a once-off game, but the rep cost in a campaign makes it prohibitively expensive to bring these models that really seem in line with other leaders and specialists. Freya almost makes this list, but her stranded ability might be game-changey enough to keep her out of the running.

 GrimDork wrote:
N32 is awesome, I wish he was a standard Enforcer unit type. He doesn't have the punch or power level of Helfather/Nastanza/Oberan/Blaine/etc, but he's got a nice toolkit. Remember that he can't blaze away at all, and Agile means he can really clear some ground. He's only got armor 1, but a ridiculously good survive 3+

I think Recon N32, Dr. Simmonds, maybe the survivor, could all stand to be "normal" additions. I realize that there is no penalty to taking Recon or the Doc in a once-off game, but the rep cost in a campaign makes it prohibitively expensive to bring these models that really seem in line with other leaders and specialists. Freya almost makes this list, but her stranded ability might be game-changey enough to keep her out of the running.

I was a little surprised that such a hefty penalty was given to bring in mercs for a campaign. I understand that Mantic would want a Rebs player to actually play Rebs, and not "Rebs, plus these folks they hired/found along the way." I get that. However, it seems -2 REP per merc purchased per game would add up fast over the course of a campaign, and they only be viable toward the end where most players have already built up their force with the upgrades they like.

Thought it was -3 rep actually. It's possible they may be worth it, or will get houseruled.

Yeah, it's -3, but for a one-off game (I haven't got enough interest in my area to start a campaign yet, demoing it to the group later)to try to get some interest) Mercs are mostly awesome. I don't think the lack of blaze away on N-32 really hurts at all, to be honest, as if there's one thing Enforcers always have a lot of, it's that.

I agree with GD that, even if not N-32 himself, a recon enforcer unit as a trooper would add a lot to the dynamic of the army. Something like this would be fun to have:
Sh4+ F5+ Sv4+ A1 Cmd 1-1

Abilities: Agile
Weapons: Pistol, rifle (single-shot R6)

for around 9-11 points.

I'll be opening a thread soon for some DZ house rules I'm working on, so if anyone has any ideas then look out for that. I'm particularly interested in adding Corporation troopers as a faction, to represent the initial fightback against a Contagion before the Enforcers show up. I've got a few ideas that should help separate them from human rebs and make then significantly different to play.

Don't need aim as an ability anyone can do that. Sounds pretty reasonable (especially the reduction to survive 4+). I'm not positive giving him 5 fight is in line with the way enforcers operate, but its hardly game breaking either. Probably helps him fill a gap.

I think I'll use Recon Unit anyway, simply because the model is so awesome. Probably my favourite out of the entire kickstarter.

He can be a reasonable proxy for a sergeant model, I think.

Scratching my head a bit at the moment and wondering why there aren't any standard Steel Warriors in the WIP FF list? You've either got the option of the mega-expensive forge guard, or Brokkr.

Also kind of amusing considering the concept - the plague outbreak is so deadly that the Corporation will knock a whole planet off the map for it, and close the system down. But, the Forge Fathers just head there with their shorts on as though their heading out for a day on the beech?!

 Pacific wrote:


Also kind of amusing considering the concept - the plague outbreak is so deadly that the Corporation will knock a whole planet off the map for it, and close the system down. But, the Forge Fathers just head there with their shorts on as though their heading out for a day on the beech?!

The Forge Fathers are the honey badgers of the Deadzone. They just don't give a feth.

I needed that laugh thanks cap'n.

Recon does look awesome.

I think the forge guard Brokkr dynamic is to be looked at as miners/salvage operators and their elite guards. Steel warriors are military grunts. We don't see any orx grunts or corporation marines running around, just the more elite/specialist forces.

I realize 3rd gens and human rebs are kind of grunt-ish but most factions are pulling from their elite/irregular troops for deadzone activity.

Orx are immune to the plague... are forge fathers?

 GrimDork wrote:
Don't need aim as an ability anyone can do that. Sounds pretty reasonable (especially the reduction to survive 4+). I'm not positive giving him 5 fight is in line with the way enforcers operate, but its hardly game breaking either. Probably helps him fill a gap.

Yeah, you're right. I think I meant giving him holo-sights, but on reflection that might be a bit much. Not sure, I might have a bit of a playtest with and without.

The F5 was an attempt to give the Enforcers another CC option apart from the assaults. This guy is kind of a middle ground between Strikes and Assaults, not as good at Blazing or tanking that strikes, and not as good in CC as assaults, but can do both roles. To survive in a Deadzone for weeks before the main force arrives, you need to be quite good in both areas.

Re: lack of armour on some units, that's something I'm playing with for my house rules Corporation grunts. They aren't wearing the fully enclosed armour, so I'm thinking of putting in a rule where, if killed by a 2nd or 1st Gen, they are replaced by a weak infected model (stats slightly worse than a 3A) under control of the plague player, and balancing this obvious advantage by giving them Corp player a VP for every infected model killed. Again, I'm not sure on balanace but this is just a preliminary idea.

You can buy them holo sights in campaigns, I don't think any non-mercenary units get sights so probably best to leave them off. Keeps him a lower cost option as well. Agile+rifle will get you an extra dice from elevation usually anyway, if you pick your targets with that in mind.

I can buy the 5+ fight, I mean look at the model, he obviously favors that knife!

Quick question: It says that if you move into an opponent's cube for any reason you start a fight. Does this mean that my fast models can double sprint into opponent's squares (moving 4) to start a fight?

 pretre wrote:
Quick question: It says that if you move into an opponent's cube for any reason you start a fight. Does this mean that my fast models can double sprint into opponent's squares (moving 4) to start a fight?

You can only take an action once per turn, so no double-sprint. However, you can move+sprint or vice versa for 3 cubes, which is still alarmingly nasty, especially for shooty models with weak CC units. I'm learning quickly that fast units are nasty, nasty opponents. Plague as an army are very speedy, with fast on the dogs and S3s, and potentially gaining it on the S2s if they get injured.