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So in no uncertain terms, i've been told by many players in my local club, they'll refuse to play me if I bring my Knight titan. Played this Tau guy, play him most weeks and generally he'll win (general camping Tau tactics, smart missiles, marker lights, riptides etc.) this time I tore him apart with my Storm Raven/IK combo, now hes saying he won't play me again. Now everytime I get tabled by him (it's not hard when i'm running a 12 model list...) I don't moan, I just take it in my stride, I don't care it's all fun. However, since he played something he didn't know how to deal with right away, he's gonna refuse any games from now on.
This other guy too, who brings stuff from stronghold assault without even asking his opponent (i know its part of 40k now, but its common courtesy) says he won't play me either. Yet, he is one of the most try hard WAAC players, he's the most irritant person to play against, however he's a challenge.

I can understand the worry of coming up against a super heavy with D strength weapons, but really it's not invincible in the slightest. You won't know how to take it down, unless you've come across one. Has anyone else had this problem so far?

"Fair enough. I'll not bring him again"..."oh, please don't bring your riptide next time we play. I'm not playing you with those".

Refusing to play a legal force "because" is rather petty. Especially for someone with multi riptides.

"Can you please not use that as I Cannot afford to buy/proxy a model capable of dealing with it and it would render the game unbalanced and therefore pointless"

This is arguably acceptable

"Wah Wah GW finally released something on par with my G.I. Joe sized walker and I don't like that my walker now has a counter balance"

This is unacceptable


Now admittedly having seen the Knight's stat's its not gamebreakingly unkillable or devastating and certainly has a place in standard 40k, this coming from someone who very much dislikes the new escalation and stronghold assault supplements being rolled into core 40k.

The point is the game should be balanced to avoid being a boring slaughter. The knight is fairly well balanced as a model in pre-escalation, yes its killy and tanky but since 6th edition hit no one;s really had to use true anti tank, we've been reliant on autocannons and meltacide units its nice to see a legitimate reason to start packing real ranged anti tank weapons.

I'm under no illusions that it's essentially all mine will ever be, but large models are my favorite to build and paint, so I'm ok with that.

If I get to give him a run out now and again to shake loose the (painstakingly applied by hand) rust and dirt, then I'll view it as a bonus.

Which, considering it is fundamentally a gaming piece, first and foremost, is a bit sad when you think about it.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why game balance is a GOOD thing.

A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

Still a vehicle, cannot ignore cover, can be one shotted, his 4++ save only covers one direction.


Anyways it sounds like spoiled children mad they cannot curbstomp someone anymore.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

Still a vehicle, cannot ignore cover, can be one shotted, his 4++ save only covers one direction.


Anyways it sounds like spoiled children mad they cannot curbstomp someone anymore.

Can't one shot a super heavy with less than a D weapon, if that.

I play nids, I don't curb stomp anyone. I can threaten and tarpit riptides. Heck even my super heavies are going to have trouble with it and cost near double.

Doesn't the knight only have 6HP?

I just can't believe what people will say that need to win with plastic toy soldiers.

Why not go to the guy who plays Tau, and tell him nicely how you keep loosing every game and get tabled, but yet not complain about it. Then tell him how it's funny he looses one game and he is copping out of playing a game.

Then ask him how it's ok for him to play over powered games and nobody else can play one against him.

yeah sounds like the people crying are the guys who have been at the powerful side of things and are angry. for the record I was talking to an eldar player at my local GW today, whose brother has IKs. he says they're tough but he's reasonably comfortable a WK can take em down.

let alone the two he can afford for the price of a knight

baritowned wrote:
Doesn't the knight only have 6HP?

Yes, it might not be one shotted exactly, but it'll go down in quite fewer hits then the Riptide.

Well, it seems OP plays with rare breed of gakkers.

1 - IK, just single one is balanced. Strong, but can be destroyed even with mediocre use of common sense and antitank weaponry.
2 - But Ok, sometimes its fin to say you dont want to play some units.
3 - But from the guy making cheesy riptide lists and worse, guy who uses SA?? Thats strong stuff to digest. I would recommend to say OK, no Knight...but in tjat case Im bored by your Riptides/ dont agree with using SA.

And honestly, is there fun in playing with kids (and they are kids, no matter their biological age)? I hope there are other players in your FLGS, because this is just petulent cryin "I want to win my games...at aaaaal cost!" and soun to me rather like annoyance.

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

Yeah, too bad it costs 375 points and has, what, 24"range, 12 run?

Now lets consider Riptides 72 range, with the TL missile systems, or 2+/3++ or 3d6 thrust move(i mean, a knight cant even CATCH it) or the other interceptor bs it has, All for what? 2/3 of the price? Also MC.

Please, stahp defending your riptides.

As much as it's anecdotal, I can attest to a single Knight being far from impossible to take out. Only today, mine was brought down, with 4 of the 6 HP being stripped by a single melta shot, so it's not like they're entirely unkillable monstrosities. 2+ is probably pushing it, but most armies can probably take 1 without too much trouble, especially if they know you're bringing one. Anyone refusing to play one is perfectly within their rights, but also probably overreacting far too much.

The thing with Knights is, you actually have to play strategically to beat them, so anyone who's used to playing a point-and-click army is going to have to (shock horror) actually think about what they are doing.

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

IK is 6HP.
4+ invul works only in shooting and on direction from four.
He is seriously weakened in CC woth anythin else than MC or vehicle. You can tarpit him, he has average WS, invul doesnt work.
Actually S10 AP1 can end him very quickly.
I have seen him destroyed by vendetta, simple LC platoon, of course meltavets, took apart in CC by space maeines etc. Usually aroun turn 3 or 4 and he wasnt only target.

Sorry but this is just making urban WH40K legend. And if "some armies" cant take AV13 in six turn as you say, well, its just bad armies or degenerated by specific meta.
Sometimes I feel people are spinning such storoes just because there is unit which requires different tactics and sometimes, god forbid, tweaking of army list, because "ignore cover on ALL" doesnt work on him. For example.

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

Wait, seriously?! Are you unable to read or just really new to 40k. Armor 13/12 and 6HP is unfairly tough for what army? If you play DE I might give you a pass, but otherwise you don't have much to go on here. I don't think a TAC list I run (see sig for armies I play) would find the IK broken to deal with. I'd expect it to do about about 400 points of damage on the way out, unless I do something dumb or roll poorly... Which is how a game should go. 400 points of anti-vehicle tau would drop one in most games. A cadre would do it no problem.

I'm sorry, but I'll give props where they're due. This is a very well balanced unit (especially when just running a stag). I'll gladly use one or two, and would be far less worried about this than a VessaStar(sp?) or a SeerStar in a tourney. For a Tau player to begrudge an IK is just stupid hypocrisy defined.

Someone who refuses to play a knight titan has absolutely no valid reason for refusal other than they just don't want to play against that particular unit. It's exactly the same as refusing to play against Riptides because you think they are overpowered. That generally isn't considered acceptable, so why is refusing to play against a knight?

Knights are very obviously NOT Escalation despite some people's tendency to bury their heads in the sand.

We can all see the way GW is going with superheavies so what's the point in trying to resist? Jump on board and start having fun.

 UlrikDecado wrote:

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

IK is 6HP.
4+ invul works only in shooting and on direction from four.
He is seriously weakened in CC woth anythin else than MC or vehicle. You can tarpit him, he has average WS, invul doesnt work.
Actually S10 AP1 can end him very quickly.
I have seen him destroyed by vendetta, simple LC platoon, of course meltavets, took apart in CC by space maeines etc. Usually aroun turn 3 or 4 and he wasnt only target.

Sorry but this is just making urban WH40K legend. And if "some armies" cant take AV13 in six turn as you say, well, its just bad armies or degenerated by specific meta.
Sometimes I feel people are spinning such storoes just because there is unit which requires different tactics and sometimes, god forbid, tweaking of army list, because "ignore cover on ALL" doesnt work on him. For example.

Only 6 HP? Thought it was 9, that does make it a little easier but not much. I have also seen a lone guant hold a wraithknight up for 4 rounds, does not mean it is typical or mathematically probable.

Nid's have a hard time against av13 and 14 period, since they actually have to catch it for CC. IG and Marines can handles one Knight as they have alot of options for it. Stomp is going to chew through most tarpit units. All Super Heavy walkers get a chance to one shot an MC/FMC in melee even with out a D weapon. Stomp damage chart of a 6 is removed from play. And if you do kill it in melee, you have the wonderful 15" blast to take the lucky melee unit out. If you army doesn't have mass S9 ap2/1 or s10 ap2/1 or ap2/1 melta it is going to be an uphill fight against more than one knight.

barnowl wrote:
If you army does have mass S9 ap2/1 or s10 ap2/1 or ap2/1 melta it is going to be an uphill fight against more than one knight.

Fortunately for me, my Eldar list has mass S8 AP2 Lance weapons.

 Lobukia wrote:

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

Wait, seriously?! Are you unable to read or just really new to 40k. Armor 13/12 and 6HP is unfairly tough for what army? If you play DE I might give you a pass, but otherwise you don't have much to go on here. I don't think a TAC list I run (see sig for armies I play) would find the IK broken to deal with. I'd expect it to do about about 400 points of damage on the way out, unless I do something dumb or roll poorly... Which is how a game should go. 400 points of anti-vehicle tau would drop one in most games. A cadre would do it no problem.

I'm sorry, but I'll give props where they're due. This is a very well balanced unit (especially when just running a stag). I'll gladly use one or two, and would be far less worried about this than a VessaStar(sp?) or a SeerStar in a tourney. For a Tau player to begrudge an IK is just stupid hypocrisy defined.

I can see Tau/Ig/Marine and maybe Eldar having not much trouble with a solo. DE/Ork/Nid/Sister I see having very hard times with them. If it had not been a super heavy it would be pretty balanced. I find the super heavy and D melee skew it to much. The I'K is a much stronger unit than a RipTide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:

barnowl wrote:
If you army does have mass S9 ap2/1 or s10 ap2/1 or ap2/1 melta it is going to be an uphill fight against more than one knight.

Fortunately for me, my Eldar list has mass S8 AP2 Lance weapons.

That is one of the reasons I see eldar fairing okay against them.

I refuse to play against a Knight Titan.

I will give anyone who attempts to call their Knight suit a Titan a flat look until they squirm and apologise.

Unfortunately i cannot play 40k as there is nobody who does in my area, however i wouldnt really care if someone fielded one of those Imperial Knights.
2 Predator tanks with 3 lascannons each and problem solved.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I refuse to play against a Knight Titan.

I will give anyone who attempts to call their Knight suit a Titan a flat look until they squirm and apologise.

Given GW have called it a Knight Titan... you may be staring at them a mighty long time before you get an apology.

Find a more mature group of players who have learned that sometimes you get to be the cops and they can be the robbers and then sometimes you will be the robbers and they can be the cops.

I learned this when I was 6.

What is it with people insisting on commenting on units when they clearly have no idea how they function?

That said, OP, your group sounds like a bunch of tossers.

This thing is a disaster for Orks.

 TedNugent wrote:
This thing is a disaster for Orks.

a stompa outta be able to handle knights. in terms of cash outlay Orks actually are in a good place as their super heavy is cheaper

Sounds like a bunch of real champions don't want to have their hard won winning streaks ruined by someone who brought a bigger gun. They're just being childish, don't take it too hard.

If, of course, what the OP is saying is 100% true.

I'm sorry, Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle cant take it down?

Are you being serious?