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Indeed, nothing stopping you. The three FW mentioned hints heavily at cad however.

I assumed someone taking strike squads isn't into deep strike shenanigans much. nothing more.

So now that you can have a proper GK only list (becuase you know, is codex: GK) people complain and try to return to codex: Inquisitorial wardbands.... i mean, the 5th ed codex
Seriously, i dont understand people

 daedalus wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I agree with NOS on everything except the PAGK.
That 4 PPM for force weapons and BoP is a steal, even if you just use it as a battery for other teams and "might come in handy" as regular power swords. where do you find 4 point power weapons for marines?
The fact its even force is just icing on top of the cake of cheap as hell power weapons and bonus warp charges.

You have to consider that there's opportunity cost between not being able to take them off to save points, and they lose access to options that are arguably (particularly now) more useful than what PAGK have available to them.

GK got butchered because the auto-take guns got nerfed? you don't even need to do anything clever with GK to be useful, just taking 3 NDK, libby and having the rest of your points into stock termies will be decent on the field due to simple 2+ saves saturation.

That's actually one of my biggest complaints.

PCs being turned into Salvo is something I'd kind of expected. I think their 5th ed rules where basicly a kind of "prototype salvo"

Ive been informed that any day BEFORE my birthday in a few day would be a bad day to buy the Grey Knight Codex. Weird. I wonder why she said that?

BrianDavion wrote:

PCs being turned into Salvo is something I'd kind of expected. I think their 5th ed rules where basicly a kind of "prototype salvo"

Yeah, I saw it coming, as did most of my group. We just hoped for better range, or something.

 anyeri wrote:
So now that you can have a proper GK only list (becuase you know, is codex: GK) people complain and try to return to codex: Inquisitorial wardbands.... i mean, the 5th ed codex
Seriously, i dont understand people

Its because pure GKs are lame. We only have...like...what? 7 different units + HQ choices & ICs and the most basic SM vehicles?

I remember 9 non-hq units off the top of my head.
Is there a real NEED for more?

I mean, look at them big space marines books, most units are variations of each other.
Bikes? pretty much upgraded assault marines.
Tac/Ass terminators? can be rolled into one unit without trouble.
Most tanks are the same thing with a different gun.

GK are an ultra-specialized anti-demon marines who focus on point-blank shooting and CC with force weapons, how many units does one NEED to represent that kind of force?

Even within the small GK book, you got units that are upgrades of each other, because there isn't anything to expand to without getting silly.

The fact C:SM is needlessly bloated does not mean GK needs to be too.

I would have wished for imperial jetbikes (if any order has access to them, it should be an elite force such as the GK) and more vehicles.

If the wolves got a flying dumpster and chariot, why cant GW be bothered to give us anything?

IoM don't know how to build jetbikes any more...

The IoM didn't know how to produce a lot of stuff... until a new codex release said they did.

 Yonan wrote:
The IoM didn't know how to produce a lot of stuff... until a new codex release said they did.

What technology that has been outright stated to be forgotten since several editions back did they introduce?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
The IoM didn't know how to produce a lot of stuff... until a new codex release said they did.

What technology that has been outright stated to be forgotten since several editions back did they introduce?

"The Dark Angels recently rediscovered a new STC database in the later years of the 40th Millennium, using its information to create advanced vehicle engines. These engines allowed the Dark Angels to design their Nephilim Jetfighter, which is still a vehicle exclusive to them and their Unforgiven Successor Chapters. The Dark Angels also possess an STC database containing the designs for weapons known as Rift Bombs that can cause fluctuations in space and time. When faced with an inquiry by the Adeptus Mechanicus amid allegations that the Chapter has illegally hoarded lost technology in contravention of Imperial law that requires all recovered technology to be handed over to the Mechanicus, the Dark Angels have adamantly denied possessing any STC databases of any kind."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Standard_Template_Construct_(STC)

There are more examples there. The Imperium rediscovering technology is not a rare thing.

True, they CAN re-discover it, but they didn't so far.

And FFS we need to have SOMETHING the IoM cant do or this is silly, one faction is currently hoarding all the cool toys anyway, and its the one that is canonically losing on pretty much every front because they are outmatched at nearly everything.and only survives thanks to the fact they are big enough to take the losses.

Oh for sure, I was just saying that them forgetting doesn't hold up as the (sole) reason to not have it. I don't think IoM should have much jet stuff either. Perhaps a little more than the one jetbike they currently have.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 anyeri wrote:
So now that you can have a proper GK only list (becuase you know, is codex: GK) people complain and try to return to codex: Inquisitorial wardbands.... i mean, the 5th ed codex
Seriously, i dont understand people

Its because pure GKs are lame. We only have...like...what? 7 different units + HQ choices & ICs and the most basic SM vehicles?

Theyre not a general purpose army, so should be more specialised.

I dont want PA bikers, PA AB, etc in a GK force. That isnt them.

You have yet to rebut a single point I made, so I presume you now accept them?

I assume you accept all the points you don't rebut too then Nos? There's been a fair few over the threads.

They were specific rebuttals to my points, that have then gone quiet

It was a genuine question, as I am trying to understand why the immense good of this codex is "dull"

Or, if we can bring in irrelevant other threads, can I point out your day one DLC mantra that was wrong?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Really? "literally"? Or do you not mean "I didnt ask for them"?

I mean there werent many GK player threads on dakka complaining about their army being outdated and lagging behind that of others.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Swords were garbage, as termies die to shooting, not CC. Everyone then, as now, takes Halberds and hammers. You still wont take Falchions, same as before.

Swords are even more garbage now for 2 reasons - one, for losing what little use they gave to terminators, and two, because the price difference to halberds is even less now.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
NO, they were underpriced. Especially the strokes, and were incredibly unfun to boot. Yay, ID T4 becoming so so much easier with hammer plus might, all at I6. Or "on a roll of a 2 lose the fight" strokes, which sucked for opponents. Brain mines werent bad, but still another clunky mechanic.

Then make them costlier. Dont flat out remove them. It destroys uniqueness and flavor. Unless of course, youre the kind of guy who says funny psychotroke grenades and radiation grenades belong in the fallout universe and not the grimdark high gothic 40k.

Sir Arun wrote:The NDK teleporter is too cheap now...almost no reason to take a knight without one.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Those points add up quickly. And if you want T1 DS, you only get two HS, and some squads really benefit from LR transports...

2 HS...thats another nerf I forgot about. Course it doesnt matter in the day and age of "throw foc out the window", does it?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
20 points isnt "out of the nose" for an assault cannon.

It is, especially if regular termies can get a CML for 5 more. You need to realize that 20 points was already set during the day and age when each to-hit roll of 6 automatically caused a wound with no armor saves possible. This was 4th edition. Assault Cannons just arent what they once were. And now they got an even tougher time exploding vehicles with their rending. 15 points is more like it.

Sir Arun wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Really? "literally"? Or do you not mean "I didnt ask for them"?

I mean there werent many GK player threads on dakka complaining about their army being outdated and lagging behind that of others.

So, not "literally" anything then.

I shelved my GK army in 6th; it wasnt amazing in 5th, but the new wound allocation results, and the even greater amount of ranged AP2+ and further nerfs to assault meant they werent fun. They needed an update, badly, to bring them in line.

Sir Arun wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Swords were garbage, as termies die to shooting, not CC. Everyone then, as now, takes Halberds and hammers. You still wont take Falchions, same as before.

Swords are even more garbage now for 2 reasons - one, for losing what little use they gave to terminators, and two, because the price difference to halberds is even less now.

Free is not more than X points. Now, if you want a better weapon, you do at least pay for it consistently cross all units.

Sir Arun wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
NO, they were underpriced. Especially the strokes, and were incredibly unfun to boot. Yay, ID T4 becoming so so much easier with hammer plus might, all at I6. Or "on a roll of a 2 lose the fight" strokes, which sucked for opponents. Brain mines werent bad, but still another clunky mechanic.

Then make them costlier. Dont flat out remove them. It destroys uniqueness and flavor. Unless of course, youre the kind of guy who says funny psychotroke grenades and radiation grenades belong in the fallout universe and not the grimdark high gothic 40k.

UNFUN. As in, 'strokes were just disgusting. Anything that shuts down an opponents unit, regardeless of specialty and with NO defence possible, is just unfun. Points are irrelevant to that argument.

I disagree with your false dichotomy.

Sir Arun wrote:

Sir Arun wrote:The NDK teleporter is too cheap now...almost no reason to take a knight without one.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Those points add up quickly. And if you want T1 DS, you only get two HS, and some squads really benefit from LR transports...

2 HS...thats another nerf I forgot about. Course it doesnt matter in the day and age of "throw foc out the window", does it?

No, its not a nerf. If you want ANYTHING thsat DS to be able to do so from turn 1, then you lose OS and HS / FA slot. Its called choice. Not a nerf. You cannot possibly call it a nerf, as T1 DS across ALL DS units was not possible in the old codex.

Sir Arun wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
20 points isnt "out of the nose" for an assault cannon.

It is, especially if regular termies can get a CML for 5 more. You need to realize that 20 points was already set during the day and age when each to-hit roll of 6 automatically caused a wound with no armor saves possible. This was 4th edition. Assault Cannons just arent what they once were. And now they got an even tougher time exploding vehicles with their rending. 15 points is more like it.

I realise that fully, and actually they were 25 then, and 30 for a CML that fired one shot, from memory. 15 is too cheap.

They cannot explode a non-open topped vehicle, they can just whittle its HP down. Like every other non-AP2/1 light anti tank weapon. Unless you think rending gives AP2 for armour pen? Thats quite a common mistake. However EVERYTHING in 7th has a harder time, this isnt just a "problem" with AC.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Or will you move on to the new one, despite the trainwreck monobuild that it is? Apart from Libby, and Dreadknight and the psilencers, pretty much everything got wrecked.

But this isnt a discussion about the GK dex itself, because there's plenty of threads on dakka already for that.

My question is - if you are a non competitive player sticking to a gaming group, are you gonna continue playing with the old dex or move on to the new one to keep with the times? Assuming you are among a circle of friends where nobody coerces you into buying the new one, that is.

I.e., are you the kind of person who voluntarily says "no man, when a codex gets old, it gets old - it is time to embrace the new", or are you the kind of guy who appreciates the old GK dex for what it is (+ errata) and votes no with his wallet regarding the new one?

Can I still play with my 3rd edition DE codex? No Venoms, No baron, no power from pain, and a crappy beast pack; but much more of how I want to play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sir Arun wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
20 points isnt "out of the nose" for an assault cannon.

It is, especially if regular termies can get a CML for 5 more. You need to realize that 20 points was already set during the day and age when each to-hit roll of 6 automatically caused a wound with no armor saves possible. This was 4th edition. Assault Cannons just arent what they once were. And now they got an even tougher time exploding vehicles with their rending. 15 points is more like it.

Have you seen what a CSM pays for a reaper autocannon? I would much rather have 4 shots with rending than 2 shots and twinlinked, even with the 36" range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
IoM don't know how to build jetbikes any more...

they dont know how to build them at a cost useful for war anymore

GKs getting jet bikes would be cool, but I think that'd be kind of a screw over for the Dark Angels, given one of their special characters is basicly the "man with the last jetbike evah!"