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 Massaen wrote:
Nids FMC do a number on knights with ease and a brood of fexes should wreck it with ease though will loose a fex in the process. Orks mega nobs just destroy it on the charge... Much like most vehicles

If you're lucky you'll only lose a fex. If you're unlucky, you'll lose all the fexes and not kill it.

Then once it dies, it explodes with catastrophic damage. Even the lowest form of catastrophic damage is a Strength D hit to all things within 2.5", so there goes the other fexes.

Basically, with nids, you have a chance to kill it with 3 fexes, however you have a chance it will kill all of them in the process, so you spent 360pts with of Carnies to kill a 375pt model which probably already wiped out a couple of hundred points with shooting before you ever got near it... if you ever do get near it given it moves 12".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think people need to get in to the habit of swapping armies. A few of my friends used to complain my army was overpowered all the time, so I started swapping armies with them and proving they could win as well.

As someone who has used Super Heavies alot recently I can tell you they're not much more durable then you think if you factor in 6's on pen, easy to do with melta. Although I've always had bad luck with enemies getting 6's on Pens I still think it's a valid observation.

Anecdotally I've had a HellHammer blow up in the first turn from LC Devastators with tank hunters, re-rolls to hit, and ignores cover.

The best thing to utilize against it with Tyranids is probably a hive crone. S8 vector strikes against armor 12 is pretty solid and it's in the movement phase so he won't be getting that 4++ save. Only having 24" flying is the issue. Still, the Paladin only has 6 shots against flyers and it's all snap fires, so the likelyhood of it even causing a grounded check is sub-once a turn even on a Seneschal. It's haywire missiles for turns you're just out of range will cause some damage, too.

They are going to change up the meta, which is good. For a casual FLGS group like we've got here in my neck of the woods, though, they are going to be a big issue. Luckily we're of the collective mind the best games to play are the ones where both armies are evenly matched and there's a lot of communication that goes on between all the players both while we're at the store and through social media websites. We've got a few more hardcore players that are chomping at the bits to kill Knights, and several guys in it more for the hobby/modeling aspect who have no desire to ever face one.

The Tau player is seeing the end of point-delete tactics, it has nothing to do with you. If someone refuses to play against your knights, kindly ask if it's ok to limit their army. I had someone tell me they wouldn't play me if I used three drakes (I don't do this in friendly games, anyways), so the next time I see him I'll tell him I won't play against him if he uses wraithknights/riptides etc.

 randomtoaster wrote:
So in no uncertain terms, i've been told by many players in my local club, they'll refuse to play me if I bring my Knight titan. Played this Tau guy, play him most weeks and generally he'll win (general camping Tau tactics, smart missiles, marker lights, riptides etc.) this time I tore him apart with my Storm Raven/IK combo, now hes saying he won't play me again. Now everytime I get tabled by him (it's not hard when i'm running a 12 model list...) I don't moan, I just take it in my stride, I don't care it's all fun. However, since he played something he didn't know how to deal with right away, he's gonna refuse any games from now on.
This other guy too, who brings stuff from stronghold assault without even asking his opponent (i know its part of 40k now, but its common courtesy) says he won't play me either. Yet, he is one of the most try hard WAAC players, he's the most irritant person to play against, however he's a challenge.

I can understand the worry of coming up against a super heavy with D strength weapons, but really it's not invincible in the slightest. You won't know how to take it down, unless you've come across one. Has anyone else had this problem so far?

He's just a sore loser, and he needs to get into the arms race, and upgrade his army to have a Knight killer. IMO

Let's hope the Orks get some way to deal with Knights in their new codex aside from bringing a Stompa. I haven't played against one yet but the typical strategy of "Charge it with power klaws" seems like suicide.

It takes approx 24 power claw attacks on the charge to down a knight by glancing it to death... So 6 mega nobs... 8 to be safe (as you will loose a couple to the knight before you swing)

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Then I'll declare myself the best 40k player in the store and have everyone else buy me chips, coffee, and also assemble my models. They won't have a choice because they're be too scurred of mah Knight!

And everyone in the room will back away and make excuses to leave.

They won't be able to - my Knight will be guarding the doors and will viciously murder anyone who tries to leave without my express written consent. Seriously, they're so scared of the thing, they'll definitely have to obey.

And this is the point at which I back away and make excuses to leave...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
And they'll tell you to shove it where the sun don't shine. Bluster all you like, other players are not obliged to play against you in a friendly setting. If they don't want to play against a Superheavy in a normal game of 40K, they don't have to play with you.

Go play at a tournament if you want captive opponents.

Sure, and I'm not obliged to play against ork players in a normal game of 40K, either.

Because an IK army is just as "standard" in a "normal" game of 40K as an ork army is. Word of God (GW) says so.

Ah. I see the problem here.

I'm Atheist.

So sure. If I put my knights on the table and some beta says that they refuse to play me, that's their right, so long as they admit that the grounds for their refusal isn't any different from the justification for refusing to play an IG player, or a Space Marine player, or a player of any other standard 40K army using standard 40K units.

True. Its still their choice and you can't take that choice away from them, however petty you may think their reasoning to be. This is why its important to have a well written, well balanced game. If it was balanced, fewer people would be so upset and feel that certain armies are unfair and overpowered.

This really is GW's fault for writing a pile of crap, not the customers who complain about the pile of crap.

- - - - - - -

Anyway, RE: the Knight OP argument. It's only AV13, and you only need one penetrating hit and a decent roll to pop it. I wouldn't call the Knight OP anymore than I'd call a Land Raider OP, especially for its cost.

Perhaps not. I havn't played in a long time, and havn't seen the Knight rules first hand, but my arguments about Superheavies apply to Superheavies in general. Baneblades, Warhounds, Revenants. I don't want to play with Superheavies in a normal, 1500 pt game. I doubt they'll be fun to play against at such low points, so why should I? I'm not looking forward to returning to the game if I can expect to face Superheavies in a normal game.

 cvtuttle wrote:
Find a more mature group of players who have learned that sometimes you get to be the cops and they can be the robbers and then sometimes you will be the robbers and they can be the cops.

I learned this when I was 6.

This man always bring a voice of reason , a shame if you put on the shelve your knight, the problem isnt the model, the problem are the players, as the man say, sometime you have to run but somtimes someone have to run from you, if they didnt undertand that then find new friends (mature ones) or even a new store were to play, sad but true .

 SRSFACE wrote:
The best thing to utilize against it with Tyranids is probably a hive crone. S8 vector strikes against armor 12 is pretty solid and it's in the movement phase so he won't be getting that 4++ save..

He still gets the 4++ save. The problem is he has to declare a specific side, and we have no idea which side Vector Strikes hit on.

Said this at the start of all the hype when rules were leaked, and ill say it again.
Knights really are not hard to bring down.

Its simply people whining about them before actually facing one.
My 1st game was against a pair of them allied to a guard army and the guard actually did more damage than the knights did.

By turn 5 both of them were a smoking crater on the field, one of which was like it at the end of turn 2.

I would go as far as to say that knights really dont even belong in a tournament enviroment, they really are poor compared to other options.

I think its just a case of people having to actually play against one or see it happen, and they will see just how easy it is to bring down.

Take a monolith for example.
AV14 all round, plenty of hull points, and just over half the cos of a knight.
More armies will struggle to kill this than a knight.



And to the guy that said sisters, DE and orks will struggle;

DE will roll through a knight in a turn or 2.
A trio of ravagers really will give the knight a headache.

Sisters carry enough melta to scare pretty much anything on the board, superheavy or not.

Orks on the other hand, they struggle with armour anyway, so your simply raising a point that has been raised time and time again.
If orks ever want to hunt armour, invest in deff rollers and smash through them.
Either way, orks have struggled with armour for a long time, and are in need of an update IMO.

This whole "i wont play dat!!!!" attitude is starting to get really childish.

Just enjoy the game and man up. Unbelievable how whiny people get over toy soldiers.

 randomtoaster wrote:
So in no uncertain terms, i've been told by many players in my local club, they'll refuse to play me if I bring my Knight titan. Played this Tau guy, play him most weeks and generally he'll win (general camping Tau tactics, smart missiles, marker lights, riptides etc.) this time I tore him apart with my Storm Raven/IK combo, now hes saying he won't play me again. Now everytime I get tabled by him (it's not hard when i'm running a 12 model list...) I don't moan, I just take it in my stride, I don't care it's all fun. However, since he played something he didn't know how to deal with right away, he's gonna refuse any games from now on.
This other guy too, who brings stuff from stronghold assault without even asking his opponent (i know its part of 40k now, but its common courtesy) says he won't play me either. Yet, he is one of the most try hard WAAC players, he's the most irritant person to play against, however he's a challenge.

I can understand the worry of coming up against a super heavy with D strength weapons, but really it's not invincible in the slightest. You won't know how to take it down, unless you've come across one. Has anyone else had this problem so far?

Your clubmates sound like a bunch of bitches. Knights aren't the bogey men people think they are, they put out less firepower than a regular guard parking lot army and those scary strength D chainswords? whoop-di-do, they can't even stand up to flyers!

I reckon you should tell your club to sack up and get over it(especially tau guy), it's not the end of the world.

(heh, double click to quick edit? amazing)

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Anyway, RE: the Knight OP argument. It's only AV13, and you only need one penetrating hit and a decent roll to pop it. I wouldn't call the Knight OP anymore than I'd call a Land Raider OP, especially for its cost.

How did I miss this?

That's not how super heavies work. "One penetrating hit" at best does 4 hull points out of it's 6. You need a 6 on your initial penetrating hit roll, and then another 5 or 6 on the "additional D3 hull points" it loses. Even with AP1 weaponry, taking down more than 2 or 3 hull points in a single penetrating hit won't happen often.

And you're not factoring in the 4++ invulnerable save. These things are significantly harder to kill than Land Raiders. Superheavies are no joke.

Honestly the race I see having the easiest time with it is Necron. Spam enough Gauss weapons and any vehicle goes down like a chump. That's about it, though. Eldar don't run enough stuff in the typical best lists to even hurt it til they bring a revenant titan. Thing is that revenant titan is about 2 and a half knights in cost. Easily worth it, but just saying. Without one, Eldar tend to just be spamming a bunch of S6 weaponry which isn't going to scratch the thing.

Lascannon devastator builds might make a comeback. Terminator squads with a bunch of chainfists would probably fair well against one, as at worst you're losing 3 guys to the D weapon and you'd get your 2+ armor against the stomps. You'd just have to pray it scattered away when it blows up so your guys were out of the D blast range.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Someone who refuses to play a knight titan has absolutely no valid reason for refusal other than they just don't want to play against that particular unit. It's exactly the same as refusing to play against Riptides because you think they are overpowered. That generally isn't considered acceptable, so why is refusing to play against a knight?

Knights are very obviously NOT Escalation despite some people's tendency to bury their heads in the sand.

We can all see the way GW is going with superheavies so what's the point in trying to resist? Jump on board and start having fun.

If it has a D weapon it's Escalation/Apocalypse, there's no denying, so it's fair IMO to not want to play with it.

However it if is in an official codex, and Knight Titans are now, then it's a core 40K option, so it's not fair IMO to not want to play with it.

This is a mess that GW have got the rules in.

 SRSFACE wrote:
The best thing to utilize against it with Tyranids is probably a hive crone. S8 vector strikes against armor 12 is pretty solid and it's in the movement phase so he won't be getting that 4++ save. Only having 24" flying is the issue. Still, the Paladin only has 6 shots against flyers and it's all snap fires, so the likelyhood of it even causing a grounded check is sub-once a turn even on a Seneschal. It's haywire missiles for turns you're just out of range will cause some damage, too.

I hadn't really considered the Crone to be honest! That is an interesting option to take on the Knight, but it will still be a tough task.

If I'm not mistaken, the Crone has to reposition itself after each strike, as it can only turn 90 degrees before it swoops and that's it?

So you swoop and strike one turn, then either spend the next turn not swooping to turn around (risking getting blown away as anything and everything can now easily hit you) or spend a couple of turns either swooping around in a circle or swooping off the table and coming back on.

And while the Paladin isn't likely to hurt a Crone, realistically I think in any army that is remotely competitive you won't see Knights by themselves, they'll be allied to another army which potentially has AA.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

True. Its still their choice and you can't take that choice away from them, however petty you may think their reasoning to be. This is why its important to have a well written, well balanced game. If it was balanced, fewer people would be so upset and feel that certain armies are unfair and overpowered.

This really is GW's fault for writing a pile of crap, not the customers who complain about the pile of crap.

If I want balanced ill play chess.

You may want to consider playing that game if balance is what you care about most.

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

True. Its still their choice and you can't take that choice away from them, however petty you may think their reasoning to be. This is why its important to have a well written, well balanced game. If it was balanced, fewer people would be so upset and feel that certain armies are unfair and overpowered.

This really is GW's fault for writing a pile of crap, not the customers who complain about the pile of crap.

If I want balanced ill play chess.

You may want to consider playing that game if balance is what you care about most.

Yes, god forbid people want rules that have some thought beyond "This will look cool, and we can charge a lot as well!"

Given that we have Eldar Wraith Knights, and cheese like Wave Serpents, Seer Council and Rip tides - I can't see the issue....

Its a new 40K codex - people banning the Imperial Knight and not the Chesse / problem units above are being very hypocrictical IMO.

I will be playing with mine in the next local club tournament after having checking twith the TO and other players.

SRSFACE - If the knight is getting a 4++ then it means you are shooting the wrong armour facing.
Why on earth would you aim at a single facing covered by the shield, when its easy enough to hit 2 others that arent covered?

And no, its not a great deal harder to kill than a land raider is.
Yes, it has 2 more HP, but it also has lower AV aswell, meaning alot more shots from lower strength weapons will get through compared to firing mass S9+ at it.

Points wise, you can also take 2 riptides for the same cost (and nearly money wise too!)
In which case, i rather be facing a knight over a pair of riptides as their damage potential and ability to get out the way (not to mention range) makes them far more destructive on the field.
Also, dropping them in 2-3 shots isnt possible either.

There seems to be this craze of "OMG! its OP!" every time something new comes out.
40k has changed alot, and will continue to do so.
People cant keep running the same stock lists and hope to win all the time, you need to adapt.

Granted, daemons and nids get the short end of the stick here since they rely on MC's in combat to take down alot of armour, and being hit by a D weapon really is no fun.
Both thirsters and tyrants fall just as easily to it.
However, you can both make use of flyers, something a knight cant do, let alone hurt.



Ive killed a pair of knights fairly easy with my necrons, but that was due to sheer volume of gauss fire and a bit of haywire for good measure.
That is however the strongest anti-armour method for necrons really.

Some armies lack the ability to take them out easily, but all have something in the list that can damage them.


On the plus side, ive seen this as a good chance to bring back by eldar wraith army since they have been sat collecting dust.
10 S10 AP2 shots per unit will more than likely kill a knight in a single turn.

So i'd be more than happy to face a full knight list with my eldar.
However, much like facing draigo/logan/death wing, it would be a great match up for me.
Small elite armies fall easily to a hard counter.


I do however see guard bringing vendettas in the masses now more so than usual.
The potential they have for bringing down a knight with no harm in return really isnt matched.

Only other army that could be amusing against full knight would be cron air.
4+ min units of warriors in night scythes, 3 doom scythes and a few other units for added cheese.

S7 weapons on basic can glance front or pen the sides, and since they average 4 hits each, thats pretty damn good.
Not to mention S10 AP1 death rays cutting through them.

And this isnt really a rare army to see either, its pretty commonly used.
And more to the point, the knights cant hurt it with anything.
They have to sit there and take the punishment.

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

True. Its still their choice and you can't take that choice away from them, however petty you may think their reasoning to be. This is why its important to have a well written, well balanced game. If it was balanced, fewer people would be so upset and feel that certain armies are unfair and overpowered.

This really is GW's fault for writing a pile of crap, not the customers who complain about the pile of crap.

If I want balanced ill play chess.

You may want to consider playing that game if balance is what you care about most.

Yes, god forbid people want rules that have some thought beyond "This will look cool, and we can charge a lot as well!"

The knight model in chess looks cool and it can move in a L shape.

Don't even go there bro.

 Jackal wrote:
SRSFACE - If the knight is getting a 4++ then it means you are shooting the wrong armour facing.
Why on earth would you aim at a single facing covered by the shield, when its easy enough to hit 2 others that arent covered?

You look at the dimensions for the Knight? It's front facing is *huge*. Go look at how you determine which armor your hitting on page 73. At best, you'll have like one squad hitting it from another angle, and chances are it won't be the squad that has the best chance of hurting it. Also, THEY GET TO PICK WHICH SHIELD FACING THEY GET ON YOUR TURN. You *have* to fire at it with multiple units in order to avoid the 4++. You can't NOT aim for the "single facing covered by the shield" unless you managed to get two squads flanking it.

And no, its not a great deal harder to kill than a land raider is.
Yes, it has 2 more HP, but it also has lower AV aswell, meaning alot more shots from lower strength weapons will get through compared to firing mass S9+ at it.

Land Raiders suffer massive penalties for every penetrating hit they take. Super-Heavy walkers only take a few extra hull points of damage on a 6. To reiterate, something that guarantees instant-kills a land raider at best does 2/3rds of the hull points to a Knight.

Also, AV13 and 14 aren't that different, compared to 12 and 13. You're going to shoot the same weaponry at it. True, it can be glanced by plasma. Also true, shooting your S7 weaponry at something with the hope to glance instead of killing the things S7 AP2 is designed to kill is a bad idea and I'd be happy you did so against my knight.

I'm not saying you can't kill them, but it is a lot harder than it is to kill a land raider. I frequently insta-gib land raiders with multi-melta attack bikes. You can't really do that to a knight.

Apart from its front it has the same armour as Cheese Serpents who of course have their S7 TL gun..............

Its a lot of points in one model

You look at the dimensions for the Knight? It's front facing is *huge*. Go look at how you determine which armor your hitting on page 73. At best, you'll have like one squad hitting it from another angle, and chances are it won't be the squad that has the best chance of hurting it. Also, THEY GET TO PICK WHICH SHIELD FACING THEY GET ON YOUR TURN. You *have* to fire at it with multiple units in order to avoid the 4++. You can't NOT aim for the "single facing covered by the shield" unless you managed to get two squads flanking it.

If your dumb enough to have all of your anti armour in the same area then again, you have made a mistake.
Yes, i know the size and the rules for them, because i have one sat on the shelf infront of me, along with the codex.

Im sorry, but your entire complaint here is based on poor tactics and dumb deployment, what do you really expect to do with this?



You tactics seems flawed here.
A tesla destructor as i said is not plasma.
Yes, S7 can glance the front, it does however pen the side armour too, which for a flyer, isnt hard to do.
Now, you get 4 shots with each tesla destructore, which over 6 vehicles gives you 24 shots, which average 24 hits because of the rules.
Thats 4 glances and 4 pens straight away.
Its dead.

AV13 and AV14 are actually very different and one of the largest gaps in armour.
Mainly due to AV14 also having similar armour on its sides too.
The current meta has shifted from melta to plasma spam, which means land raiders dont get scratched by it.

So glancing vehicles to death isnt a good way to do it?
Please read a necron tactica or anything that mentions haywire and get back to me eh?

You also cant 1 shot a riptide with a multi-melta, whats your point?



Anyone can say X units can kill Y unit, but that still gives no bearing in game.
If you think glancing something to death is unreliable, why trust attack bikes? lol, seems even more flawed to me.





All in all, they are stupidly heavy on points (70 more than a kitted out wraithknight!) and really dont do alot to earn the points back.
They are more area denial like swarmlord is.

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 carlos13th wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:

danp164 wrote:
"Can you please not use that as I Cannot afford to buy/proxy a model capable of dealing with it and it would render the game unbalanced and therefore pointless"

This is arguably acceptable

How so?

Because it is saying "in the interest of having a fair and enjoyable game, would you mind not using that as I don't have anything that can deal with it" which is a fairly reasonable request and will likely mean both players have a more challenging and enjoyable game.

Sounds to me like the people your describing are in the wrong hobby. 40k ant cheap and if you have the money to buy these legal models and legal armies, nobody regardless of their economic standing (lol) has a valid reason to say no.

So 40k should be pay to win?

Welcome to planet earth where he who has the most money wins!

Enjoy your stay

That and I thought winning wasn't important to the casual/economically challenged crowd? If wining does indeed matter then step your game up, work overtime, save money to buy a counter to that. Or if winning isn't important to the same crowd, then take your losses like a man.

Personally I would just rather not play with someone who has your attitude.

I don't care about winning. I Would however like to play a game that's decided by how a person plays not what they have payed for. It's meant to be a wargame not a purchasing stuff simulator.

 Jackal wrote:
hurr hurr i play necrons and laugh at armor.

This is essentially your argument, smug laughter and all.

Frankly, it's annoying. All Necron players do it, and trust me when I say the rest of us get it. It doesn't help our armies, though.

Marines: You've got Melta Guns, Lascannons and Plasma guns. Minimum, that means you've got 10 points worth of gun on a 14 point body, and even then that guy needs to be stupidly close to get a hit in. So let's go ahead and say Lascannons on Devastator squads. Wait, they can't move and shoot so it's really easy for the Knight to get proper facing. Plus, the Paladin outranges them.

Bunch of Storm Talons? Yeah that could work. You've got the mobility and flyers in general are good against it. Probably your best options for Space Marines outside of fielding your own Knight. If they have an allied detachment with a ADL and either gun variant, you can kiss at least one of them goodbye when it arrives, though, because it's pretty easy to position your knight in such a way their flyers would be in sight and in range of your ADL gun. Plus, "when it arrives" isn't always turn 2 and even then, it's still not on the table to attempt to kill their big bad on turn 1.

Eldar: Serpent Shields can glance it, and it's a mobile enough base to zoom to the sides where the Scatterlasers can glance. Thing is, if you DON'T roll a lot of 6s, the shields are down and either Knight variant will blow it up. Crimson Hunters are mobile enough and with vector dancer can bright lance it to death. I like the option, but again, ADL gun and having to wait until minimum turn 2 so it's going to get in shooting.

-----------

Another thing: it's like you pretend people playing Knights also can't utilize deployment and terrain to keep it relatively safe. The Paladin has 60" range. Park it in the corner on a 4x6 map and it still has range to pretty much everything, with that armor 13 still in the front. Claiming someone has "bad tactics" while also assuming your superior tactics are going against "bad tactics" is a strawman argument. Theory away. I'm going to attempt to keep my opinions grounded in factual reality of what actually happens on the game state.

Also, welcome to my growing ignore list. There's no reason for you to call me stupid with what I've said. Be civil.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 SRSFACE wrote:
The best thing to utilize against it with Tyranids is probably a hive crone. S8 vector strikes against armor 12 is pretty solid and it's in the movement phase so he won't be getting that 4++ save. Only having 24" flying is the issue. Still, the Paladin only has 6 shots against flyers and it's all snap fires, so the likelyhood of it even causing a grounded check is sub-once a turn even on a Seneschal. It's haywire missiles for turns you're just out of range will cause some damage, too.

I hadn't really considered the Crone to be honest! That is an interesting option to take on the Knight, but it will still be a tough task.

If I'm not mistaken, the Crone has to reposition itself after each strike, as it can only turn 90 degrees before it swoops and that's it?

So you swoop and strike one turn, then either spend the next turn not swooping to turn around (risking getting blown away as anything and everything can now easily hit you) or spend a couple of turns either swooping around in a circle or swooping off the table and coming back on.

And while the Paladin isn't likely to hurt a Crone, realistically I think in any army that is remotely competitive you won't see Knights by themselves, they'll be allied to another army which potentially has AA.

FMCs are not restricted to 90 degree turning like Flyers. So a Crone can hit it every turn with VS as long as it is alive...the problem with this is that Crones are incredibly squishy and can be grounded super fast with small arms fire and if it is in range to VS the Knight, it is in range to be assaulted by the Knight. I think the Crone IS the best option for Tyranids but that really isn't saying much at all, it is still a bad choice for it. It's not like it is 3 Crones vs the Knight, it is the Tyranids vs the Knight + What ever other army they are playing and most people take some form of Sky Fire and that will shred the Crones quickly.

barnowl wrote:
A riptide really does not compare to a knight.Between the 4++ save, AV 13, 9 "wounds", and D melee weapon the Knight is a much much stronger unit with the ability to one shot the RIptide in melee.

The knight is not really balanced in a pre-escalation game as it is a super heavy so has to use escalation rules, and even ranged At of S10 AP1 is going to take a lot to bring it down. Far more than a 375 point model warrants. Not to mention some of the armies have no way to reliable bring 1 down in 6 turns, much less an army of 6.

Solution to Knigths with a front armor of 13... Lasscannons.... Railguns...... melta weapons... lance weapons..... ect.... do I need to go on? yes it has a 4++ save, but it can only use that on one side of it's armor a turn. So if they charge the front aim for the side or the rear.. Knights are not immortal you just have to change your attack plan.

I called your deployment stupid for putting all of your anti armour in 1 place, and not spread to the flanks.
Didnt actually call you stupid, however, your quote makes it quite clear for me


Now, if you bother to read or check, i dont just play necrons.
I do play them, and have done since the release of the 1st plastic kit of warriors.
However, ontop of that i also play nids, daemons (mono khorne and tzeentch) eldar, and i do have some tau for a small project.
Not to mention a few 1k armies for some variety and as allies.

So no, i wasnt being smug about playing necrons, and if you bothered to read half of what i wrote, you might have been a bit more clued up as to what i was saying.

Instead you chose to be selective in what you read.
I think so far ive actually posted viable ways to bring it down with most 40k armies now. (minus GK, who i dont play and know fairly little about)


So with marines, your theory is melta does not have enough range and devs lack mobility.
Who said anything about having to slog or drive?
Drop pods have been used effectively for killing alot of things that sit back.
Melta-stern have always been great for this use.

Eldar: Why are you assuming that only scatter lasers will be fired at it?
Skyshield platform with 10 reapers (exarch with fast shot and EML)
Lances are in most lists.
Fire dragons are pretty much always the "go to guys" for taking out armour.
Wraith guard are the same as above, just throw them in a wave 1st.
Or, run the wraith knight and sit back shooting at it in return?



Utilizing terrain, with a knight.
Im sorry, have you seen an actual knight model on a table?
Im guessing your talking about area terrain, or if you want to cover it, a fortress of redemption at least.

Yes, it can deploy back and shoot, but nothing is stopping you moving forward, deep striking etc.
There are a ton of ways to close the gap.
If this was not possible, how would anyone beat tau or guard?

Both players can make use of deployment, and this includes deepstriking.


I just dont see the huge deal with an AV13 (at best) vehicle that can pop a 4++ on 1 facing with 6HP.

The knight so far isnt like anything else on the table in a regular 40k game.
Trying to use the same tactics against it as you would another vehicle/walker wont do anything, so you do need to be on your toes a bit more.

The same whining came from people when the dread knight came out, then the riptide, wraith knight, now this.
Its a never ending thing.
People bitch and whine about it until they get a few games against one, then realise it is strong, but its not a game breaker.

In all honesty, i think there was a bigger issue with the release of flyers before anything really had skyfire.

Again though, its another change in the meta that people have adapted to.

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

True. Its still their choice and you can't take that choice away from them, however petty you may think their reasoning to be. This is why its important to have a well written, well balanced game. If it was balanced, fewer people would be so upset and feel that certain armies are unfair and overpowered.

This really is GW's fault for writing a pile of crap, not the customers who complain about the pile of crap.

If I want balanced ill play chess.

You may want to consider playing that game if balance is what you care about most.

Why do you bother playing with a ruleset at all then? Why not just make it up on the spot and go "pew pew pew ! you die!" instead of rolling dice and following rules. Rules give structure to a game. If those rules are poorly written and unbalanced, then its a poor game.