Best one to one fighter in 40k

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**Serg Rush**

**Wyzilla**

Deadshot wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
And Lucius defeated the most skilled duelist in the Luna Wolves legion so fast that neither Loken nor anyone else in the room realized what had happened until seconds later.

Lowballing is fun, is more or less my point.

And Sharrowkyn showed that Lucius is a cocky prick who gets his ass handed to him.

Really its all about narrative.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyzilla wrote:
ThatSwellFella wrote:
Sigismund, of course!

Can Sigismund lift several thousand tonnes and dish out punches that would sunder a Titan? Does Sigismund fly at hypersonic speeds, or toss out psychic fire capable of vaporizing people? Or cut multi-kilometer space ships in half? Because if he doesn't, he isn't the best non-Primarch fighter in 40k. When asking this question, you're better off asking who's the strongest psyker.

Black Templars have +1 to Deny the Witch rolls due to Adamantium Will .

Except deny the witch is just a game mechanic. "Actual" 40k, if a Beta or Alpha psyker decides you should die, you just roll over and die. And that's if the Alpha Psyker doesn't just blow up the planet.

You don't understand jokes do you?

BlaxicanX wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
And Lucius defeated the most skilled duelist in the Luna Wolves legion so fast that neither Loken nor anyone else in the room realized what had happened until seconds later.

Lowballing is fun, is more or less my point.

And Sharrowkyn showed that Lucius is a cocky prick who gets his ass handed to him.

Really its all about narrative.

What does that have to do with Lucius vs. Kharn?

Saying Person A beats Person B who beats Person C so therefore A beats C is not how you work out who's the best fighter. Everything's narrative based. In story X, A beats B, and in Y, B beats C easily. But in Story Z C could beat A and B with one arm behind his back and his eyes closed while doing Jagerbombs.

You have to look at the skill of the person in question. Lucius is certainly a skilled opponent but he has been slain by others numerous times. Sharrowkyn was the first, due to cockiness. Lord Commander Cyrius beat him. So have a number of others. Likely due to being cocky.

Kharn on the other hand, died atop a literal mountain of bodies at Terra. His feats were so impressive Khorne himself brought hik back from the dead. As mentioned, he son'd Erebus, who's no slouch himself, Erebus didn't even have a clue what happened, only that he was on his ass. Erebus had to teleport away because he knew he had no chance. He himself realised that Kharn was toying with him, and could kill him at any moment.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyzilla wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
Which does not help against blessings.

Blessings only effect spells directed at that target. They don't stop somebody like Dak'ir going full Super Sayain, then either bodyslamming you at hypersonic velocities so you're turned into a two dimensional piece of artwork on the ground, or from picking you up and flying into orbit and punting you into the void.

Or stopping time completely. There's always that.

What about a Blank? Come near him and n you're powers go bye-bye. Plus, you feel sick, bloated, despair, all that jazz. Culexus Assassin beats him

Again, blanks only effect attacks directed at him. There's nothing stopping Dak'ir from tossing land raiders at the Assassin from a thousand feet up in the air, or again, slamming into him at hypersonic speeds.

Basically, Dak'ir is a lite version of Superman, only with psychic abilities.

**BrotherOfBone**

koooaei wrote:
ThePrimordial wrote:
You didn't leave out Empy during the Crusade.
He'd literally squash Abaddon or Swarmy like a bug. More like a bacterial cell really.
You didn't leave out the C'tan either.

There was one ork that won emps. Only Horus's heroic intervention saved him.

The Beast, the greatest Ork warlord to have ever lived IIRC. He had a bigger Waaaaagh! than Gazghkull.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

BrotherOfBone wrote:

The Beast, the greatest Ork warlord to have ever lived IIRC. He had a bigger Waaaaagh! than Gazghkull.

Different Ork. The Beast came well after after the Horus Heresy (32nd millennium I think) and united most of the Orks of the galaxy and was only stopped at great cost to the Adeptus Astartes (and presumably lot of other people). Kind of contradicts the idea that if the Orks united they'd quickly overrun the entire galaxy.

In a straight out one-on-one fight the Ork that Horus "saved" the Emperor from would lose.

**BlaxicanX**

Deadshot wrote:
You have to look at the skill of the person in question.

Impossible to do in a vaccum, like you're doing. The skill of a warrior is gauged by the prowess of his opponents. Using your example, Kharn "dying atop a mountain of bodies" means little if we have no idea how impressive the people whom he defeated was.

Your logic is a double-standard. If Lucius getting killed "due to cockiness" is supposed to somehow invalidate all of his ridiculous feats, then why wave away Kharn getting killed by some nameless opponent on Terra, getting son'd by Loken and fighting a losing battle against Random Ultramarine Captain in Betrayer? You say that the abilities of the characters are defined by the narrative, but laud Kharn cinematically lying atop a mountain of bodies while attempting to ignore everything Lucuius has done. You laud Khorne bringing Kharn back to life as his champion while ignoring the fact that Slaanesh did the exact same thing with Lucius. Kharn defeating Erebus is somehow impressive while Lucius defeating Loken is not.

The fact of the matter is that Lucius just has better feats, and that's really all there is to it. Everything Kharn has ever done, Lucius has matched. But soloing the Phoenix Guard, speed-blitzing the Luna Wolve's greatest swordsman and taking on entire squads of enemies by himself while doing goofy gak like using his off-hand or standing on one leg just to make the fight more fair is simply more impressive than anything Kharn has ever done.

**Ashiraya**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
BrotherOfBone wrote:

The Beast, the greatest Ork warlord to have ever lived IIRC. He had a bigger Waaaaagh! than Gazghkull.

Different Ork. The Beast came well after after the Horus Heresy (32nd millennium I think) and united most of the Orks of the galaxy and was only stopped at great cost to the Adeptus Astartes (and presumably lot of other people). Kind of contradicts the idea that if the Orks united they'd quickly overrun the entire galaxy.

In a straight out one-on-one fight the Ork that Horus "saved" the Emperor from would lose.

The Beast? Any post-heresy Orks are absolute jokes next to the monstrosities faced by the Great Crusade.

The Wolf of Ash and Fire wrote:The Emperor fought an armoured giant twice his height and breadth. Its skull was a vast, iron-helmed boulder with elephantine tusks and chisel-like teeth that gleamed dully. Its eyes were coal-red slits of such vicious intelligence that it stole Horus’s breath.
Horus had never seen its equal. No bestiary would include its description for fear of being ridiculed, no magos of the Mechanicum would accept such a specimen could exist.
Six clanking, mechanised limbs bolted through its flesh bore grinding, crackling, sawing, snapping, flame-belching weapons of murder. The Emperor’s armour was burning, the golden wreath now ashes around his neck.
Chugging rotor cannons battered the Emperor’s armour even as claws of lightning tore portions of it away. It was taking every screed of the Emperor’s warrior skill and psychic might to keep the mech-warlord’s weaponry from killing him.
‘Father!’ shouted Horus.
The greenskin turned and saw Horus. It saw the desperation in his face and laughed. A fist like a Reductor siege hammer smashed the Emperor’s sword aside and a fist of green flesh lifted him into the air. It crushed the life from him with its inhuman power.

‘No!’ yelled Horus, battering his way through the last of the greenskins to reach his father’s side. The Mech-Warlord turned his spinal weapons on Horus, and a blistering series of lightning strikes hammered the walkway.
Horus dodged them all, a wolf on the hunt amid the ash and fire of the world’s ending. He had no weapon, and where that wasn’t normally a handicap to a warrior of the Legions, against this foe it was a definite disadvantage.
No weapon of his would hurt this beast anyway.
But one of its own…

Horus gripped one of the warlord’s mechanised arms, one bearing the spinning brass spheres and crackling tines of its lightning weapon. The arm’s strength was prodigious, but centimetre by centimetre Horus forced it around.

Lightning blasted from the weapon, burning Horus’s hands black. Bone gleamed through the ruin of his flesh, but what was that pain when set against the loss of a father?
With one last herculean effort, Horus wrenched the arm up as a sawing blast of white-edged lightning erupted from the weapon. A searing burst of fire impacted on the Mech-Warlord’s forearm and the limb exploded from the elbow down in a welter of blackened bone and boiling blood. The beast grunted in surprise, dropping the Emperor and staring in dumb fascination at the ruin of its arm.

Seizing the chance he had been given, the Emperor bent low and surged upwards with his bluesteel sword extended. The tip ripped into the Mech-Warlord’s belly and burst from its back in a shower of sparks.
‘Now you die,’ said the Emperor, and ripped his blade up.
It was an awful, agonising, mortal wound. Electrical fire vented from hideous metal organs within the wreckage of the greenskin’s body.

Horus felt the build up of colossal psychic energies and shielded his eyes as a furious light built within the Emperor. Power like nothing he had ever seen his father wield, or even suspected he possessed. All consuming, all powerful, it was the power to extinguish life in every sphere of its existence. Physical flesh turned to ash before it and what ancient faiths had once called a soul was burned out of existence, never to cohere again.

If any Ork should be nominated, it's this one. Twice the height and width of the Emperor? Even Ghazghkull is tiny next to this monster.

**Deadshot**

There is no evidence that the Emperor was bigger or taller than a mortal man. He could be the average height of 6'2.

That said, assuming the Emperor rivaled the Primarchs for size, this thing can barely be classified as an ork. Its more like a Deff Dread with its 6 mechanical armours and artificial organs.

**Furyou Miko**

The emperor has been stated in several places to tower over Magnus the Red, who was the biggest of the Primarchs.

The Emperor is basically an incubus though - he looks like what you would think the Emperor should look like.

**Deadshot**

Furyou Miko wrote:
The emperor has been stated in several places to tower over Magnus the Red, who was the biggest of the Primarchs.

The Emperor is basically an incubus though - he looks like what you would think the Emperor should look like.

Where?

**Furyou Miko**

Deadshot wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:
The emperor has been stated in several places to tower over Magnus the Red, who was the biggest of the Primarchs.

The Emperor is basically an incubus though - he looks like what you would think the Emperor should look like.

Where?

Wolf of Ash and Fire, A Thousand Sons, and Horus Rising talk of him in relation to the Primarchs.

Mechanicum places him next to an Imperial Knight Paladin, and has him kneel to place his hand upon its knee and heal it.

**Ashiraya**

Deadshot wrote:

That said, assuming the Emperor rivaled the Primarchs for size, this thing can barely be classified as an ork. Its more like a Deff Dread with its 6 mechanical armours and artificial organs.

It is indeed an Ork, and arguably the strongest, largest, mightiest and most Orky Ork to have ever lived. The Great Crusade was an era where there was significantly less war going on despite the crusade itself, so the Ork had simply lived for longer, fought longer, and been growing for longer.

Imagine the damage such a monstrosity would do in M41. He could unite every Ork in the galaxy if news of him spread that far.

The Great Crusade, the age of colossal Orks, Primarchs, Eldar soon after the fall (and thus where they haven't had time to decline as much as they have in M41) and so on, is like Greek mythology, whereas 40K is like Greek history!

**Deadshot**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:
The emperor has been stated in several places to tower over Magnus the Red, who was the biggest of the Primarchs.

The Emperor is basically an incubus though - he looks like what you would think the Emperor should look like.

Where?

Wolf of Ash and Fire, A Thousand Sons, and Horus Rising talk of him in relation to the Primarchs.

Mechanicum places him next to an Imperial Knight Paladin, and has him kneel to place his hand upon its knee and heal it.

I don't remember HR very well in regards to the Emperor but I haven't read the others. Fair enough.

**kitch102**

I'd have to give it to any one of the multitudes of flora and fauna on catachan

**Void__Dragon**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Not counting the best dudes, Lucius is probably the best fighter. Comparing him to at least Kharn, he has vastly more impressive combat feats.

Like having a tough fight against Erebus. Who Kharn son'd so hard that he was bored doing it.
Sure, and casually stomping Loken, who beat Kharn.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Void__Dragon wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Not counting the best dudes, Lucius is probably the best fighter. Comparing him to at least Kharn, he has vastly more impressive combat feats.

Like having a tough fight against Erebus. Who Kharn son'd so hard that he was bored doing it.
Sure, and casually stomping Loken, who beat Kharn.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Void__Dragon wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
Not counting the best dudes, Lucius is probably the best fighter. Comparing him to at least Kharn, he has vastly more impressive combat feats.

Like having a tough fight against Erebus. Who Kharn son'd so hard that he was bored doing it.
Sure, and casually stomping Loken, who beat Kharn.

Now you're just lying to support your bias.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Furyou Miko wrote:
The emperor has been stated in several places to tower over Magnus the Red, who was the biggest of the Primarchs.

Where?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Furyou Miko wrote:

Wolf of Ash and Fire, A Thousand Sons, and Horus Rising talk of him in relation to the Primarchs.

Mechanicum places him next to an Imperial Knight Paladin, and has him kneel to place his hand upon its knee and heal it.

Neither A Thousand Sons nor Horus Rising state that the Emperor is taller than Magnus. Or any Primarch.

The First Heretic explicitly states Magnus was taller than the Emperor.

The Emperor also didn't have to kneel to place his hand upon the Knight's knee. The Knight also explicitly had to look down to look upon the Emperor.

**dusara217**

Somehow almost everybody has forgotten the badass who never lost a fight, not even against the most powerful Khornate Daemon in 40k the Sanguinor would kick everyone's groins so hardd his sword would come out their throats. I dont thnk thats physically possible, but you get my point.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Furyou Miko wrote:
The emperor has been stated in several places to tower over Magnus the Red, who was the biggest of the Primarchs.

The Emperor is basically an incubus though - he looks like what you would think the Emperor should look like.

Stop arguing about the Emprah's size. this guy excplicitly stated that the Emprah is as tall as you think he should be

**Wyzilla**

dusara217 wrote:
Somehow almost everybody has forgotten the badass who never lost a fight, not even against the most powerful Khornate Daemon in 40k the Sanguinor would kick everyone's groins so hardd his sword would come out their throats. I dont thnk thats physically possible, but you get my point.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Furyou Miko wrote:
The emperor has been stated in several places to tower over Magnus the Red, who was the biggest of the Primarchs.

The Emperor is basically an incubus though - he looks like what you would think the Emperor should look like.

Stop arguing about the Emprah's size. this guy excplicitly stated that the Emprah is as tall as you think he should be

Even the Sanguinor would lose to Dak'ir- he's that bloody insane. Hold on, I'll look for the section in the Salamanders Omnibus where he cuts a ship in half and flies through space at hypersonic speeds.

**Bobthehero**

Can we pretend that didn't happen, ever? If people are so willing to dismiss Draigo fluff, there's no reason to put up with that kind of crap.

**Wyzilla**

Bobthehero wrote:
Can we pretend that didn't happen, ever? If people are so willing to dismiss Draigo fluff, there's no reason to put up with that kind of crap.

Well the Draigo stuff got retconned and nerfed, so it's not like it's even a problem anymore.

Besides, if not for Dak'ir, there's numerous other hilariously overpowered psykers, because that's what psykers do. Either that or ghosts like the Legion of the Damned, who are immortal intangible killing machines that can phase through stuff Necron-style and lack bodies to kill.

**Deadshot**

Bobthehero wrote:
Can we pretend that didn't happen, ever? If people are so willing to dismiss Draigo fluff, there's no reason to put up with that kind of crap.

Can we please ignore it in the effect of this thread too? If Primarchs are out them this guy should go too.

**Wyzilla**

Deadshot wrote:
Bobthehero wrote:
Can we pretend that didn't happen, ever? If people are so willing to dismiss Draigo fluff, there's no reason to put up with that kind of crap.

Can we please ignore it in the effect of this thread too? If Primarchs are out them this guy should go too.

Except then we fall into a cycle of having to keep banning combatants. If we remove Dak'ir, there's still psykers in general, who can do fun stuff like stop time, phase through objects, instantly murder guys with biomancy, etc. But if we ban them, then we'll have to get rid of daemons and ghosts like the Legion of the Damned, who can tell reality to screw itself, teleport, and phase through objects. But if we ban them, we'll also probably have to ban almost all Necron units, as they also can phase through objects, ignore armor, teleport, cause insta-death, etc. But if we ban them, then we'll have to ban Phoenix Lords, as they can fight entire world-swallowing armies single handily and win, or take on Greater Daemons and curbstomp them. But if we ban them, then we'll have to ban Obliterators too, who are nigh immortal, have wolvering regeneration, and are armed with virtually every weapon in history.

Etc.

**Furyou Miko**

So, with the exception of the Emperor, the Primarchs, Da'kir, Draigo and Ephrael Stern, who's the greatest one on one combatant in the 40k universe?

**Wyzilla**

Furyou Miko wrote:
So, with the exception of the Emperor, the Primarchs, Da'kir, Draigo and Ephrael Stern, who's the greatest one on one combatant in the 40k universe?

Probably either one the numerous loyalist or traitor Astartes Psykers. Either that or the Swarmlord.

Although come to think of it, there's a surprising lack of Solitaire in this thread. Those guys fight Greater Daemons for fun and win. There's also Maugan Ra, who's motherfething Maugan Ra.

**Furyou Miko**

Phoenix Lords are probably exempt as the xeno equivalent of a primarch, and Solitaires are harlequins, saying they 'do it for fun' is like saying 'The Joker likes a laugh'.

**Wyzilla**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Phoenix Lords are probably exempt as the xeno equivalent of a primarch, and Solitaires are harlequins, saying they 'do it for fun' is like saying 'The Joker likes a laugh'.

**dusara217**

This thread was supposed to be about the best solo combatant in 40k, you can't keep banning people just because they are epicly powerful.

**Furyou Miko**

... don't explain the joke, dusara.

**Bharring**

Well, if we paid any attention to game rules, any random Vindicare Assassin is better at swordplay than Jain Zar (higher WS)...

Phoenix Lords aren't like primarchs in that Primarchs were made that way, whereas Phoenix Lords are that way because of their dedication and skill.

**Deadshot**

dusara217 wrote:
This thread was supposed to be about the best solo combatant in 40k, you can't keep banning people just because they are epicly powerful.

In which case, Gork and Mork or Khorne win. Game over.

**Wyzilla**

Bharring wrote:
Well, if we paid any attention to game rules, any random Vindicare Assassin is better at swordplay than Jain Zar (higher WS)...

Phoenix Lords aren't like primarchs in that Primarchs were made that way, whereas Phoenix Lords are that way because of their dedication and skill.

And in the case of Maugan Ra, staggering amounts of badassery. Like the meme I made, in the quip of Maugan Ra taking out an entire Tyranid fleet by himself, there is no mention of him having a space ship. Presumably he hitched a ride on a tyranid flyer and rode it into space.

**Furyou Miko**

Or he just webway blipped around, since he can ignore the rules of outnumbering and power/ammunition limits, so why not metaphysics as well?