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I think people fear what they don't know. I don't know what kind of armament the Knight uses aside from a brief description on games workshops site, I and from what others have briefly mentioned. I think the opinion may change if more people see them and see them being torn apart.

I think for low point games its kinda messed up, but I doubt some one will field just knights. I think many players plan to buy one for an ally team. I don't see a lot of people just fielding three or more of these things, I think the army would be dull and get boring easily.

 xttz wrote:

Massaen wrote:A brood of 3 fex should cost equal or less than a knight and kill it more often than not - and have a model left at the end.

Breng77 wrote:Assuming the Knight is not in terrain, and the explosion does not hit the 3rd carnifex.

Also there is a not unreasonable chance that it will kill 2 before they swing...At which poin they don't kill it.

The Knight will nearly always strike first (I4 vs I2) and hit on 3+ (WS4 vs WS3). This typically means landing 2-3 destroyer hits, each of which will inflict a minimum of 2 wounds on 2+. With luck it's possible for all 3 Fexes to go down without striking a blow, but 1 or 2 is fairly likely.
Any survivors get to strike back needing 4+ to hit, so they'd better be melee fit for the extra attack. With only AP2, a Fex would have to be pretty lucky to get any Explode results, but has a good chance to remove 1 or 2 HP.

Of course this is all reliant on various assumptions, such as:

The Knight is using his 12" movement to dictate range over the 6" moving Fexes, ensuring he gets the charge and therefore the extra benefits from HoW

No HoW hits were factored in here from either side

The Carnifex brood makes it into combat undamaged, which is pretty unlikely when the Paladin battle cannon is more than capable of killing a whole Fex in a turn.

The only real chance a Fex brood has of killing a Knight is to get the charge off themselves, and pile on 3D3 S9 HoW hits first. That needs to be followed up by 1, preferably 2 of them striking normally. Unfortunately there's not much chance of that against any competent Knight player.

A better melee option would be a dedicated Flyrant with Crushing Claws and Scything Talons. This strikes before the Knight with a much better WS, and can keep pace thanks to the 12" jump move. Unfortunately it's still pretty unlikely to kill an undamaged Knight before getting hit back, and can't weather more than a single Destroyer hit including the explosion. All of this means a 200pt+ synapse unit (and likely your Warlord) is still a suicide option.

You forgot about the Stomp which has a good chance of finishing off the 3rd one. Up to 3 stomps each with a 1/6 chance of flat removing the a fex from play. Even more amusing is the fact that a single Stomp can potential remove two.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 randomtoaster wrote:
So in no uncertain terms, i've been told by many players in my local club, they'll refuse to play me if I bring my Knight titan. Played this Tau guy, play him most weeks and generally he'll win (general camping Tau tactics, smart missiles, marker lights, riptides etc.) this time I tore him apart with my Storm Raven/IK combo, now hes saying he won't play me again. Now everytime I get tabled by him (it's not hard when i'm running a 12 model list...) I don't moan, I just take it in my stride, I don't care it's all fun. However, since he played something he didn't know how to deal with right away, he's gonna refuse any games from now on.
This other guy too, who brings stuff from stronghold assault without even asking his opponent (i know its part of 40k now, but its common courtesy) says he won't play me either. Yet, he is one of the most try hard WAAC players, he's the most irritant person to play against, however he's a challenge.

I can understand the worry of coming up against a super heavy with D strength weapons, but really it's not invincible in the slightest. You won't know how to take it down, unless you've come across one. Has anyone else had this problem so far?

Throw it right back at them. "I'll not play against stronghold assault anymore."

I generally don't play that either for the similar reasons, AV15 and D weapons (Void shield rules weirdness doesn't help either).

Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
This thing is a disaster for Orks.

At least it's coming over to fight us in close combat, unlike those eldar and tau cheapskates

If I had a Knight and was fighting against Orks, I wouldn't be advancing. Let the double battlecannon shots do the damage.

xttz wrote:

Massaen wrote:A brood of 3 fex should cost equal or less than a knight and kill it more often than not - and have a model left at the end.

Breng77 wrote:Assuming the Knight is not in terrain, and the explosion does not hit the 3rd carnifex.

Also there is a not unreasonable chance that it will kill 2 before they swing...At which poin they don't kill it.

The Knight will nearly always strike first (I4 vs I2) and hit on 3+ (WS4 vs WS3). This typically means landing 2-3 destroyer hits, each of which will inflict a minimum of 2 wounds on 2+. With luck it's possible for all 3 Fexes to go down without striking a blow, but 1 or 2 is fairly likely.
Any survivors get to strike back needing 4+ to hit, so they'd better be melee fit for the extra attack. With only AP2, a Fex would have to be pretty lucky to get any Explode results, but has a good chance to remove 1 or 2 HP.

Of course this is all reliant on various assumptions, such as:

The Knight is using his 12" movement to dictate range over the 6" moving Fexes, ensuring he gets the charge and therefore the extra benefits from HoW

No HoW hits were factored in here from either side

The Carnifex brood makes it into combat undamaged, which is pretty unlikely when the Paladin battle cannon is more than capable of killing a whole Fex in a turn.

The only real chance a Fex brood has of killing a Knight is to get the charge off themselves, and pile on 3D3 S9 HoW hits first. That needs to be followed up by 1, preferably 2 of them striking normally. Unfortunately there's not much chance of that against any competent Knight player.

You need to use Gargoyles. That's the only way I can see fexes beating a Knight. Charge it with a unit of Gargoyles to pin it in place long enough for the fexes to get there and charge it. But that little combo then costs more than the Knight, will still probably end up dead, and still has a good chance of the Knight player just running away anyway (if I saw 3 fexes opposite my Knight, I'd immediately move 12" in the opposite direction so they can't reach me until turn 4 or 5, by which time they're probably dead).

A better melee option would be a dedicated Flyrant with Crushing Claws and Scything Talons. This strikes before the Knight with a much better WS, and can keep pace thanks to the 12" jump move. Unfortunately it's still pretty unlikely to kill an undamaged Knight before getting hit back, and can't weather more than a single Destroyer hit including the explosion. All of this means a 200pt+ synapse unit (and likely your Warlord) is still a suicide option.

Unless I missed something, the Hive Tyrant can't take crushing claws. Crushing Claws aren't on the Wargear list, so they can only be taken by models who explicitly say they can take it (Tyrant Guard, Tervigon, Haruspex or Carnifex).

Fragile wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Alright I was wrong about the 90 degree arc thing, with that in mind Tyranids have no answer to a Knight short of sacrificing well over its points in models to kill it.

So yeah, let's dig at the meat of the problem. A TAC list now needs so many different things that it is impossible to actually build a TAC list anymore, you need so many answers to so many different possible threats. Some armies can get away with it because they are generalist, some armies just have to accept that there are certain things they can't answer. This is terrible game design and is why most everyone I know doesn't even attempt to play 40k competitively anymore.

Hive Guard with Electroshock will kill it in 2-3 rounds of shooting pretty easily.
Zoanthrope Brood of 3 can single round it, but more likely kill it in 2 rounds.

Other less friendly options are MCs Smashing it. Your sacrificing your MC, but pointwise should come out ahead.

Yes an 18" and a 24" range weapons on walking platforms that can be easily taken out by battle cannons are the best bet to kill a super heavy with 12" moves and 6 HP are the best option...

Not considering the fact that the Knight is just a SMALL part of the enemy army.

So yes, I can take 3 x 3 groups of Zoanthropes but that is NOT a TAC list, that is me expecting to come up against a Knight or some other super heavy but again, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't super heavies immune to Lance in the first place?

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but aren't super heavies immune to Lance in the first place?

You are wrong. Anything that permanently lowers AV (such as Entropic Strike) do nothing, however, if something treats the AV as a lower value without actually changing it (such as Lance) still owrk.

Fragile wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Alright I was wrong about the 90 degree arc thing, with that in mind Tyranids have no answer to a Knight short of sacrificing well over its points in models to kill it.

So yeah, let's dig at the meat of the problem. A TAC list now needs so many different things that it is impossible to actually build a TAC list anymore, you need so many answers to so many different possible threats. Some armies can get away with it because they are generalist, some armies just have to accept that there are certain things they can't answer. This is terrible game design and is why most everyone I know doesn't even attempt to play 40k competitively anymore.

Hive Guard with Electroshock will kill it in 2-3 rounds of shooting pretty easily.
Zoanthrope Brood of 3 can single round it, but more likely kill it in 2 rounds.

Other less friendly options are MCs Smashing it. Your sacrificing your MC, but pointwise should come out ahead.

The Hive Guard (which have a range of 18") can be wiped out in a single round of double battle cannon shooting (72" range), or at least severely diminished. Also the thing has it's 4+ inv save still, so your 2-3 rounds is being a bit hopeful, more like 3-4 rounds. Even if all their shots hit, if half of them are bounced by the save, you're looking at 12 shots to kill it, from 3 Hive Guard that's 4 turns of shooting, and that's neglecting that some shots might scatter too far from the Knight to hit it.

The Zoans would have to be extremely lucky to kill it in a single round. They still need to hit it, so 3+ to hit, get past a 4+ inv save, then a roll of 2 will glance and a 3+ will penetrate, then to actually wipe it out in a single round you'll need to roll a 5+ on the vehicle damage table with at least 2 hits and then roll reasonable well for the number of hull points you take off.

Far more likely it's 3+ turns of shooting. But again, the Zoans are 18" range, and the double battle cannons probably won't wipe out the unit in a single turn, but will likely kill 1 or 2 of them (Zoans have a 3+ inv, but being T4 they instantly die if they fail and each battle cannon shot will rack up 2 or 3 hits on the unit).

If you took a Hive Crone, a unit of Zoans, a unit of Hive Guard AND a Flyrant.... each one might be able to inflict a couple of HP and bring it down. But it's also likely that the Hive Guard and Zoans are blown away before they're in range, the Crone gets a single VS against it and then is dead before it gets to swing around for a 2nd VS and the Flyrant gets swatted.

That's also around 700pts of models to bring down a 375pt model and it's far from a sure thing.

The only tricksy thing you might be able to do is bring the Crone and Flyrant with Heavy Venom Cannon around to it's rear at the same time the Zoans and Guard reach the front so that you can fire it's missiles at the rear while the HG/Zoans shoot the front and it only gets to save against the front. Though also remember the Crone's missiles still need to hit (at Bs3) and it can only fire 2 at a time.

We're not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE to bring down a Knight, but to bring one down you need to spend a lot of points on models that probably wouldn't be in a standard TAC nid army and you need to tailor much of your strategy around killing it (where as the Knight can happily dance around making life hard for you while the rest of it's army... or God forbid a 2nd Knight... crushes you soundly).

Honestly, if my nids came up against a Knight, I'd be feeding it gaunts and hoping it doesn't do too much damage with it's battlecannons when it's not eating gaunts. Best case scenario, you lose maybe 150pts worth of gaunts + whatever it can kill with 4-6 battlecannon shots.

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

I cannont wait for GW to release their new version of a BRB with Escalation and Stronghold Assault rolled into it making them legal to play compeltely without question. I just wish i was there to see you cry more.

 Xerics wrote:
I cannont wait for GW to release their new version of a BRB with Escalation and Stronghold Assault rolled into it making them legal to play compeltely without question. I just wish i was there to see you cry more.

No offense, but such a thing would be stupid in the game's current form. Not so much because of the Knights, but because of crazy things like the Revenant Titan. I'd much sooner fight 2 or 3 Knights than a Revenant.

If GW includes Stronghold/Escalation without also including a clause that they can't be taken in smaller games it will just be annoying. What little balance 40k had will be gone, lol. Escalation is horribly unbalanced. D weapons are horribly unbalanced (the Knight gets away with it because it's only a melee D weapon).

If GW wants to have big things wandering around, IMO they need to alter the rules to make them more balanced. Instead of D weapons, weapons should have a separate column for armour penetration (that is not simply the strength + D6) and a separate column for how many HP of damage they inflict. So a Lascannon might be 2 HP, a melta might be D3, what is currently a D weapon might be 2D3.

It would help if GW brought back dice other than D6 (so D4, D10, etc) as that allows more gradation rather than "This thing does NOTHING... that thing does EVERYTHING" like we currently have with D weapons.

 Happyjew wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but aren't super heavies immune to Lance in the first place?

You are wrong. Anything that permanently lowers AV (such as Entropic Strike) do nothing, however, if something treats the AV as a lower value without actually changing it (such as Lance) still owrk.

Okay so Zoanthropes are decent enough I guess but...again, battle cannons will make short work of Zoanthropes walking across the board to try and get into range to MAYBE do some damage to the Knight.


So let's break this down, Tyranids based on what we have discussed in this topic have little to no hope of actually beating a Knight, let alone a Knight backed by the rest of what ever army your opponent brings. You can try and ignore it but it seems to be tailor made for killing Tyranids. Two battlecannons for killing swarms and medium bugs, 12" move and Str D melee to kill large bugs, stubbers are enough to force grounds checks on FMC....

Do we even have to discuss Orks? I mean really...do we?

Point is, people who say, "Why do people complain about these things? They are super easy to take down with my meltas/lascannons/lances/etc." Need to understand that there are armies in this game without access to those things in a reasonable amount. TAC is a thing of the past, the only way 40k can work anymore is if you and your opponent have an understanding of what you are going to be using in the coming game.

 Xerics wrote:

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

I cannont wait for GW to release their new version of a BRB with Escalation and Stronghold Assault rolled into it making them legal to play compeltely without question. I just wish i was there to see you cry more.

Nah, not much crying, just picker in my games. I have enough uphill fights with my nid's. I don't need more "challenge". So will keep on just playing folks that don't bring Super heavies or D Weapons.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but aren't super heavies immune to Lance in the first place?

You are wrong. Anything that permanently lowers AV (such as Entropic Strike) do nothing, however, if something treats the AV as a lower value without actually changing it (such as Lance) still owrk.

Okay so Zoanthropes are decent enough I guess but...again, battle cannons will make short work of Zoanthropes walking across the board to try and get into range to MAYBE do some damage to the Knight.


So let's break this down, Tyranids based on what we have discussed in this topic have little to no hope of actually beating a Knight, let alone a Knight backed by the rest of what ever army your opponent brings. You can try and ignore it but it seems to be tailor made for killing Tyranids. Two battlecannons for killing swarms and medium bugs, 12" move and Str D melee to kill large bugs, stubbers are enough to force grounds checks on FMC....

Do we even have to discuss Orks? I mean really...do we?

Point is, people who say, "Why do people complain about these things? They are super easy to take down with my meltas/lascannons/lances/etc." Need to understand that there are armies in this game without access to those things in a reasonable amount. TAC is a thing of the past, the only way 40k can work anymore is if you and your opponent have an understanding of what you are going to be using in the coming game.

Sounds like nids in 5th vs Mech 100%

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but aren't super heavies immune to Lance in the first place?

You are wrong. Anything that permanently lowers AV (such as Entropic Strike) do nothing, however, if something treats the AV as a lower value without actually changing it (such as Lance) still owrk.

Okay so Zoanthropes are decent enough I guess but...again, battle cannons will make short work of Zoanthropes walking across the board to try and get into range to MAYBE do some damage to the Knight.


So let's break this down, Tyranids based on what we have discussed in this topic have little to no hope of actually beating a Knight, let alone a Knight backed by the rest of what ever army your opponent brings. You can try and ignore it but it seems to be tailor made for killing Tyranids. Two battlecannons for killing swarms and medium bugs, 12" move and Str D melee to kill large bugs, stubbers are enough to force grounds checks on FMC....

Do we even have to discuss Orks? I mean really...do we?

Point is, people who say, "Why do people complain about these things? They are super easy to take down with my meltas/lascannons/lances/etc." Need to understand that there are armies in this game without access to those things in a reasonable amount. TAC is a thing of the past, the only way 40k can work anymore is if you and your opponent have an understanding of what you are going to be using in the coming game.

Sounds like nids in 5th vs Mech 100%

Yes and no...

I played my nids in 5th to...I wouldn't say great success, but I won against parking lot IG often enough...sometimes....

But yeah, this game has not been kind to Nids since 4th and then they were over the top.

Not in 4th, they had to deal with skimmerspam Eldar and Fish of Fury Tau...Irony that this came back for Eldar, though the Tau have new fun game breaking things.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
This thing is a disaster for Orks.

At least it's coming over to fight us in close combat, unlike those eldar and tau cheapskates

If I had a Knight and was fighting against Orks, I wouldn't be advancing. Let the double battlecannon shots do the damage.

Uh, why on earth would you hold back a model that can simply destroy every single choice of the ork codex by charging it? Are you that scared of a warboss lucking out on you? Thrakka is probably the only thing that can reliably kill a knight at all.

As an Eldar player, I'm thinking a wave-serpent load of Fire Dragons. Failing that Vaul's Wrath of D-Cannon. I could use Fire Prisms but that's more model purchases.

Opinions? Fire Dragons the best way for Eldar to kill it?

Doesn't D ignore inv too , thrakka is i1 , so the knight would be swining before him .

 Jidmah wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
This thing is a disaster for Orks.

At least it's coming over to fight us in close combat, unlike those eldar and tau cheapskates

If I had a Knight and was fighting against Orks, I wouldn't be advancing. Let the double battlecannon shots do the damage.

Uh, why on earth would you hold back a model that can simply destroy every single choice of the ork codex by charging it? Are you that scared of a warboss lucking out on you? Thrakka is probably the only thing that can reliably kill a knight at all.

Because I don't want to get tied down stomping on boyz the whole game. A smart Ork player won't let you get near anything worth killing in CC, they'll just feed you a bunch of Boyz to get stomped. I think 2 battle cannon shots does more damage to an Ork army than getting tied up in combat.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The Hive Guard (which have a range of 18") can be wiped out in a single round of double battle cannon shooting (72" range), or at least severely diminished. Also the thing has it's 4+ inv save still, so your 2-3 rounds is being a bit hopeful, more like 3-4 rounds. Even if all their shots hit, if half of them are bounced by the save, you're looking at 12 shots to kill it, from 3 Hive Guard that's 4 turns of shooting, and that's neglecting that some shots might scatter too far from the Knight to hit it.

Oddly enough, Impaler cannons are better than Shockcannons against Knights thanks to the higher volume of fire, higher chance of a pen rather than a glance, and ability to ignore cover saves. The ignore LoS rule rule also makes it easier to stay safe to boot, with the extra range potentially giving you an extra turn of shooting.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

You need to use Gargoyles. That's the only way I can see fexes beating a Knight. Charge it with a unit of Gargoyles to pin it in place long enough for the fexes to get there and charge it. But that little combo then costs more than the Knight, will still probably end up dead, and still has a good chance of the Knight player just running away anyway (if I saw 3 fexes opposite my Knight, I'd immediately move 12" in the opposite direction so they can't reach me until turn 4 or 5, by which time they're probably dead).

Unless I missed something, the Hive Tyrant can't take crushing claws. Crushing Claws aren't on the Wargear list, so they can only be taken by models who explicitly say they can take it (Tyrant Guard, Tervigon, Haruspex or Carnifex).

I hadn't spotted that about the Claws. Makes sense that the unit who can use them best can't take them...

Gargoyles aren't allowed to charge the Knight unfortunately. You're not allowed to charge a target you can't hurt (under the vehicle rules). The smallest tarpit option here are 'stealers, at 14pts each.

Xerics wrote:I just wish i was there to see you cry more.

Congratulations on being an asshoIe, I guess.

And I think you are wrong.

First of all, you are using an expensive super-heavy walker to simulate a squadron of two leman russes. Not point efficient.

Second, stomping onto piled-in boyz causes a metric ton of casualties, much more than your battlecannon could ever hope to archive when shooting at properly spread out boyz, kannons or lootaz. You just shoot the unit of boyz, charge it, stomp it, fight and stomp it again next turn, and have most of it dead and running by the time you're allowed to shoot again.

There is literally nothing an ork player ("smart" or not) can do to stop the knight, holding it back is just silly.

Edit: Answering to AllSeeingSkink, not to xttz

Instead of assaulting it could the ork player bubble wrap it with cheap blobs so it can't get into combat with meatier targets? Or would that just allow it to shoot with impunity?

What meatier targets? Also a unit of 30 boyz isn't exactly cheap at 180 points (+ whatever you decide to waste on a nob). Also between two stubbers, double battlecannon, four attacks on the charge (S D), hammer of wrath (S 10) and stomp, it wouldn't exactly be a huge obstacle. As soon as the numbers drop below 11 they are very likely to run since the knight tends to win combat by a landslide.

I guess the question is if a dispersed mob of boys can get close enough to attempt to bubble wrap a knight. If they succeed in bubble wrapping it I highly doubt the knight is going to try shooting them point blank with an ordinance template!

barnowl wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

I cannont wait for GW to release their new version of a BRB with Escalation and Stronghold Assault rolled into it making them legal to play compeltely without question. I just wish i was there to see you cry more.

Nah, not much crying, just picker in my games. I have enough uphill fights with my nid's. I don't need more "challenge". So will keep on just playing folks that don't bring Super heavies or D Weapons.

The above quote is a failure to adapt ladies and gentlemen.

I think a well built ork list can easily handle a knight.

Power klaw attrition and the lucky battlewagon who actually makes it up the table through the side armor shots and melta fire will hurt a knight.

Handling 3-5 knights... not so much. Even orks probably can't out attrition that many hull points, that many stomps, and that many 'lucky' STR D explosions from killed knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xerics wrote:


The above quote is a failure to adapt ladies and gentlemen.

No, its a failure to want to spend hundreds of dollars and hundreds of man hours assembling and painting trying to chase some sort of parity in a hideously broken game run by a hideously greedy company.

 Jidmah wrote:
What meatier targets? Also a unit of 30 boyz isn't exactly cheap at 180 points (+ whatever you decide to waste on a nob). Also between two stubbers, double battlecannon, four attacks on the charge (S D), hammer of wrath (S 10) and stomp, it wouldn't exactly be a huge obstacle. As soon as the numbers drop below 11 they are very likely to run since the knight tends to win combat by a landslide.

I'm not saying I'd avoid close combat. I just wouldn't be moving toward you. Sit back and fire off 4 or 6 Battlecannon shots in to your more valuable units until you get closer (Nobz, Lootas, etc). Once you're close, charge in and start doing damage there.

It's not the same as Leman Russes. Leman Russes sit there and once you get close enough to charge them they explode because of the sensitive rear armour. The Knight does what the Leman Russes do until you're close, at which point they start stomping you instead of just exploding. The Knight does more damage with shooting than it can do in combat against a big unit of Boyz.

Not that it really matters, charge in, don't charge in, it will decimate you either way.

I dunno, I think Orks could handle a Knight if played tactically, max out your elites with 2 full squads of lootas, potential of 90 S7 shots, depending on dice rolls, around 30-50% hit, then around half of them glancing. A few rounds of shooting could give a knight a bit of a headache.

I think a well built ork list can easily handle a knight.

Power klaw attrition and the lucky battlewagon who actually makes it up the table through the side armor shots and melta fire will hurt a knight.

Right, deff rollas might work. Orks don't melta though, the best we get is S8 AP2 "Gets Hot!". However, I've struggled to take out soul grinders with orks before, because we're lacking high strength firepower and you can't really fight it in close combat due to it instant-deathing everything. The knight is pretty much two soul grinders duct-taped to each other, except for having a solution to getting out of blobs in form of stomp. It's not really overpowered, orks just don't have an answer to that type of unit.

Btw, I'm off to steal my friend's soul grinders now, duct-tape them together and field them as looted imperial knight.

Goresaw wrote:
I think a well built ork list can easily handle a knight.

Power klaw attrition and the lucky battlewagon who actually makes it up the table through the side armor shots and melta fire will hurt a knight.

Handling 3-5 knights... not so much. Even orks probably can't out attrition that many hull points, that many stomps, and that many 'lucky' STR D explosions from killed knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xerics wrote:


The above quote is a failure to adapt ladies and gentlemen.

No, its a failure to want to spend hundreds of dollars and hundreds of man hours assembling and painting trying to chase some sort of parity in a hideously broken game run by a hideously greedy company.

Well you guys keep playing your skirmish games all you'd like. When you're ready to play an actual war game rather than a skirmish game come talk to me. 2000 points in an army is a skirmish. its not really an army list at that point its a scouting list. If you have under 150 models per side on the field then it isn't a war. The game actually gets less broken the higher point value you have (until you add super heavies). Death stars fall more easily under the weight of fire. You should try it sometime. Tau gun line inst so fierce when you drop down 500 boyz on the table and run them right up to the Tau's face. Play a war of 7000 points of non super heavies and tell me how much more fun it was rather than plopping your scouting party on the table only to watch it get removed by a Tau scouting party because you weren't able to compete with their gun line camping nature.

Again. A knight, as in single. Yes. Maybe. And hopefully you'll have enough of an army left to handle the other 1500ish points of your opponent's army.

Three to five... you know, the knight army. Orks handling it... probably not so much.

And I wasn't refering to ork's melta capacity. I was refering to the fact that most of your battlewagons are going to end up smoking wrecks on the way up to try to kill the knight.

The knights have those melta cannons which will utterly wreck a wagon or two. As 'tough' as a wagon is supposed to be, a single pen has a 50-66% to make the thing go nuclear. And your opponent will most likely be getting side shots on it as you push it up the field to try to ram the knight. I'd expect a 3 to 1 ratio of battlewagon to knight kills. Which is fine because a knight costs 3 times as much as a battlewagon

Problem is, orks don't have Codex: Battlewagon. You can't bring 15 battlewagons.

 xttz wrote:
Gargoyles aren't allowed to charge the Knight unfortunately. You're not allowed to charge a target you can't hurt (under the vehicle rules). The smallest tarpit option here are 'stealers, at 14pts each.

Hmmm, never noticed that. It applies to walkers as well?

I guess you could fly the gargoyles around it, forcing it to charge them or be locked in place by them, but given the Knight moves 12" that again will be damned near impossible.

So the basic conclusion we are coming to is that the Knight is a pain for 'nids, lol. The only saving grace is that most nids are either too cheap to care about being blown apart, and MC aren't overly concerned about battle cannon fire. If you have any Warriors, Raveners, Hive Guard, Zoans, etc... better make sure they have a good cover save, lol.


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 Xerics wrote:
Well you guys keep playing your skirmish games all you'd like.

The funny thing about this... when everyone takes big monsters and superheavies, the game basically becomes a skirmish game again.

A 2000pt game that revolves around 3 or 4 models is more of a skirmish than a 500pt game that revolves around 20-40 models.