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Aha. That is really helpful. I am still learning. I feel bad for beating up on my kid with my double sprint dogs then.

And god, Really Tough is good. My S1 just ate people up.

Yeah, the S1 is nasty if it hits you, and can take a hell of a lot of punishment. I've actually found it more beneficial to ignore it and kill the other guys rather than fishing for 8s with your big guns.

In my last game I spent 3 rounds firing a Desolator at the S1, before shifting targets and dropping 2 3As in 2 turns. I only eventually bagged the S1 as the last model standing, and even then it took a Sniper, Desolator and 2 cards, as well as a Clear Shot bonus and 3 exploding 8s to bring it down. It can be just as effective as a fire magnet to protect the squishier guys if you can make your opponent focus on it. Ignore the dogs and stage 2s at your peril, both hurt a lot.

Plague are very good with the infiltrate mission as well. The dogs and 3s are great just dashing across the board, and the 3s can even sprint and fire to keep the enemy pinned and still clear the board in 4 activations.

There's the one mutation that does it too! And don't forget about the move card for a 4 cube mad dash, get's scary!

 CptJake wrote:

 Pacific wrote:


Also kind of amusing considering the concept - the plague outbreak is so deadly that the Corporation will knock a whole planet off the map for it, and close the system down. But, the Forge Fathers just head there with their shorts on as though their heading out for a day on the beech?!

The Forge Fathers are the honey badgers of the Deadzone. They just don't give a feth.

Haha yeah that must be it.

Really, can't understand why the FF list has taken that direction. I can understand it from a miniature perspective (maybe they don't want to update the Steel Warrior kit yet, or the Brokkr/Forge Guard are too much of a departure in terms of style/scale from the FF we have so far) but a small concession for those us who have FF miniatures would have been nice..

Will wait to see what the FF set looks like (I mean.. I might be proven wrong, and a bunch of Troll Slayers with guns might turn out better conceptually than I'm imagining so far), but otherwise will probably end up using the Enforcer list as 'counts as' and using Forge Father miniatures.

I've played a surprisingly large number of deadzone games now, maybe 10, which is loads for me in such a short time

Ive played the 4 sides now and had some observations.

1. Playing the Rebs is really stressful, I think this is mostly due to their missions, I usually run 8 models in my rebs, which makes infiltrate and scour missions really difficult. If I field more models, I don't have the power for the kill missions.

I usually have: Commander, Grogan with desolator, Teraton, Sorak/yindij, a zee and 3 humans.

2. Enforcers feel the opposite, sure I only get 6 guys most of the time but I feel comfortable with that many.
I usually run a sergeant, assault enforcer, sniper/missile, 2 normal enforcers then either a 3rd normal one or a burst laser.

3. Dogs and mawbeasts are terrifying. Sure, easy to shoot, but you need to see them first.

4. Don't underestimate pistols. I nearly lost a rebs game I had because I didn't want to move my commander in an infiltrate mission. 3 squares is actually a decent distance mid game when mobile.. Plus losing 1 dice for long range isn't horrible if you are higher up.

5. There's no downside I can see for blazing away at long range. Nothing to stop you doing it either that I could see.

6. Marauders are awesome. 4+ save at 5 points is a steal. Blaze away at your opponent then release the hounds!

7. Rebs seem to get loads of steadfast, enforcers get loads of courage cards. These are near essential, don't chuck them away.

8. Be wary of the sneaky move card being played on Gen 1s, teratons and the like.

9. Frag grenades are bad at killing, unless throwing them off a roof, but great for pinning.

10. I wanted a 10 but ran out of obvious things to say. It may help newbies to the game though.

That's a nice summary and some helpful observations, Compel. The only thing I'm not sure I agree with is the idea that the rebs are particularly difficult to play. If you want a faster team, then consider, adding in a couple more Yndij, with Agile they've got a potential 3 cubes move, or 2 and a blazeaway, so I tend to use them up ahead of the main squad to cover the slower models. I've also found that with the Terraton, you can get a lot of milage out of the 'teleport' move, as being able to potentially go 2 cubes up in the same move as 2 across can get you into some very neat positions. Not much in the game can attack from below if you're more than 1 square back from the edge or if there is no wall, so launching a surprise Terraton attack at a model on a walkway or similar can be great.

I agree that any card that affects aggression should be kept, it's very helpful to prevent your high-power models being pinned or suppressed. Playing one on a Grogan so he could shoot with the Desolator practically saved me my last game.

Blazing at long range can be great in the early stages, as preventing the enemy moving in the first few rounds can give you more time to get into position or get a headstart on objectives.

Aren't teratons size 3 so can't go onto walkways? Best you could do is fire the flamer or launcher at someone up there. Walkways are my favourite places to hide from big gribblies

Excellent gameplay discussion, I envy you for having played already. Looking forward to seeing ow well it's balanced - and how well/rapidly Quirkworthy pushes out balance tweaks to adjust any glaring imbalances.

I eagerly await more proper gameplay observations. I got 3 teams assembled but my would-be opponent has been sick all through the holidays, so no game :(

 Compel wrote:
Aren't teratons size 3 so can't go onto walkways? Best you could do is fire the flamer or launcher at someone up there. Walkways are my favourite places to hide from big gribblies

Fair point. For some of my games I've used whole tiles suspended between 2 buildings, so that's what I was referring to. You're right, though, that walkways proper are a good place to hide.

Until someone manages to get a grenade to land on the walkway and blows you off of it

 GrimDork wrote:
Until someone manages to get a grenade to land on the walkway and blows you off of it

Well, aren't YOU just a cheery fellow.

How can you NOT be when there are grenades involved

So I finally found someone to try the game with me. We played Orx vs Rebs and here are my early observations:

1) A sniper's +2 dice will murder anything much more reliably than expensive heavy weapons; both my Hulk and the Guntrack were completely ineffective while one goblin sniper racked up 3 kills including one-shotting a Teraton

2) When in doubt, Blaze Away; suppression is amazing and takes a model out for a turn and a half at least

3) Save your frag/blast for blowing enemies off roofs and objectives, it's hilarious

4) Play your mission! My dice we terrible and my list was terrible (made before I had even read the rules) but I scored a convincing victory because I went for the objectives I needed while my opponent got caught up in trying to kill stuff for no real reason

5) Pay attention to your battle cards, they make all the difference; 20 cards might not seem like a lot but games are short, so don't be afraid to burn through them



Apart from that I must say it's been a long time since I've been so impressed with a rules system. Probably not since Monsterpocalypse, and that was released in 2008.

I find it quite difficult playing to my mission a lot of the time and, surprisingly, its not because I go all 'kill stuff' its more because my brain is dumb.

Like I think I mentioned before, in my last game I immediately dismissed my rebs commander moving, therefore almost screwing up an infiltrate mission because my brain went 'nope, must shoot rifle' where it was emitrely feasible throughout the game to move my Grogan and boss along walkways to infiltrate off the board, especially after the 2nd Gen was killed.

Also, I need to condition my brain into working out that victory declaration is immediate, particularly for the capture/control games, I've screwed up in a few enforcer games now by waiting too long instead of sprinting onto the objective and theoretically winning in the first activation of a round, before enemy guys can move into the capture area

Some more interesting observations, guys, and II agree with Blackfang that the ruleset is hugely impressive. It took only a few turns before a stalwart 40ker was converted to DeadZone. The fact you can get a whole team and more for less than one box of 40k figs also helps. I just need one more player in and I can get a campaign up and running.

I learned the real value of clear shots in a game the other day, with a Reb human bagging 2 2nd Gens, both 1 move from the board edge in an infiltrate mission, with point-blank clear shots. The first was lucky, the second was nothing short of a miracle (8 potential damage from 6 dice, 3 failed survivals). So yeah, if you have a clear shot, take it. With such small teams, even killing a couple of models can swing the game one way or another.

Not really an observation, but how have people been finding the Terraton? I was initially put off by the high cost, but since I've started using it, it's racked up quite the kill count, including 4 kills in one game the other day. I've found that teleport+move card makes it deceptvely fast at getting into CC, and that the AP2 can more than handle anything up to a 1st Gen.

Also, a query: for 'control' missions, can you call victory as soon as you have the objective? If so, I've been playing it wrong, as I assumed you had to wait until the game timed out and be holding it then.

I'd be lost without my Rebs teraton, she's the only thing that I find can really make my opponent second guess themselves and ponder a bit before barrelling into close combat.

But yeah, you can declare victory (legitimately) as the conditions on the card add up to 10. In other words, be very wary of enforcers loitering around objectives, half their missions are based on them.

I still haven't played anything beyond tinkering with the alpha/beta rules myself and a single game with the rulebook and beta plague/enforcer cards, so Its great to hear you guys are having fun with it!

Right now the thing I'm most interested in discovering is how much of a game changer multi-mat system is going to be. Bump the size of the game up to that of Infinity and simlar, but field between 5-10 models a mat. It's going to fall at an interesting middle ground between skirmish and wargames at this point. Something like 20-40 guys on a side, moving individually in team-sized bursts. Things like the guntrack, heavy mortar, and crazy snipers like Nastanza will come (even more) into their own. Keeping dense terrain will still be of paramount importance. I'm just curious if such a size of game will play fast enough.

If I get to use 20 enforcers or upwards of double that in other models, I'm not entirely sure I'll even need warpath to scratch the bigger battles itch, the only thing we'll be missing is proper tanks.

Is anyone else as excited at the prospects and potential of multimat? Or are you guys more on the track that it'll be too bloated and or slow at that size?

It might be a bit slow, but I reckon it will be worth it. Range will actually matter, positioning will be more important, and the whole gameplay will be completely different.

I'll be interested to see if they scale up things like VP requirements, deck sizes and stuff like that, otherwise it may end up a bit self-limiting.

I plan on 6 mats, about $400 of terrain and 6 player games of insanity!!!

Yeah, that's the part we need Jake for or we could probably be experimenting with it now. Well, some industrious folk could be experimenting now but I usually wait for the official response to land before I work on ideas

Once I have everything (and I will), I'll get to work on it.

Ive done a couple of 'joined' games with 2 mats and 4 forces in teamsand it didn't really do much. Most of the time you were just focussed on the guy opposite you. I think there was 1 cross table sniper shot and that was that.

You definitely would need more cards, or some other way to track time in proper multimat games though.

All that stuff will be in the Compendium, right?

Played a half dozen games with buddies, we have 1 Enforcer, 1 Reb, 1 Plague, and 2 Marauders in our group.

The Marauder players (being one of them) are keen to try out a list:

1x Rainmaker
1x Ripper Suit
3x Chainsaw Dogs (no Bomb)
3x Goblin Snipers

Based on what we've seen, this sounds hilarious because it's bringing tons of what everyone is hating us for right now. Overall, Marauders seem very flexible and made for a more tactical experience.

Enforcer player has had a lot of success, and he loves that he can hunker down and defend. Lack of AP in the army is sometimes an issue.

Rebs are doing well, but find that they need to be more careful than the other factions to bring a well-rounded force.

Finally, our Plague guy has found his sweet spot after a few missteps. The Stage 3 Grenade Launcher and Mortar Crew selections are crazy good, and their CC crew (being Plague Worms and Plague Tetraton) are absolute monsters. He has single-handedly started a discussion on if Frag is "balanced" as it currently stands. I want to play a few more games before I really make a determination, but it does feel stupid easy to pin someone down.

We're looking forward to Wave 2 and starting a campaign!

You have too many specialists. Only the melee ripper is a leader now, the rainmaker is a specialist. That does look like the annoying parts though.. would be interesting to see how those elements work together without the others.

I'd say switch the ripper for a cheap leader, add in a regular grunt with the points saved and wreck face. I assume gobbo snipers are good?

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I'd say switch the ripper for a cheap leader, add in a regular grunt with the points saved and wreck face. I assume gobbo snipers are good?

Whoops, ha, you're right. I'll have to change it up. Definitely have to cram in Ork-poleon or a Grunt in there to set up Blaze Aways.

Gobbo Snipers are straight-up mother slumpers, and are cheap as dirt.

Yeah, snipers of any kind are worth their weight in gold, negating most basic armour and getting bonus dice just for shooting. Enforcer Sniper is the best, but the gobbos are cheap and very hard to get a clear shot at because they are so easy to hide, being 1/3 of the size of the rest of the models.

Goblin sniper is a bit worse overall, and way easier to kill, but they also cost just over half the points too. In order to get an enforcer sniper you have to spend at least 23 points (considering most basic enforcer troop to unlock) and you can get 2 goblin snipers for 24 along with a pair of very capable commandos.

The enforcer sniper makes a decent leader backup/alternative too.

Oh and don't forget Nastanza, she packs a ridiculously long ranged weapon and a stealth cloak in addition to having the best shooting stat of snipers.